Help for the anxious "bi-polar" horse

[Obsidian_Fire]

I have a 23 y/o OTTB gelding who is retired. He has what I call “meltdowns”, for lack of a better word. These are not new, but they are random. No apparent rhyme or reason to them. No changes in his world.

I show up in the morning to feed, to find him frantically nickering at me, pacing his stall, not eating, and desperate to get out. I will put him in the arena, let him roll and blow off steam, and a bit later put him back in his stall to eat while I ride my mare. Generally this works. Generally these episodes are over that quickly.

But not yesterday. He tried to kick his stall down while I rode, and still refused to eat. Once turned out, he seemed fine. Brought him in last night and he was not fine. Pacing, refusing to eat, anxious. I ace’d him lightly hoping if I took the edge off he’d settle and get past whatever is bothering him.

I don’t know how to help him. I don’t understand why he’s doing this. I’ve had him for about 5 1/2 years and altho he’s always been the ‘sensitive’ sort, these episodes are happening more frequently.

His routine, and that of our barn, has not changed. He still has the same neighbors, etc. It’s not a matter of not getting along with someone. He has the same feed, and it’s tummy friendly.
He gets ‘safe’ turnout in the arena daily to blow off steam before going outside (where it’s muddy and nasty).

These episodes are not new. Just the frequency seems to be increasing.

I need ideas on how to help him.

[Simkie]

Is he on any of the calming supplements? I like Seroquine and find it effective. It’s not sedating, but allows a reactive, anxious horse some time to think before having a big unnecessary blowup. Best price is usually either Horse.com or State Line Tack.

I’ve also used valerian to help with herd bound ridiculousness. One of these with dinner might help. I’ve given as much as twice daily (breakfast, dinner) + directly before “exciting” things happening.

Ulcers might also be worth ruling out. Even though his feed is tummy friendly, his episodes alone might be enough to bother his belly and start some ulcers.

Best of luck. I wonder if he might be seeing something outside? Wildlife really interests all of mine, and there are a LOT of things to look at lately.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Simkie, I have in the past had him on Divine Equine (has Valerian) and never noticed any difference. I am contemplating raspberry leaves.
As for ulcers, I have treated them ad nauseum, both fore and hind. Now that he’s retired and hasn’t been showing in years… I dunno. I won’t say no, for sure.
The main reason he’s retired is that he’s a black hole money pit, no matter what I do. :no: I can’t leave him out 24/7 or he tries to kill himself, he actually does love his stall (usually), and his companions - ALL of them, are very chill. You’d think it would rub off.
:sigh:

[Simkie]

I wasn’t able to turn up just how much valerian is in that supplement…do you know? The stuff I’m using is cheap and might be worth a shot. Give him 1-2 caps with dinner and see if that helps?

Nexium is also super economical!

Isn’t it the magnesium in raspberry leaves that helps chill them out? Straight up MagOx might be an easier/faster way to see if magnesium is the issue.

What can he see from his stall? Can you play around with more/less visibility? The wildlife really does have mine worked up! Every third day or so I have to remind Dove that she’s not allow to rip her face out of the halter and dash into the run when I bring her in :rolleyes: She’s just THAT intent on seeing if there are deer or turkey or whatever else at the bottom of the hill…

[fanfayre]

That sounds like some colic symptoms…

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Simkie I don’t know how much valerian is in the Divine Equine and I’m kinda learning that it’s something I really should know, regardless of what it is. LOL.

As for what he can see, he can look out and see into the next door field, and yes the deer are around, the raccoons come into the barn (they were helping themselves to cat food, which we have since fixed that issue), etc. Altho none of this is new, ever! He’s been exposed and around wildlife most of his life.

I read about Taurine (which is in the Seroquine) it sounds like that might be a good option to try.

I dunno. I’m only willing at this point, to do so much. I have poured thousands into him, to get/keep him sound, sane and healthy. And it’s never enough. I am at a point where something simple, fine. Complicated, expensive, no. BTDT. My brain cells are about to explode with all that I’ve put into this horse. He’s retired, let life be simple for once.

