[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7457484]
What matters more is that it’s something the parents can’t afford and there are less expensive options.[/QUOTE]
I think you really hit the nail on the head. As much as we all may wish we could purchase $100,000 horses and $5,000 saddles, that is not the case for everyone and we all have to make decisions that allow us to be able to enjoy riding within our financial budgets.
[QUOTE=enjoytheride;7457484]
I think in a world where a 100,000 horse is normal a $5,000 saddle is an affordable and normal option. It’s possible that the trainer gets a kickback, and that everyone around her has that saddle because it’s popular, etc.
What matters more is that it’s something the parents can’t afford and there are less expensive options.[/QUOTE]
I stopped responding to the OP’s saddle threads after she posted the same question about four times (having apparently ignored the good answers she’d gotten to that question from not just me, but a half dozen other people.) So I suspect she’s quite young.
But in her defense, I gather that her trainer is sponsored by Antares, not CWD. It sounds like this young lady has never shopped for a saddle before, so as some others have suggested, she may have been negatively influenced by her environment; she’s at a barn where people suggested that her only or best option was a very pricey French saddle, and nobody thought to say “Buy a $600 Dominus or a $700 Pessoa and you’ll be just fine.” She also asked here on COTH repeatedly, ad nauseum, about the average price tag on used CWDs. (Yet somehow managed not to actually buy one, which I don’t get. I can personally vouch for having mentioned used vendors such as ISellTack and Fine Used Saddles to her.)
Anyway, I’m not saying I condone her behavior. Like others, I am appalled by a $5500 saddle purchase instead of putting that money toward lessons and/or putting a suitable mount under her butt.
But perhaps at this point, the most productive way to help the OP is to suggest ways to get rid of the $5500 CWD. OP, if you can cancel the order, do so immediately. If you can’t, you can save some of your parents’ financial bacon by selling the CWD at a slight loss. You could sell it privately, or your CWD rep may even agree to resell it for you. Possibly as a term of sale, they’ll require you to buy something else from the Used CWD Sellier inventory. That could still save your family thousands and thousands of dollars.
Good luck, anyanicholson. You’ve made a very expensive mistake, and I hope you own up to it, but remember that pretty much all horsepeople make an expensive mistake at some point. And most of them do it for the same reason you did it: because they’re under-informed, only have exposure to a slim chunk of the horse world where certain behaviors are routine or expected, and get frustrated by what they don’t know (example: buying a very pricey saddle to “just end” their “saddle fitting hell.”) There’s no shame in making the mistake, but there’s shame in not fixing it and letting your loved ones bear the financial consequences.
That’s not giving BNTs very much credit…
Granted, I don’t spend a whole lot of time in that particular stratosphere, but I very seriously doubt that there is a legitimate BNT out there telling lesson clients that the absolutely HAVE TO HAVE a brand new custom saddle. Sounds like something a JAW trainer would do in order to imitate what they think the BNTs do.
Most of those BNTs have at least a couple of clients who can’t afford the $$$$$ it takes to go all out at that level. Even if they do have a saddle preference, I doubt it will matter to them whether you buy it new or used, so long as it is in decent shape and fits well.
Yes, there is probably social pressure to have all of the brand names, but that’s not really an excuse. You go in knowing what you can and cannot afford and you tell the trainer so.
OP, please keep in mind that supporting your riding is not, and should not be, the only financial commitment/financial goal that your parents have. Like most adults, they’re trying to reach multiple financial goals at the same time, and money put into one means money taken away from another. They are probably trying to save for your college education, their retirement, and pay down debt like a mortgage, all while keeping you fed, housed, and clothed, and trying to give you the opportunity to chase this dream. I agree with the others’ advice. Sell the saddle.
There are many ways to make horses more affordable. Like someone said, there are plenty of adults out there who don’t have time to ride enough. I’m one of them! For the right person, Id be happy to half lease my horse. Also, a good horse can be found under $5000 for purchase. Why not look into buying?
