Help! Looking for Jill from Gray Fox Farms

[Equine_Reproduction]

What a mess :(. I personally don’t comment one way or the other on Ms. Burnell’s opinions with regards to our own personal stallions or our equine reproductive business. I figure ultimately the proof “is” in the puddin’. We’ve certainly been in business long enough that I’m not too concerned about Ms. Burnell’s statements ;). But, I really, really feel for those stallion owners that haven’t been in the business as long or who don’t have quite as thick a skin as we’ve managed to develop over the years. What to do? They truly are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If they say nothing, it is assumed that the accusations are true. If they speak up, they are tarred and feathered for daring to refute statements and “bashing” another stallion owner :(. It’s just a sad state of affairs.

With that said, I “do” take exception to her blatant lies with regards to EVA. Attributing statements to Dr. Timoney that are out and out false really raised my ire. This thread: http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/discussion-on-eva-434834.html I had split out from a previous thread involving JB in which she was making claims that “Dr. Timoney said…” as I did not want the information on EVA lost in the mess that seems to accompany her these days. I contacted Dr. Timoney about her claims as, knowing Dr. Timoney, I just could not believe he would EVER say what she was claiming. He didn’t and the response I posted was at his behest. My biggest concern is that there are a sufficient number of people that “will” listen to her claims and I want to be absolutely clear on what is true, false and appropriate protocol if someone chooses to breed to an EVA positive stallion.

[Samotis]

From another post I saw earlier today about a mare in California, Jill is still buying broodmares.

So even with her bad business deals she is still getting plenty of business. Enough to have dozens of broodmares!

I just hope they are all taken care of.

I just have one broodmare and it’s plenty of work!

[Equilibrium]

[QUOTE=Infinite;6234156]
Just to be clear you could circle most of Europe a couple of times and not go the distance of one coast-to-coast trip in the US…so no boxes are a bit different there. Just saying…:)[/QUOTE]

Yeah but you have much slower travel rates and ferry rides ect. Can be an 8-12 hour journey from my place to the close side of England. Not so much mileage as it is the roads and hassles. Put it this way I live on an island off an island off the mainland.

Not like jumping on the highways and cruising. Trust me I know about travel in America. I can get from NY to MD quicker and easier than heading down to Cork. So to travel on a lorry to Holland from just outside Dublin involves 2 days and 2 Ferry rides. Just sayin it ain’t all about how big Europe is or isn’t. Try and think slightly lateral.

Terri

[skydy]

Equine Reproduction,
That was a very interesting thread about EVA and… I understand why you take exception to a stallion owner who is less than honest about such an important issue.

It is inexcusable for a SO to be so shortsighted as to try and minimize the need to manage EVA, rather than explain to mare owners that there are certain precautions and procedures required, to breed safely and responsibly.

Of course, the SO herself can claim only ignorance, or dishonesty…it is either one or the other on her part, no way around that one…

[TrueColours]

speaking of “alters” … anyone else notice that over half of kmsuds posts are on JB/GFF threads, SUPPORTING JB and GFF, and they came out of retirement with no posts since 2011 in January 2012 to comment (favorable things! ) on the now closed JB/GFF thread in Jan 2012 and all posts since then have only been on JB/GFF threads?

JUST sayin … … draw your own conclusions …

And wow. The TB’s in my breeding program are useless / worthless for ANYTHING other than for someone’s breeding program?

Im crushed …

It MUST be true because JB claimed it is so?! :rolleyes:

[VirginiaBred]

@hackinaround

These quotes from her blog make me want to gag.

" She will not breed Thoroughbred mares to her Thoroughbred stallion. The offspring of Thoroughbred to Thoroughbred breedings are only good for selling to other breeders for breeding stock, not for show horses."

“Thoroughbreds are fine to add into your program but they have to stand up to a higher standard then a warmblood. To breed a Thoroughbred to a Thoroughbred for anything other then a race horse is foolish. The exception is a event horse using proven parents although adding some warmblood is seen more and more.”

Someone better call up Gail and tell her Jill B said breeding TB’s is bad. I call not it.

I’m pretty sure Gail has all of that under control, takes any comments from her with a pound of salt and for sure seems to be doing JUST FINE with breeding A Fine Romance! :lol::lol::lol:

[Kmsuds]

TCF I suppose it makes sense that in your world people are not entitled to a positive experience.