[Alibhai_s_Alibar]

Are the meltdowns always in the stall?

[Obsidian_Fire]

@Alibhai's Alibar

Are the meltdowns always in the stall?

That’s a good question. I’m going to say “yes”, altho when he’s outside it would be harder to tell if he’s having a ‘moment’ or if those ‘moments’ are when he ends up hurting himself outside, and I just don’t see them. ??? Like if he’s having anxiety outside he has more room to pace it off, whereas inside he does not. I do know that in the past when he’s had a run off his stall, if he was anxious he’d pace in and out very quickly.

These moments are just unpredictable. I have never been able to pin down if one is coming on, or what brought it on, nothing. I could talk with my BO about moving stalls and see if changing his view helps, but I kind of doubt it. Our barn is set up such that they can all pretty much see something of the outside. Plus I don’t want to give him one more thing to get upset over.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

Does he have a job? When did he start not having a job, and did the episodes increase?

Is he safe to handle for someone who might not have his or her own horse but wants a fix and can do clicker training with him?

My horse doesn’t have any behavioral problems, but my former dog sure did until the day he died, and Prozac saved all of us. When he went on it, so much of his anxiety was treated.

He was in a study at the University of Pennsylvania with Dr. Karen overall. She stressed that it was not just the medication, but also the behavioral modifications.

He had jobs to do. He was absolutely the smartest dog I’ve ever known, and he would learn the tricks very quickly. We kept his brain as engaged as possible, and when we didn’t do daily training sessions, we could see the difference in him.

I’m sorry you’re going through this, and he is. It’s no fun for either of you, and it’s so frustrating.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@right horse at the right time Thanks. He does not have a job anymore - too many injuries, too much rehab, I finally had to call it. I agree tho, that he probably wants one. I spend as much time one on one with him as I can, every day. He gets included in brushings and carrots and scratches on his favorite spots. I wish he was sound enough to keep riding, but I’m not investing any more money into injections etc. to keep him that way at this time.

These episodes… I don’t think they’ve increased in frequency. Yes, he would be very safe for someone to handle to mess around with ground work, but I don’t know anybody like that at this time. That would be a nice idea for him tho.

I did order some Seroquine.

[IPEsq]

Prozac is around $75 for an injection that lasts about 4 weeks. Helped my horse not try to clim out of his stall when he was laid up. It does sound like some sort of anxiety triggered obsessive compulsive thing. IME, Prozac can help that better than “calming” stuff.

[Magicboy]

My vet uses the zykene and it does seem to calm the ocd horse

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Obsidian Fire

@right horse at the right time Thanks. He does not have a job anymore - too many injuries, too much rehab, I finally had to call it. I agree tho, that he probably wants one. I spend as much time one on one with him as I can, every day. He gets included in brushings and carrots and scratches on his favorite spots. I wish he was sound enough to keep riding, but I’m not investing any more money into injections etc. to keep him that way at this time.

These episodes… I don’t think they’ve increased in frequency. Yes, he would be very safe for someone to handle to mess around with ground work, but I don’t know anybody like that at this time. That would be a nice idea for him tho.

I did order some Seroquine.

I wish you the best-so hard to see them anxious!! Update after you try that!!

[IrishBirdcatcher]

@Obsidian Fire

I show up in the morning to feed, to find him frantically nickering at me, pacing his stall, not eating, and desperate to get out.
He gets ‘safe’ turnout in the arena daily to blow off steam before going outside (where it’s muddy and nasty).

These episodes are not new. Just the frequency seems to be increasing.

Is it possible that he has made the connection that his pacing and other behaviors will be rewarded with more/immediate turnout time? Maybe it isn’t as much anxiety as excited anticipation.

