Helen Brach & Joe Plemmens

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>goldy
Working Hunter
Posted Sep. 14, 2005 12:29 AM
I am sorry </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For all of you who would like proper spelling I meant murderer! Also in the future if I slow down in my writings I might show you I can create paragraphs properly sometimes. I should take a course on writing because I have about 2 books going on in my head right now that I could write.I have no doubt they could both be best sellers with someones help!

 One of my books will be a verzion of the 3 stooges, A pathological liar, a reporter and the agency who helps them!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Cindeye:
Are you suggesting that sparrows are migratory? (pronounced my-GRATE-ory) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but I am suggesting that coconuts migrate.

Clip clop, clip clop, clip clop.

The Spilatroe"s would of never involed themselves with all these people in a murder. Anyone who really knows about them knows they were pros at murder.If you know about these steel mills there is not much of a chance that Helen was brought there and knowone saw her. The Former Skokie Police Seargent who Joe says mudered her never met Joe, Helen or Matlick. They only tried to make their story look better. They brought a supposed bad cop to frame Jayne and Matlick easier. If you read everything about The Jayne Gang they say that Silas often paid off cops. They figured people would believe that Frank Jayne does the same. The only problem is writers want to sel more books and the often exagerate and sensationlize alot.Even if you assume all the stories about Silas are true that does not mean Frank Jayne was the same. The stories about the cop hidding in Mexico and just comming in in 2003 to pick up his ailing wife and that was the last time he was in town is a big lie. In 2003 he was in chicago for 4 months and has been in Chicago every year.He has also been audited. The Feds know this and alowed Gowdy to lie to all of you or maybe he just does not care to follow any of his information up. Much more more bad info was repoted to you by the holy reporter!

Ya know I don’t know who Gene O’Shea is, but if you guys haven’t read this - you should.

http://www.ipsn.org/news/blood_feud_by_gene_oshea.htm

And if any of that stuff is true, you have to wonder about Plemmons story - I mean $350K to $750K for a hit was a heck of a lot more than the $20K - $30K Si was spending to knock off is brother around the 1970 timeframe. And that money was for just one guy. According to Plemmons, there were 10 people involved - including at least one who is now a convicted multiple murderer. That was one expensive hit for one little old lady.

Oh and Glimmerglass - I don’t think anyone left on this thread thinks any of these players are Snow White. I would just like to see these published ABC7 stories hold up under their own weight a bit better.

SCFarm

" Now there you go again" I have been totally up front at the beginning. I had no plan you would play that hard!i TOLD YOU A COUPLE DAYS AGO THAT i LIVE MY LIFE WITH INTRGITY! i CAN NOT HELP THAT ALL OF YOU THINK IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOMEONE TO ALL OF A SUDDEN COME ALONG AND KNOWS MUCH MORE THAN YOU ABOUT tHE joke of an investgaion of helen brach. Maybe you want to continue to stick with these lies. I learned along time ago be real careful in trusting con men, repoters and the Feds!I am a very honest person and from the bottom of my heart I thought you might really want to know the truth. By the way many of you have great wit and sense of humor!!! I also been spiting on my computer screen. Thanks soo much!!!

goldy, it’s really a simple question…WHAT is your favorite color?!

You really suck toenails at this 20 questions game…

Hmmm 5pm east coast, isn’t that dinner time in the Rock?

Geeesh goldylox, all ya have to do is google search and voila up comes the answers. Even court docs are available…

Boy Snowbird, you nailed it on that one!!! Free nursing.