I feel honored to know you care enough to check my posts. If you read those posts you might have to rethink your “alter” theory.

Just sayin…have a wonderful day

[omare]

“I’m still amazed that in this economy someone can be keeping very large (40 some) mare bands (breeding every year) and selling off the foals or young horses with sufficient income to support all of the mares, unsold youngsters and stallions. Even adding in stud fees - from my calculations it just doesn’t work.
Adding up annual shots, worming, trimming, feed, coggins for the mares and stallions and then layering on the same for the foals (who do require more shots the first year). Now drop in the big $$ - feed and I just can’t see how it works. And I’m a financial person.
In order to stay afloat (without outside income or a trust fund) short cuts must be happening somewhere in the list of what horses require for acceptable equine management, breeding and raising. JMHO”

I agree with that conclusion–I think anytime you look at a breeder website and see they are putting 20-30 some foals on the ground a year in this economy-- (that means likely unsold ones from prior years) – supporting 30 some mares and plus some stallions --all allegedly being supported by their breeding business sales (allegedly not by outisde income or an inheritance) it has to raise these same questions.

[Laurierace]

Truthfully, I have had nothing but a positive experience with Jill either but that doesn’t mean that I am going to argue with people who have and choose to share their stories. It just makes me feel extra grateful to be one of the apparently lucky few.

[Kmsuds]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;6234927]
Truthfully, I have had nothing but a positive experience with Jill either but that doesn’t mean that I am going to argue with people who have and choose to share their stories. It just makes me feel extra grateful to be one of the apparently lucky few.[/QUOTE]

Laurie, I respectfully disagree that I was arguing with people that are choosing to share their stories. The stuff I was reading was not personal experience they were sharing “others” experiences , insulting the stallions and going so far as to insinuate the offspring of GFF stallions were somehow not going to be saleable.

I found that offensive to be coming from another stallion owner and was simply stating my point of view about how I as a customer am turned off by that stuff.

And then again a stallion owner chooses to call me an “alter” because I chose not to say anything negative about GFF and say I only post about their threads, when if you read my posts it is quite clear that she is wrong.

[FLIPPED_HER_HALO]

There are a few other new mares coming, shown on her website.

24K did well showing, I wonder why they aren’t going to continue to compete her. Is it the usual thing to show in the early years and then just go to the breeding shed before they really prove themselves? I’m not a “breeder” so asking if this is a normal practice.

24K
Popeye K x Holy Cow
16.2hd mare

24 K is the full sibling to HOY Wow. She’s got an excellent temperment and a 10 jump. Pretty mover. She’s a once in a lifetime mare. Crossing the hunter lines of Redwine and Popeye K will be a perfect combination of looks, brains, movement and jump. She will be bred to Redwine for a 2013 foal. See Nursery 2013 for inutero prices. Many thanks to Trainer Leslie Nelson for this amazing opportunity

DELILAH
16.1h Dark Bay Holsteiner mare by Coriano

Delilah is proven hunter broodmare, the dam of HOY - Outstanding. We are
so excited to have this wonderful hunter mare join our broodmare band. Pictures coming. She’ll be bred to Redwine for a 2013 foal. Inutero price 10,000.

I have to say there are several of her mares that I really like, and generally I don’t like mares.

[pinhurst52]

People are still going to keep sending mares to this person & she has warrants & judgements from an old trainer, & a vet, & a feed store,& a local lawyer & her property was just on the auction block. All is on Public Record. Woah.