My parents and I have looked into buying a horse for me when I was young but they came to the final decision (and they were warned by my then trainer) that it gets more and more expensive as I improve and move up level by level which is why I have stuck with lease so that I could grow with different horses without having to worry about the astounding monthly costs.
[QUOTE=Narleta;7457552]
There are many ways to make horses more affordable. Like someone said, there are plenty of adults out there who don’t have time to ride enough. I’m one of them! For the right person, Id be happy to half lease my horse. Also, a good horse can be found under $5000 for purchase. Why not look into buying?[/QUOTE]
Right, and I am completely aware of the amount of bills that come through the door each month.
[QUOTE=Snugglerug;7457519]
OP, please keep in mind that supporting your riding is not, and should not be, the only financial commitment/financial goal that your parents have. Like most adults, they’re trying to reach multiple financial goals at the same time, and money put into one means money taken away from another. They are probably trying to save for your college education, their retirement, and pay down debt like a mortgage, all while keeping you fed, housed, and clothed, and trying to give you the opportunity to chase this dream. I agree with the others’ advice. Sell the saddle.[/QUOTE]
This brings me to my whole saddle experience:
I got a $1600 Antares saddle back in October which I bought through CWD online (at the time not knowing I had bought it through them) my mom couldn’t figure out how to contact them through eBay to ask and return it (she’s not very good with computers) and so we were stuck with it for 5 months until I finally went on her account to figure out how to message them.
By then, it was way past the trial but they agreed to take it back in turn for a credit on another one of their products (so I wasn’t about to lose $1600 on a saddle by buying elsewhere). Long story short, I sent it back, then received it back in the mail 2 weeks later saying that they couldn’t accept it and give me a credit because the tree was broken (surprise, surprise).
During the the period where I had sent back the saddle I had a rep come out to fit me and she began looking for used saddles for me but there was nothing to be found with my measurements: 17 seat, half-deep, 3L flap, Pro-Panel. So, I talked things over with my mom and CWD explained their payment-methods to me where my mom could pay over a span of time that way $5500 wouldn’t fly out the door all at once.
The reasons why I ended up spending a huge amount of money on a saddle:
a.) A bad experience with Antares
b.) Being stuck with an inappropriate saddle for months
(at the fault of myself and my parents)
c.) Not being able to find my requirements on the used-saddle market
(and believe me, Ive done very extensive research online, with iSellTack, MDTackExchange, Antares used saddles, CWD’s used saddles, eBay etc.)
d.) The saddle being the most important piece of equipment I’ll buy for riding
That being said, I plan on having this saddle for years.
I never intended on spending so much money on a saddle, my trainers never influenced me and nor did my riding peers, it was a risk I took and I am going to through with it.
[QUOTE=SaturdayNightLive;7457509]
That’s not giving BNTs very much credit…
Granted, I don’t spend a whole lot of time in that particular stratosphere, but I very seriously doubt that there is a legitimate BNT out there telling lesson clients that the absolutely HAVE TO HAVE a brand new custom saddle. Sounds like something a JAW trainer would do in order to imitate what they think the BNTs do.
Most of those BNTs have at least a couple of clients who can’t afford the $$$$$ it takes to go all out at that level. Even if they do have a saddle preference, I doubt it will matter to them whether you buy it new or used, so long as it is in decent shape and fits well.
Yes, there is probably social pressure to have all of the brand names, but that’s not really an excuse. You go in knowing what you can and cannot afford and you tell the trainer so.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=anyanicholson;7457637]
This brings me to my whole saddle experience:
I got a $1600 Antares saddle back in October which I bought through CWD online (at the time not knowing I had bought it through them) my mom couldn’t figure out how to contact them through eBay to ask and return it (she’s not very good with computers) and so we were stuck with it for 5 months until I finally went on her account to figure out how to message them.
By then, it was way past the trial but they agreed to take it back in turn for a credit on another one of their products (so I wasn’t about to lose $1600 on a saddle by buying elsewhere). Long story short, I sent it back, then received it back in the mail 2 weeks later saying that they couldn’t accept it and give me a credit because the tree was broken (surprise, surprise).
