Has anyone heard from the OP or did she just give up when the focus of the thread took on a life of its own?
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6147819]
Kmsuds - 3 horses on 1 acre with no grass and stall bound for 3 weeks. I honestly wouldn’t keep my horses in those conditions and certainly hope none ever get sold to that situation.
And Peskee - you stated “And most of us know the reputation of Jill Burnell”. How exactly do you know who knows and who doesn’t? It’s a big country with a lot of mare owners - so I’d love to know how you feel this information is supposed to reach those mare owners? By osmosis? Or after they have had a bad experience because they DID NOT KNOW?
And NOMIOMI1 - not sure what part of the US you live in but there is a crisis with horses/ponies from coast to coast. Yes that’s right even pregnant mares and foals just weaned being dumped at the killer sales because owners hit the wall financially and had no PLAN B.
I’d love to know where some of you buy those rose colored glasses.[/QUOTE]
I feel bad for people that have the need to bash others to feel powerful.
Are you so naive to think that horses on lush pastures are always well cared for and do not get physically or mentally abused, speak of rose colored glasses?
When we decide to devote our lives to caring for horses we have a duty to make right decisions. I investigate every aspect of my decisions. With access to so much info at our finger tips we can do our best to make sure our horses are well cared for by their next owner but we can never guarantee their long term care unless we keep them forever. Since I do specialize in boarding and showing mares, foals and young horses with a large international clientele I am aware of heresay about Jill Burnell. I have never had a bad experience with her personally so who am I to judge her?
You are very handy at sharing your rose covered glasses…I do not need them, threw mine away 10 years ago.
Why can’t people get on this forum and use it for what it is intended for without the bashing that some feel the need to do? If you have no dog in this fight why do you have the need to tear everyone down…you have offered no advice or said or done anything constructive to help this OP’s situation.
I just hope the OP has resolved her dilemna and her mare is safe.
Horses get sold to and boarded in So Cal all the time, where there are 100 horses on 10 acres and ALL of them living in a “mare motel” with zero turnout. Some have an attached 12x12 pen, many do not.
LA Equestrian Center anyone?
Would I do it? No. But thousands of horses live that way their whole lives.
Peskee and KMSuds - thanks for the morning laugh!!!
People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…D
and JB - I wouldn’t buy horses that are kept in the manner you describe. I feel if that’s they way you have to keep them - you have too many.
Very true. But they are all mature animals who are getting ridden. While foals CAN be raised this way, I for one, as a buyer would not purchase a foal raised with such space restrictions for the first year of it’s life. Too much solid research that indicates this is related to various cause bone issues (like OCD).
But otherwise? Unbred mares, stallions, geldings, etc. can be routinely kept in small spaces, especially if they are exercised via walkers or being ridden.
Some of these posters DO get rather arch about these things sometimes…
ise - the issue in places like that is there Is. No. Room. Southern Cal, many places in Colorado especially around the Denver area, there simply is no pasture. Arizona too, around Phoenix at least.
I don’t like it either, I wouldn’t own a horse if the only place to keep him was one of those boarding barns. My point though is it’s done a LOT out there, and horses live long, happy lives.
My point is one should not condemn GrayFox, or any farm in similar environmental situations, based on the amount of space vs the number of horses JUST because of that. I’m not getting into anything else as I’ve never seen seen pictures, let alone seen it in person My point is the space vs horses described is BETTER than some boarding barns, and not any worse than many.
You don’t have to like it, but it’s not as if it’s something unheard of at all.
LA Equestrian Center - do you see turnout? Horses LIVE here
http://la-equestriancenter.com/overheadfacilitylayout.htm
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;6148255]
Very true. But they are all mature animals who are getting ridden. While foals CAN be raised this way, I for one, as a buyer would not purchase a foal raised with such space restrictions for the first year of it’s life. Too much solid research that indicates this is related to various cause bone issues (like OCD).
But otherwise? Unbred mares, stallions, geldings, etc. can be routinely kept in small spaces, especially if they are exercised via walkers or being ridden.
Some of these posters DO get rather arch about these things sometimes…[/QUOTE]
Oh I agree, I could never buy a foal having been raised in such small confinement when there are endless other options. But I’d also probably have an issue with a young horse having been raised, even outside, on the soft sands of Florida, since that can directly affect the health of the feet 
But I don’t condemn it as others are wont to do, it’s just not something I’d buy
Even here in MD I boarded at a barn that had over 30 horses on 6 acres. Obviously there was no grass and horses didn’t get as much turnout as we would like but we made do and all the horses were fine. I too have shipped horses numerous times coast to coast in a straight stall. Granted none of them was a pregnant warmblood but they arrived in good shape.
One thing I have noticed every time GFF gets brought up is people do seem to go off on weird tangents that may or may not be relevant but it seems like every thread adds another personal anecdote or two to the pile that needs to serve as a warning to others. If only we could separate the facts from the frothing for easy reference.
[QUOTE=Laurierace;6148272]
If only we could separate the facts from the frothing for easy reference.[/QUOTE]
:yes:
Very well said Peskee
My husband said it best, (when I considered my reply to the CA haters) don’t feed crazy 
[QUOTE=wanabi;6143219]
Next time someone as a mare to lease, send them my way
Sandra
www.laprisestable.com[/QUOTE]
OMG SANDRA! HAHAHA I LOVE YA! HAHAHA
‘Bringing the best stallions closer to home.’
www.mountaincreeksporthorses.com
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;6146831]
Again, if she was taken off and rested for a minimum of 8 hrs per 24, then no harm;no foul. Check your facts first.