Queasy during my reasearch and readings and articles about the Jayne gang I feel that things have been over exagerated. Even if you assume everything that was said about Silas that does not mean all of the Jaynes are like that. Some people do learn from their past ways and become better people. I am just pointimg out a similarity in how people could be framed in the past. If the feds have a 90 percent success rate after indicting people, it seems they are getting innocent and guilty people behing bars. Look at the amount of old time mobsters they have currently indicted.Most of their murders go back over 20 + years. The Feds seem to be greatly abusing their new powers. I would bet some of those indictments are suspicious as bad as some of these mobsters are!I am just saying if too many people do not care if some innocent people are destroyed and people become numrb to to these Nazi Germany tatics that are sometimes used and no one speaks up or cares who is ever going to know how far this will go in the future. Our freedoms might not be there for future generations. I to you the timing of Steven Manning the Ex Chicago cop could not have been better to shed light on abuses. A man put on death row for 8 years and totally innocent just because some FBI agents did not like the way he was doing things. Being awarded 6.5 million against 2 FBI agents has sent a big message because he will probably get more against the FBI. Some juries and people do care and this jury is attempting to send our country a big message!!! That this kind of behavior post Nazi Germany is not right.

how the heck do you guys stay up so late?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>friend told me about this BB last night–I am reading a answering as I go. I had horses at Northwestern stables for years–I’m 65 and know all the players. Snowbird you obviously did not see the taped interview of Joe Plemmons on ABC Channel 7–I did–he at no time said he shot Helen in the head twice–Furthermore he never even said he shot her. You can buy a tape from ABC news Chicago. No where in any interview taped or otherwice does he say that! I’m only on page six–I’m sure you will hear from me again.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Sep. 04, 2005 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ya I trust your memory!!!

well i guess its 5:00 somewhere

THE WORLD WE HAVE MADE as a result of the level of thinking we have done thus far, creates problems we cannot solve at the same level of thinking at which we created them. Albert Einstein

Disclaimer - I never read Hot Blood, nor any of the previous threads here about Helen. And I am just a bit too young to remember any of the original media coverage. Don’t even ask me how I fell into this thread!

I do have to wonder if the plan went awry when Helen’s accountant was denied control of her finances by the court and it went to the 3rd party (well respected) and uninvolved lawyer for three years.

Part of me also wonders though why someone couldn’t arrange to “find” the body at an appropriate time - if there were a body left to find. This is a bit curious to me. I can just imagine that conversation! “Ya had to incinerate it didn’t you! - Well, you thought it was a great idea at the time, too! - How was I supposed to know we’d need it? - Never think ahead, do you you you idiot! - Well, you ain’t any smarter than I am, ya know.”

lyrical - Tell Cold Case I’ll take the job if they can find me a reliable stall mucker. But come to think of it, that’s when I dream up all this nonsense.

Seriously though, if the body that was found (ala Goldy’s post) was indeed Helen’s, then it would seriously impact my idea of what happened. He didn’t mention when it was found, just that it was before DNA testing was available. So, if a body could have been “produced” at any given point in time - How would that have affected the money trail, the other trials and the related cases being persued by the powers that be?

SCFarm

He did horses for many including Bailey and Jayne. I will not go into it now but in some legal docs the Feds accuse my Dad of doing something for Bailey that they said they had proof of payment. That is another of there lies that we uncovered. The money my Father got from Bailey was for shoeing horses and we have witness’s that will testify to this.This is one of the many sick lies the Feds planned on using in a trial after Joe’s plan went into effect.I realize you wanting to know everything but I must keep a few aces up my sleeve. These people have put alot of work at creating these SICK LIES so being realistic what else are they capable of? I feel the man thing is to prove what has been done lately in The Helen Brach Investigation is a total DISGRACE they planned on killing or putting my Dad away for life of THERE LIES!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Party Rose:
I too smell a troll… </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And what might that smell be?

Hi David, I thiought I would tell you one more thing. I talked to someone you know who I have known for about 20 years who I love and trust and he had very good things to say about you! I will not say his name for obvious reasons but he worked with you maybe at your last job. I told him how pleased I was with your last stories about this case. Things are looking great in regards to these lie and I must admit I feel like we can not take a chance and think that things are fine when we know what these people are capable of. I am on a mission if it takes the rest of my life to clear my Father who I love and also this mission is to keep America a wonderful country that I can be proud of!! This has been my mission for the last 6 months. This is a very scary position I found myself in but I would never forgive myself if I let them put my Father away for something he did not do! I will never forget one morning not to long ago talking to my Dad and he had recieved information from his Lawyer and he said to me in a way I can not explain in words “They really want me” I felt so bad that anyone could be so cruel to do what has been happening to him.David the person I know who knows you is the same as me and being honest is the most important thing in are lives! I would rather die in Hell than to be the one who tells the lies that have been told about my father! All the Best!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Guess you’ll have to start paying more attention. I never asked where you were going or what you were doing… </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Trust me…this guy would be lucky to know his own name…come to think of it, what is that?