During the the period where I had sent back the saddle I had a rep come out to fit me and she began looking for used saddles for me but there was nothing to be found with my measurements: 17 seat, half-deep, 3L flap, Pro-Panel. So, I talked things over with my mom and CWD explained their payment-methods to me where my mom could pay over a span of time that way $5500 wouldn’t fly out the door all at once.
The reasons why I ended up spending a huge amount of money on a saddle:
a.) A bad experience with Antares
b.) Being stuck with an inappropriate saddle for months
(at the fault of myself and my parents)
c.) Not being able to find my requirements on the used-saddle market
(and believe me, Ive done very extensive research online, with iSellTack, MDTackExchange, Antares used saddles, CWD’s used saddles, eBay etc.)
d.) The saddle being the most important piece of equipment I’ll buy for riding
That being said, I plan on having this saddle for years.
I never intended on spending so much money on a saddle, my trainers never influenced me and nor did my riding peers, it was a risk I took and I am going to through with it.[/QUOTE]
Please adjust your subject/verb agreement.
It is not money that YOU spent on the saddle, it is money that YOUR MOTHER spent on the saddle.
It is not a risk YOU took, it is a risk SHE took.
And so on.
[QUOTE=anyanicholson;7457624]
My parents and I have looked into buying a horse for me when I was young but they came to the final decision (and they were warned by my then trainer) that it gets more and more expensive as I improve and move up level by level which is why I have stuck with lease so that I could grow with different horses without having to worry about the astounding monthly costs.[/QUOTE]
Riding is going to get more and more expensive as you climb the levels, regardless of whether or not you have your own horse. Leasing is not cheap, especially if you want to go to the big shows and want something competitive. Look at some of the threads recently about expenses at the top shows, and realize that those competing in the BigEq ring are probably not all working/middle class folks.
Bottom line, it sounds like your parents have set a financial limit on your riding. As others have said, your expenses are not the only ones they have to deal with. At $650 a month, your dad sounds like he’s incredibly supportive already of your riding, albeit probably not at the top A show level. Nothing wrong with that. There are PLENTY of barns in that area that are more affordable (probably do local stuff and a few A shows) than a top USEF A circuit hunter/equitation barn. I suggest having a good sit down discussion with your folks and discuss exactly what they’re willing to give you for financial support, what you can bring in with a job, and find a barn that best suits your riding goals within that budget. I don’t see why you can’t still go to some A shows, you just won’t be living on the circuit. And no, that’s not a tragedy. Working student positions aren’t bad if you’re dying to show at big shows, but you need to search for the right fit and be prepared to work your butt off just to earn the opportunity to show. That’s not a guarantee as a WS.
And get ride of the $5.5K saddle and get something high quality and USED. Take the extra money and put it toward other aspects of your riding career.
The reasons why I ended up spending a huge amount of money on a saddle:
a.) A bad experience with Antares
b.) Being stuck with an inappropriate saddle for months
(at the fault of myself and my parents)
c.) Not being able to find my requirements on the used-saddle market
(and believe me, Ive done very extensive research online, with iSellTack, MDTackExchange, Antares used saddles, CWD’s used saddles, eBay etc.)
d.) The saddle being the most important piece of equipment I’ll buy for riding
That being said, I plan on having this saddle for years.
I never intended on spending so much money on a saddle, my trainers never influenced me and nor did my riding peers, it was a risk I took and I am going to through with it.
Agreed with above, your mother took this risk, not you. It’s not your money. Having said that, since this is what you wanted, do not be surprised or upset that your father is putting a cap on your riding expenses. He has every right to do so, time to figure out what you can do within that budget. Based on your other threads I would guess that you have your focus on the wrong things (expensive saddles, boots, tack etc), and not what is actually important.
Correct.
[QUOTE=meupatdoes;7457640]
Please adjust your subject/verb agreement.
It is not money that YOU spent on the saddle, it is money that YOUR MOTHER spent on the saddle.
It is not a risk YOU took, it is a risk SHE took.