Slant load trailers DO come in WB size, btw. Did you SEE the trailer she was in?
If you didn’t see the trailer and you didn’t know if she was taken off every night, then you really know virtually nothing about whether it was “cruel and inhumane” or not…:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
fwiw, many horse transports don’t take the horses off each nite… they stay on the truck and come off at the mid resting point for a few days… then back on for another day or two.
When i was shipping my 2 yo i did a lot of research and felt that it is safer for the horse to stay on the trailer, then to be exposed to disease etc on the trip home. they stop and water every 3 hours etc.
as for horses per acre - i live down the road from the breeder, and i wouldn’t call the place a “farm” its just someones house on a couple acres… ie: it is a small piece of land with lots of horses.
there are places here where horses can be out all day/every day - so horses dont have to be kept that way.
I agree with Laurie, too many OMG horses are tortured!
Here’s the thing young babies need room to run around and develop. I can’t comment one way or another on Jill’s place. I will say that when I was involved with racehorses and first went to So Cal in the 80’s I always remember someone saying never buy a Cal bred as they never stay as sound. Now that was just someone saying whatever but I do remember asking why and the reply was because they never have large enough space to run around and develop. Of course there have been some good Cal breds and there are beautiful farms out there with acerage.
I don’t hate So Cal but managing babies is a balance of lots of different things. It’s possible to raise babies there of course it is but you probably have to work harder at management. And a 20 acre field of lush grass isn’t always the best thing for some mares and foals especially with small stocking rates. Can also be detrimental. Again it’s all a balance.
And to however said held her stallions, come on. Be serious.
In Europe there is no box stall shipping on lorries. And it’s not even slant. The are sideways. I see mares and foals heading off like this and they arrive perfectly safe and happy.
Just keep things in perspective. I hope the OP has some resolution.
Terri
We would all love lush green pastures, and if you look at Texas last year all you would have seen is brown dirt because of the record drought. Also most of you would be horrified to have seen the record number of horses starved and abandoned in Texas. Horses free everywhere and no one wanted them. Ideal situations are not always possible. We just strive to do the best we can for our horses. Brown dirt does not mean bad owners or underfed horses. My hay and feed costs have tripled. Kudos to those that have lush green pastures, wish you could share.
Good point CathyKb - and the example of what happened in Texas should be a wake up call to everyone who owns and breeds horses. All businesses should have a plan for how they will handle the situation if weather or other issues like the economy impact their CASH FLOW. What is their PLAN B. We have seen hay almost double in costs here in the Northeast/MidAtlantic area and we had very good weather this summer.
All owners should consider what the MAX is for their individual farm with respect to horses and how they can be kept properly without destroying the land. With any other impact on their cash flow - they shouldn’t pull in yet more mares to breed - but reverse gears and CUT BACK to assure they can manage what they have. In GFF’s case that does not appear to be happening.
And as far as the comments about CA. A friend who was breeding at the time sent youngster to that LA Equestrian CTR for raising and starting/training. When she went to sell them NOT ONE vetted clean - they all kinds of feet/leg issues and unsoundness . Not one would Vet clean. Cost her a fortune and she ended up having to give some away as pasture ornaments and quit breeding.
And I DO NOT feel 30 horses on 6 acres is enough. My first farm was 7 acres and I could NEVER envision how we would have responsibly managed the land or the horses if we tried to keep that many. When you take out acreage for the home, buildings, riding ring, etc. - how were those 30 horses on 6 acres? They were probably on far less.
Soo… grayfox farm is 6 acres? Or is that speculation? Maybe if it was 7 id feel better about possibly buying a baby from her…
Gosh. Well- I got back into riding after all the career education over and not poor as a church mouse - IN LA - and yoiks, boarded at the Paddock. Across the HWY/river ( we went under lol) from the LA Equestrian Center. And yes turn out was in the rings and no, no pasture …but not talking broodmares and foals…so let’s not mix up what stage of horse life being discussed …And really the size of farm is NOT the issue(s)
That said my horses never had off - as in lame - days living in that LA jungle…did plenty of shows too but also lots of long trail rides in Griffith Park.
However as a DC/VA gal…glad to be back East
[QUOTE=veetiepony;6149462]
Soo… grayfox farm is 6 acres? Or is that speculation? Maybe if it was 7 id feel better about possibly buying a baby from her…[/QUOTE]
The lot size of the address listed on the GFF website according to public property record search is:
Lot size: 108,464.4 Sq Ft
Approximately 2.5 acres
Just looked at her place on Google Earth/Maps. I counted over 30 horses (hard to get an accurate count with babies laying down vs. shadows.) It looks like she has some sort of barn structure? Not sure. There is one “larger” paddock but there the most horses (mares and foals) in it.
I’m not commenting one way or another but that is a lot of horses for 2.5 acres.
Stalker alert!
I think someone said she used neighboring pastures of um… neighbors to also keep her horses.
I only really see speculations and mostly “she SEEMS” one way or the other.
I’m not interested in getting in a business deal with her being that I like my hard earned money, but I feel like all of this energy goes to waste when there are actual animals starved and abused right this very moment…
Can we google map more deserved offenders?
