Help for Friend Who Wants to Breed Mares

[Dewey]

I have a friend who owns a few nice mares, one TB and two QH. He is a very enthusiastic owner who loves the horses. I ride the two QHs for him. He doesn’t have much experience with horses but is learning as fast as he can, and he’s wonderful to ride for.

My concern is that he has a fixed idea that by breeding one or more of the mares to a big-name QH sire, he is going to make money. He thinks the foals will have a lot of value just because of the name of their sire. He boards the mares at a h/j stable now, but he plans on taking them to his own place after they are bred. He has some fenced-in pasture but no barn. I am very, very concerned for several reasons: 1) he has no experience with breeding and wants to take the mares from the boarding place to save money; 2) He has no idea that the foals will not be worth much, no matter how fancy their sire, unless they are trained and showing.

I have hesitated to advise him because while I have a lot of experience in riding and working with horses, I have no experience with breeding. I have read enough on this forum, though, to realize that he is taking huge risks with his mares’ safety and that even if all goes well with the breeding and foaling, he is probably going to lose rather than make money.

I am asking for good sources to guide him toward that will educate him on the actual costs of breeding and what he needs to do to prepare. He plans on breeding two of the mares this coming spring. Help!

[pony_grandma]

Explore the sticky threads on the top of the opening page of this forum. All kinds of information about the risks, knowledge that you need, pitfalls and costs of breeding!! Start forwarding that to him.

[Dewey]

Thank you. I did look through some of that material, and I found several helpful threads about health-related issues. While this is partly what I want, what I am primarily looking for is some straight talk about the actual costs of breeding, raising, and training a foal for sale. I don’t really want to forward him discussion threads from the forum–I’d rather give him links to articles as I think that will carry more weight.

He thinks breeding his mares is an easy way to make money. I want him to realize first that raising, training, and selling a horse is likely to cost him a lot of money, and he may or may not get it back when then young horse is sold. If he still persists in wanting to breed his mares, then I’d like to give him info on vet care, risks, etc.

[Char]

Do a search on Craigslist and some of the popular sale sites for horses, using the name of the stud he has in mind.

Try to find some offspring that have no training, and see what they’re going for. Then print out the ads and show them to him.

That outta be an eye opener…:eek:

[Dewey]

I’ll try it.

I’m still looking for some kind of list of actual costs for breeding and raising a youngster to the point where it will sell.

[smokygirl]

Depends on so many factors. If he manages to get his hands on say, Topsail Whiz semen… he could breed it to a goat and it would be marketable. Depending on the area he is going for, sometimes QHs sell better young, bc the people are looking for them for the futurities.

if he breeds it to Ibn Bint I have a good name 30 generations back, it won’t be until training.

[TrinitySporthorses]

Show him the stud fee on some of the top QHs- 10,000 to $50k !!!

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=TrinitySporthorses;5958592]
Show him the stud fee on some of the top QHs- 10,000 to $50k !!![/QUOTE]

The one he wants to use isn’t that much. He has researched the stud fee but nothing beyond that.

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=smokygirl;5958550]
Depends on so many factors. If he manages to get his hands on say, Topsail Whiz semen… he could breed it to a goat and it would be marketable. Depending on the area he is going for, sometimes QHs sell better young, bc the people are looking for them for the futurities.

if he breeds it to Ibn Bint I have a good name 30 generations back, it won’t be until training.[/QUOTE]

Well, I don’t know much about QH showing or breeding. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut.

[smokygirl]

[QUOTE=Dewey;5958611]
Well, I don’t know much about QH showing or breeding. Maybe I should just keep my mouth shut.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, the big money in Reining, racing, barrels, pleasure, etc, is still mostly in the young horses

But, as we said… depends on the big name. There is going to be a huge difference between breeding to Hollywood Dun It (if you can find some frozen) and breeding to say, Dun It With A Twist (still living) as well.

I would advise him to find a mentor in the discipline he likes. Too many “okay” bred Quarters out their. Unless he’s got exceptional mares, and is breeding to outstanding stallions… they are a dime a dozen.

[SuperSTB]

Or ask breeders to show him their vet bills of medical problems.

Many years ago, when the market was good, I considered partnering in horse breeding with someone. Yeah, I showed her some examples of cost involved and yikes it was like watching a cartoon running for the hills. (I felt it prudent to be realistic.)

I included the little tidbit that I need to ‘prove’ the breeding by showing/competing as well as the straight up costs involved.

You couldn’t make money with marginal breeding many years ago and you certainly can’t do it now. Unless of course you cut the corners at the expense of the horses…

[RyTimMick]

In the QH world, big money only goes for breedings out of good mares. It is the same everywhere. I have a QH mare for myself that is 100% foundation, unknown sire (Blackburn Line) out of a Mr. San Peppy/Poco mare. I asked a couple top reiners if they would like to see a foal out of her, and they said," Only because we know she is a good mare" and they said they might pay what the stud fee was for the foal. Not worth it for me.