And so on.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=anyanicholson;7457624]
My parents and I have looked into buying a horse for me when I was young but they came to the final decision (and they were warned by my then trainer) that it gets more and more expensive as I improve and move up level by level which is why I have stuck with lease so that I could grow with different horses without having to worry about the astounding monthly costs.[/QUOTE]
If you’re in a full lease (depending on the agreement, but in my experience in a full lease at a hunter/jumper show barn) the monthly costs are just as astounding. I leased horses when I was younger and we were on the hook for all expenses plus a fee for the actual lease. Yes, horses get more expensive to buy as you move up the levels, but horses also get more expensive to lease as you move up the levels. The price goes up either way. You could buy a horse that’s not necessarily fancy but will get the job done safely for as much as you could be spending on a fancier lease for a year.
It’s hard to be at a barn where everyone else can afford to do more than you can. It’s understandable that you want more, but you also need to come terms with the financial reality of it. I would love to go to Florida for six weeks and go to every away show that my barn goes to this spring and summer, but I know that’s not possible. I’m lucky enough to be able to do what I can do and to have my own horse and to get high quality training, and I’m happy with that. Be happy with what you have, and don’t pine over what you don’t have.
What exactly are your goals? I’d like to help give you advice and not just tell you that you shouldn’t have bought a $5,000 saddle and shouldn’t be spending money buying CWD boots, an Ogilvy pads, and hunter green jackets, but that’s hard without knowing what exactly you want to do other than jump higher. Is the 3’6" equitation your end goal? The 3’ equitation? Do you want to go away to HITS and Vermont, or are you satisfied with doing the local AA shows, or even just the locally rated shows? Do you want to compete in classes where you can qualify for finals or do you just want to go to horse shows and win ribbons?
Do you NEED any of these things?
When I was still on ponies and show jumping, there was a lot of privileged kids. One that sticks out is a girl who had £700 show jackets, £2000 saddles etc. I still beat her in my second hand tack and £50 show jacket - they count for nothing if the horse touches a pole! That is the harsh reality - as long as the horse is clean and the tack well fitting, no one will CARE what you’re wearing. You might get sarky comments from other competitors, but that is normal, you need to ignore them.
I know the hunter world is a bit crazy and a rich kid’s playground, are you sure this is the route you want to go down? I would say out of all the disciplines, this is the one where being on a budget will hamper you the most.
This is a tough but not impossible situation. If you want to be a hunter rider or eq rider at any point in your future, I would stay at this fancy barn and soak in every ounce of knowledge you can. Everything from tack, to bits, to saddles, etc. Watch and learn. Take as many lessons as you can. Make the lessons your priority. That is where your budget should go.
If money is already an issue I’m sorry to say that you may not make it to the Maclays. However, you could become a very good rider and riding is a sport you can do your whole life.
While you are lessoning and when you are at the barn, ask for extra work. Show that you are a smart and ambitious kid. Avoid drama. Once you have a relationship with them, perhaps you can work off some costs.
In the meantime, get a job outside of the barn that is steady and pays you some money to pay for things you will need or a show or two.
I am concerned about the saddle. What kind is it? You do not own a horse? So you do not know what horses it will it? That concerns me more than the initial cost.
At any rate, do not go back to the two foot barn. Stay with the fancy one and soak in every bit of knowledge you can. Good luck!
Another thing - A saddle has to fit the rider, but (in my opinion, more importantly) it also has to fit the horse. What if you want to lease a horse that the saddle doesn’t fit? I’ve had eleven horses over my lifetime, and only one saddle fit two, and I still had to get that adjusted.
My first and foremost goal is to work something out regarding half-lease with the barn manager with whom I’ve been told by many of her students that she is very good about making people’s price ranges work.
My second goal being to begin lease in late April early May.
My next goal is to continue in equitation. I’ve conversed with the barn owner before and she told me that because I’m 17 I would have to do 3’ because I’m too old to do Mini Medals or 2’6.