I don’t recall Goldy saying he was a BNT - only that he was in the business and we would know “who he was”. So if he is the SGT’s son, then yeah - we would know. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to prove someone DIDN’T do something - which is why our justice system works the way it does. And if the papers, et.al. have ceased and desisted using his father’s name, then it becomes difficult to sue them.

So the only way to really clear the SGT is to solve the mystery. Heck, most people are pretty sure that OJ did it - even though he was acquitted.

I would still recommend following the Brach money. 20 million in 1984 money is a big chunk of change. And various folks were in control of it a various times. Even if it was completely divied up, I understand most of it was in trusts. Someone was managing those large trusts and doling it out. Just plain interest back in the 80s would easily earn 10% per year on a regular savings acct. You can’t tell me it wasn’t invested and managed. How easy to skim a huge chunk off of that! And what a great opportunity to launder cash.

I did a quick search on the Helen Brock Foundation - and the info is sketchy at best. They ain’t paid out much of that!

ok, Goldy, NOW you have our attention! And I, for one, believe your story.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>The other thing that is of significant intrest to me is the four other unsolved murders that precede Helen Brach’s. It does occur to me that since they did get a conviction, albeit 40 years later, for the murders of the three young boys in 1955 - they may still have hopes of solving and prosecuting these. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they were trying to use Plemmons testimony they way they used it for the trials of Jayne and Hansen, I think the feds would not have let him make those statements to the press. He always had a credibility problem as a witness, but after his latest “confession” I would think his credibility would be shot completely in a court of law. They may be eyeing those cold cases, but why sacrifice the Plemmons card the way they did, before putting their case together?

What I am trying to do, LLDM, albiet slowly, is to build a convincing argument that Plemmons has been an FBI and ATF patsy over the years, using his inside knowledge of the Jayne gang et al, as a sort of ATM machine for himself. Whenever things get a little sticky for him, he pulls out a few memories from his bank, and agrees to testify to keep himself out of jail. Thus far, it has worked remarkably well. He gives the feds what they want, and they give him what he needs. Remember, there was no real evidence linking Hansen to the murders of the boys, only testimony from the likes of Plemmons, Spry and a couple of other questionable characters. None of the testimony could be corroborated independently, and all of it relied on the memories of the witnesses from conversations and events that happened years ago. There is little doubt, however, that Hansen was the murderer, and he was found guilty after both trials and verdict has withstood the appeal process. Plemmons has a long history of testifying at the right moment to help himself out.

So, if we agree with that assumption, we have to figure that Plemmons must be in a h*ll of a lot of hot water now, to come forward with this “new” testimony. And anyone who thinks he is doing it because of his “guilty conscience” may leave the room at this time.

What if, the feds have a bunch of charges against Plemmons that may be bigger than the usual fraud etc, but may be a little shakey in the evidence department. They could prosecute, and it would mess the high life in Wellington up a little bit, whether they get the indictment or not. What if the feds felt they needed to have some closure on the Brach case (someone plans to run for public office, is up for a promotion, etc,) Deal is, Plemmons “closes” the case for them, there is not enough evidence against the others to indict anyone, Plemmons has been given immunity, the courts won’t buy Plemmon’s crap and Jayne isn’t getting a “get out of jail free card”, so where’s the harm? Plemmons implicates himself, and a bit player in the actual murder, which leaves the other 8 or so, as accomplices. The feds can’t take this “new” information anywhere, because it isn’t corroborated and Plemmons has no credibility left anyway. Everyone wins…Except of course, Goldy and his family.