In my Holsteiner life, I budget 4,500 for the cost of producing a registered foal. Your friend will have to expect much the same, even on the cheap. If he can’t sell the foals (because they aren’t selling much these days) they start to cost more. If he is willing to swallow that, then at least he is being reasonable. Then ask him if he has ever seen the mother, sister, brother, or grandmother of his mares. If he hasn’t he will have no idea how they will breed. So they be worth noting.

Tim

[misita]

You should refer him to some of the QH auction sites. I was watching an auction on TV and the foals were going for $500 to $1,200. One lovely colt was by a stallion with a $25,000 stud fee. I think they sold him for $1,200.

If you can google and find some of these QH auctions, that might open his eyes really quick!

As for breeding costs and fees to get a weanling ready to sell, I would say between $1,500 and $2,500 not including the stud fee. And that’s if nothing goes wrong.

There’s also a local farm by me where the woman has about 20 QH’s and she couldn’t even sell the foals for $500. She’s not breeding at all anymore and just taking care of the herd remaining.

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=SuperSTB;5958652]
Or ask breeders to show him their vet bills of medical problems.

Many years ago, when the market was good, I considered partnering in horse breeding with someone. Yeah, I showed her some examples of cost involved and yikes it was like watching a cartoon running for the hills. (I felt it prudent to be realistic.)

I included the little tidbit that I need to ‘prove’ the breeding by showing/competing as well as the straight up costs involved.

You couldn’t make money with marginal breeding many years ago and you certainly can’t do it now. Unless of course you cut the corners at the expense of the horses…[/QUOTE]

This is what I was afraid of. You say you showed her some examples of the costs involved? Can you give me more detail?

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=misita;5958799]
You should refer him to some of the QH auction sites. I was watching an auction on TV and the foals were going for $500 to $1,200. One lovely colt was by a stallion with a $25,000 stud fee. I think they sold him for $1,200.

If you can google and find some of these QH auctions, that might open his eyes really quick!

As for breeding costs and fees to get a weanling ready to sell, I would say between $1,500 and $2,500 not including the stud fee. And that’s if nothing goes wrong.

There’s also a local farm by me where the woman has about 20 QH’s and she couldn’t even sell the foals for $500. She’s not breeding at all anymore and just taking care of the herd remaining.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the auction suggestion. I will definitely look into that.

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=RyTimMick;5958747]
In the QH world, big money only goes for breedings out of good mares. It is the same everywhere. I have a QH mare for myself that is 100% foundation, unknown sire (Blackburn Line) out of a Mr. San Peppy/Poco mare. I asked a couple top reiners if they would like to see a foal out of her, and they said," Only because we know she is a good mare" and they said they might pay what the stud fee was for the foal. Not worth it for me.

In my Holsteiner life, I budget 4,500 for the cost of producing a registered foal. Your friend will have to expect much the same, even on the cheap. If he can’t sell the foals (because they aren’t selling much these days) they start to cost more. If he is willing to swallow that, then at least he is being reasonable. Then ask him if he has ever seen the mother, sister, brother, or grandmother of his mares. If he hasn’t he will have no idea how they will breed. So they be worth noting.

Tim[/QUOTE]

The two mares he wants to breed this spring have both been bred before, but not by him. The TB has been bred to warmbloods (Swedish, I think); I saw two of the offspring and they are OK, nothing spectacular. Both were at the barn where I ride to be trained and sold. The QH mare is nice IMO, well trained in hunt seat. He adores this mare, but I suspect she is worth much more to him than to big-time QH people. He wants to breed both to a HUS sire. I know nothing about QH bloodlines, so I can’t judge the future foals’ probable value.

My own feeling is that if he wants to breed his “heart mare,” that is fine, but that he should go into it with his eyes open and not to make money. He should also be aware of the risks, which he is glossing over.

[crosscreeksh]

In our part of the country - Oklahoma - “good bred”, registered QH babies sell most days of the week at various sales for $75 to $150 - no more. The horse market is flooded with QH babies!! Very sad!!

[pony_grandma]

There are many cost of breeding threads. I did a search on them. One had a post on it of a nice price layout of ALL the costs of breeding. I can’t find the particular one that I remember having seen. If I can find it I’ll post it. Many here probably are also familiar with the threads of past.

[Dewey]

[QUOTE=pony grandma;5959260]
There are many cost of breeding threads. I did a search on them. One had a post on it of a nice price layout of ALL the costs of breeding. I can’t find the particular one that I remember having seen. If I can find it I’ll post it. Many here probably are also familiar with the threads of past.[/QUOTE]

That would be great–thank you!

[YankeeLawyer]

As the saying goes…How do you make $1,000,000 in the horse business? Start with $10,000,000.

Never invest in anything that eats while you sleep.