Because I didn’t have these opportunities at the other barn, I really aspire toward being able to move up to 3’6, but that all depends if my trainers feel comfortable putting me up to that level, and if there is a horse available with that kind of ability.
As far as shows go, the barn I ride at hosts many A/AA rated shows and have a 3 week summer showcase etc and host qualifying shows. When it comes to showing away, I’d like to go to Vermont Summer Festival and Fieldstone Show Park. But I’d be completely fine showing at home since the expense would be less since there would be no travel/trailering fees.
I would like to compete in classes where I’m qualifying for finals, like Medals. But just getting my feet wet and gaining some kind of mileage is really what I’m looking for in the long run.
[QUOTE=hj0519;7457655]
If you’re in a full lease (depending on the agreement, but in my experience in a full lease at a hunter/jumper show barn) the monthly costs are just as astounding. I leased horses when I was younger and we were on the hook for all expenses plus a fee for the actual lease. Yes, horses get more expensive to buy as you move up the levels, but horses also get more expensive to lease as you move up the levels. The price goes up either way. You could buy a horse that’s not necessarily fancy but will get the job done safely for as much as you could be spending on a lease for a year.
What exactly are your goals? I’d like to help give you advice and not just tell you that you shouldn’t have bought a $5,000 saddle and shouldn’t be spending money buying CWD boots, an Ogilvy pads, and hunter green jackets, but that’s hard without knowing what exactly you want to do other than jump higher. Is the 3’6" equitation your end goal? The 3’ equitation? Do you want to go away to HITS and Vermont, or are you satisfied with doing the local AA shows, or even just the locally rated shows? Do you want to compete in classes where you can qualify for finals or do you just want to go to horse shows and win ribbons?[/QUOTE]
I would also encourage you to watch the more advanced kids any chance you get.
Well, that’s the point of a Pro-Panel. With padding options, it fits many horses. I’m not getting a saddle that is fitted to one specific horse.
[QUOTE=Pipkin;7457674]
Another thing - A saddle has to fit the rider, but (in my opinion, more importantly) it also has to fit the horse. What if you want to lease a horse that the saddle doesn’t fit? I’ve had eleven horses over my lifetime, and only one saddle fit two, and I still had to get that adjusted.[/QUOTE]
That’s a good idea!
I’m trying to go to some of the Maclay/A-Rated shows with friends of mine who would be showing in them so see what it’s like and learn from it.
[QUOTE=carroal;7457683]
I would also encourage you to watch the more advanced kids any chance you get.[/QUOTE]
OP, I feel for you, and just want to say that you are acquitting yourself very well so far. On one hand, good on you for wanting to be good at your discipline and work hard towards your goal. On the other hand, despite how much young people are told ‘anything is possible!’, as you seem to realise life has very real limitations and sometimes anything isn’t possible.
So… I’m not quite clear on how things are. You are ‘at’ this new barn - does that mean you are taking lessons there? And you would like to lease one of their horses, but it might not be financially possible?
So now you can presumably jump above 2’ in lessons - can you compete the lesson horses, or are they all privately owned and the owners are busy competing them on weekends?
If you are seriously determined to make this work, the first place to start - and I mean this in the kindest way possible - would be to take a hard look at your desire for brand-name ‘stuff’. When one is on a tight budget (relatively speaking), having the same gear as the other riders at the barn just can’t be a priority. I’m basing this off your threads of the last 8 months (ordering a pair of Parlantis, exchanging a GPA Speed Air for the First Lady, buying Gary Mundy English stirrup leathers with your initials on them, wanting an Ogilvy pad, trying to find where to buy a green coat since it is “back in style”.) I understand that hunters is a fairly trendy sport and you do need to look the part, and that at a big show barn there is a lot of pressure to have ALL THE THINGS … but if you can’t afford it, you can’t afford it. You can’t afford to jump on every trend bandwagon. If you need more money to pay for lessons/lease/shows, then you need to be saving money by buying only the essentials - and getting the not-the-most-expensive-brand on sale/second hand. If you are determined to make this work, you have to be willing to make compromises and THIS is a prime area to do so.
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