[B]2573651 - Pub. Mar. 8, 15, 22, 2012 3ti

NOTICE OF TRUSTEE’S SALE TS No. 11-0139486 Title Order No. 11-0120074 Investor/Insurer No. 0033069923 APN No. 113-120-036 YOU ARE IN DEFAULT UNDER A DEED OF TRUST, DATED 02/06/2004. UNLESS YOU TAKE ACTION TO PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY, IT MAY BE SOLD AT A PUBLIC SALE. IF YOU NEED AN EXPLANATION OF THE NATURE OF THE PROCEEDING AGAINST YOU, YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LAWYER.” Notice is hereby given that RECONTRUST COMPANY, N.A., as duly appointed trustee pursuant to the Deed of Trust executed by ALEXANDER BURNELL, AND JILL BURNELL, HUSBAND AND WIFE, dated 02/06/2004 and recorded 2/25/2004, as Instrument No. 2004024655, in Book , Page ), of Official Records in the office of the County Recorder of Sonoma County, State of California, will sell on 04/02/2012 at 10:00AM, In the Plaza at Fremont Park located at 860 Fifth Street, Santa Rosa, CA 95401 at public auction, to the highest bidder for cash or check as described below, payable in full at time of sale, all right, title, and interest conveyed to and now held by it under said Deed of Trust, in the property situated in said County and State and as more fully described in the above referenced Deed of Trust. The street address and other common designation, if any, of the real property described above is purported to be: 324 HANNAN RANCH LANE, PETALUMA, CA, 94952. The undersigned Trustee disclaims any liability for any incorrectness of the street address and other common designation, if any, shown herein. The total amount of the unpaid balance with interest thereon of the obligation secured by the property to be sold plus reasonable estimated costs, expenses and advances at the time of the initial publication of the Notice of Sale is $644,471.25. It is possible that at the time of sale the opening bid may be less than the total indebtedness due. In addition to cash, the Trustee will accept cashier’s checks drawn on a state or national bank, a check drawn by a state or federal credit union, or a check drawn by a state or federal savings and loan association, savings association, or savings bank specified in Section 5102 of the Financial Code and authorized to do business in this state. Said sale will be made, in an ‘’AS IS’’ condition, but without covenant or warranty, express or implied, regarding title, possession or encumbrances, to satisfy the indebtedness secured by said Deed of Trust, advances thereunder, with interest as provided, and the unpaid principal of the Note secured by said Deed of Trust with interest thereon as provided in said Note, plus fees, charges and expenses of the Trustee and of the trusts created by said Deed of Trust. DATED: 02/22/2012 RECONTRUST COMPANY, N.A. 1800 Tapo Canyon Rd., CA6-914-01-94 SIMI VALLEY, CA 93063 Phone: (800) 281 8219, Sale Information (626) 927-4399 By:-- Trustee’s Sale Officer RECONTRUST COMPANY, N.A. is a debt collector attempting to collect a debt. Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. ASAP# 4209725 03/08/2012, 03/15/2012, 03/22/2012

[/B]

[showjumpers66]

Please re-read my original post. I was sharing a personal experience and not an experience of another. I also agreed with you that things tended to get out of hand on the forums and that isn’t right either. My post was not meant as a personal attack. I was simply stating my opinion that people should be allowed to share bad experiences to prevent them from happening to others.

[QUOTE=Kmsuds;6235023]

Laurie, I respectfully disagree that I was arguing with people that are choosing to share their stories. The stuff I was reading was not personal experience they were sharing “others” experiences , insulting the stallions and going so far as to insinuate the offspring of GFF stallions were somehow not going to be saleable.

I found that offensive to be coming from another stallion owner and was simply stating my point of view about how I as a customer am turned off by that stuff. [/QUOTE]

[showjumpers66]

[QUOTE=Kmsuds;6234074]
If you personally have a bad dealing with another stallion owner fine. But heresay is just that.[/QUOTE]

Please re-read my original post below. My post was not meant as a personal attack. I was simply stating my opinion that people should be allowed to share bad experiences to prevent them from happening to others. This was our personal experience and I just said that I knew of others who had been in our shoes and then shared our personal experience. I apologize if it offended you.

Worse, she has bashed other stallions and breeders through the use of alters and friends (confirmed via IP addresses when we were on the receiving end of one of her bash fests). In our situation, she was using multiple alters and was saying that she was various professionals all with the same negative opinion of our stallion. She was also sending PMs to anyone who inquired about our stallion advising them to “run not walk” from him. We are not the only ones that she has done this to. Since she has been “outed” on the forums, she has now created an “educational” blog on her website which she is using to the same purpose.

I understand where you are coming from and totally agree that things tend to get out of hand on the forums. Initially, I tried dealing with it by not responding, but the negative comments, emails, and private messages escalated. At that point, I provided factual replies to the lies that were circulating but more alters were created to try to disprove my facts with comments that substantiated the lies. Only when this person was publicly outed and the alters banned, did it stop. Right or wrong, we were forced to deal with it in this manner. The offense that I take is that she continues to hurt others. Please forgive me for caring about the welfare of my peers!