I can’t find the article, but I read that there was a study comparing turnout behavior if horses had been kept in a stall, had been ridden that day, or if they had been hand walked earlier in the day. Unsurprisingly, the ridden horses exhibited less zoomies when turned out than the stall kept horses. But the handwalked group was very very close in results to the ridden group and study recommended it as one way to reduce turnout injuries. Could you break the come-to-feed-horse-acts-crazy-until-turned out patten by showing up 15-20 minutes before food time and taking him for a brisk walk around the farm? As an OTTB he might feel very comfortable reverting back to his childhood of hand walks and it might provide him with the job he needs. As much as my hot-blooded horse likes treats and grooming, he relaxes best when he is moving his feet and when he sees his human herd migrating along side of him.

[kiwichick]

we had a horse at a barn that couldnt go to turn out, he would have extremely high anxiety and panic and run around, he was a very expensive horse, so the decision was made to leave him in. At some point over the following year where he had been having supervised and handled outside turnout, he decided he couldnt be stabled and the behaviour went from outside to in, and he had to be on 100% turnout (even though all the other horses come in and he is out there all alone).
He was quite neurotic and used to have very strange episodes which were never explainable.
Sometimes you just never know what they have been through or how fragile their state of mind is.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@IrishBirdcatcher That’s an emphatic no. There is no correlation between these episodes & my showing up to feed, etc. I have had boarders call me and tell me my horse is having a meltdown.

You’d have to know the horse I guess, but his eyes are blank - that thousand yard stare - and he knows I’m there (I am safety, I think, which is why he nickers frantically at me), yet I don’t exist, if that makes any sense.

I can try the handwalking, definitely.

[IrishBirdcatcher]

@Obsidian Fire

@IrishBirdcatcher I have had boarders call me and tell me my horse is having a meltdown.

You’d have to know the horse I guess, but his eyes are blank - that thousand yard stare - and he knows I’m there (I am safety, I think, which is why he nickers frantically at me), yet I don’t exist, if that makes any sense.

That sounds just awful for both of you. poor boy.

[Simkie]

I hope the Seroquine helps. Do you think there’s something bigger going on? Like a brain tumor? What’s your gut feel on it?

Thinking back, the one time I had a horse well and truly lose it where I was honestly afraid that she was going to die in the stall within minutes was due to ulcers. Not sure if your guy is quite that extreme. I hope not, for your sake! That was terrifying :eek:

But thinking along the “digestive system” idea…is he grey? Perhaps an internal melanoma is causing transient pain. Or a lipoma. Something hurts in his gut, he gets worked up and frantic, it shifts, he settles. Have you ever tried a full dose of banamine when he’s upset? I wonder if that would be diagnostic…

[IPEsq]

My friend’s horse (who is typically one of the most laid back horses I’ve ever known and I’ve known him for a few years now with no history of ulcers) would go all wide eyed, nobody’s home when he recently went through an ulcer situation. He had had a niggling lameness issue that I think caused enough stress to cause the ulcers. He would go from his normal self to out of his mind. However, it happened just about everywhere but mostly not in his stall. I do wonder, however, if maybe feeding schedule may make things worse for your guy. Friend’s horse didn’t show any signs of ulcers as far as eating went. After a course of GG, he went back to his normal self and I haven’t seen that glazed over look out of him since.

My horse also acted similarly on stall rest. He would just wind himself up until he didn’t know why he was wound up. Sometimes he needed a nap. Or to munch his hay. It was like watching an over tired toddler who would have a complete meltdown at nap time. There was one instance when he just went pacing around his stall for what seemed like forever. I gave him hay, moved his hay net all around to try to find a place he wanted to stand. I finally went in to strip out the mess. and when I brought in a new load of shavings, he finally let down and passed out flat in the new shavings. Putting him on Prozac helped with this kind of thing immensely. He would still get wound up but he could internally hit the reset button from time to time.

[16_Hands]

@fanfayre

If you’re looking for a calming feed, try this:
It’s a feed supplement, but not a drug, so even though he may be alert, he won’t likely be frantic or worrying, IF it’s a behavioral thing and not pain related
It may take a while to get the dosing and timing strategy right, but if it does work you may have a new horse on your hands and then it will be all wroth it!

Does this require a vet’s prescription? My mare gets quite anxious frequently and this might help her.