@AndNirina

And I had to shake my head when I heard you mention OCD, DLee. The story that JB fed to me about Apiro was a completely different one. My condolences to you, Showjumpers66. I’m sure you’ve heard it all at this point.

Yes, I have! Around the time he was presented to AHS (and approved), she had it circulating that he had DSLD. I didn’t even know what it was and had to look it up. Really??? :lol::lol::lol:

[Kmsuds]

Silvercreek I have re-read your post, and in turn I would ask you to do the same. I have NEVER suggested someone not post their concern or their own experience. I simply do not want to be attacked for posting mine.

Your post was talking of friends who had issues etc, then SO using an “alter” to bash your stallion.

I was just accused of being an “alter” so if I say something bad about a stallion it’s quite easy for that stallion owner to say “oh it’s an alter bashing”. I am not saying you weren’t telling the truth, I just prefer to see situations where the lines aren’t blurred. And again as I said previously I just think it looks worse when it’s stallion owners representing their own business doing the bashing. Just my opinion.

[ise]

I just cannot BELIEVE people are selling or loaning or whatever mares to this woman with the farm being put up for Sheriff Sale. Who in their right mind would send a LIVE horse to this woman?

[Sonesta]

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6235503]
I just cannot BELIEVE people are selling or loaning or whatever mares to this woman with the farm being put up for Sheriff Sale. Who in their right mind would send a LIVE horse to this woman?[/QUOTE]

People who have no idea what is going on with her. I mean, it’s not like she is being up front and telling them about this.

[SGray]

sale was scheduled for 4/02/12 - did it happen?

[Appsolute]

[QUOTE=SGray;6235541]
sale was scheduled for 4/02/12 - did it happen?[/QUOTE]

The Sonoma County website says that it is posting records through 4-4, and they are not showing a foreclosure deed recorded. I am guessing it did not happen, or if it did, the bank bought the property back and has not gotten around to recording the deed yet.

Either way, she is in default on her mortgage. Is in default on her feed bill. Is in default to her attorney. She is in default to John French and others who have sued her and won.

Edited to add: She hasn’t paid her vet either, he has an abstract of judgement against her.

I am sure she owes more people. These are just the ones that took it all the way to court!

I think it should be sung from the roof tops so that other unsuspecting mare owners do not send her MORE HORSES because she is STILL collecting them.

The is in no financial shape to be acepting additional horses. Who is selling feed to her after she never paid her last supplier? Where is she going to board all of these horses if the bank evicts her?
[B]
Jill Burnell has not paid:

Her mortgage
Her feed store
Her vet

And yet… she is getting and breeding MORE horses?!?[/B]

[Lynnwood]

[QUOTE=Appsolute;6235649]
The Sonoma County website says that it is posting records through 4-4, and they are not showing a foreclosure deed recorded. I am guessing it did not happen, or if it did, the bank bought the property back and has not gotten around to recording the deed yet.

Either way, she is in default on her mortgage. Is in default on her feed bill. Is in default to her attorney. She is in default to John French and others who have sued her and won.

Edited to add: She hasn’t paid her vet either, he has an abstract of judgement against her.

I am sure she owes more people. These are just the ones that took it all the way to court!

I think it should be sung from the roof tops so that other unsuspecting mare owners do not send her MORE HORSES because she is STILL collecting them.

The is in no financial shape to be acepting additional horses. Who is selling feed to her after she never paid her last supplier? Where is she going to board all of these horses if the bank evicts her?
[B]
Jill Burnell has not paid:

Her mortgage
Her feed store
Her vet

And yet… she is getting and breeding MORE horses?!?[/B][/QUOTE]

The solution to her fixing the minimum of her problems is sitting in her barn. When businesses get in financial trouble they liquidate. It is a bitter pill to swallow but necessary. There have been friends of hers that have come and attempted to explain that she was over faced /just swamped busy/yada yada. It seems less horses would kill two birds one stone.

If she halved her herd and sold off a few of the mares or even a stallion or two she could pay her bills and start to fix her reputation.