Help Me Figure Out Tow Vehicles

[TheDBYC]

Pretty please! It is embarrassing how little I know about hauling despite hanging around horses as long as I have. I’m working on a coming up with a permanent solution. Once we manage to get a proper rig I am hauling people all over to pay it forward. I always pay our horse Uber drivers, of course. But it stills feels like we’re imposing.

In the interim, the trainer where we board very kindly offered to let us borrow her small, older 2-horse King bumper pull. It’s rated to 5500 lbs GVW and pulled comfortably with a Toyota Tacoma even over long distances with a large horse that was a restless traveler and tended to rock the trailer hard at slow speeds & red lights.

My only vehicle at the moment is a 2014 Audi Q5. 4 x 4/AWD, but only rated to pull a max of 4400 lbs. Does that seem like enough to pull a trailer with one horse - estimated total weight of 3600 lbs - to a show 10 minutes down a relatively flat road? My irl horse people are saying it will be fine. The boy toy (not horsey) says “OMG YOU’RE CRAZY YOU NEED AT LEAST A 1500 W/TOW PACKAGE!”

Any COTH advice?

[Scribbler]

@TheDBYC

Pretty please! It is embarrassing how little I know about hauling despite hanging around horses as long as I have. I’m working on a coming up with a permanent solution. Once we manage to get a proper rig I am hauling people all over to pay it forward. I always pay our horse Uber drivers, of course. But it stills feels like we’re imposing.

In the interim, the trainer where we board very kindly offered to let us borrow her small, older 2-horse King bumper pull. It’s rated to 5500 lbs GVW and pulled comfortably with a Toyota Tacoma even over long distances with a large horse that was a restless traveler and tended to rock the trailer hard at slow speeds & red lights.

My only vehicle at the moment is a 2014 Audi Q5. 4 x 4/AWD, but only rated to pull a max of 4400 lbs. Does that seem like enough to pull a trailer with one horse - estimated total weight of 3600 lbs - to a show 10 minutes down a relatively flat road? My irl horse people are saying it will be fine. The boy toy (not horsey) says “OMG YOU’RE CRAZY YOU NEED AT LEAST A 1500 W/TOW PACKAGE!”

Any COTH advice?

Where I live you hit mountains as soon as you leave the exurbs. And you can get steep hills and mud on close in rides too. And you need to be on the cross country freeway Highway One with high speeds and suburban congestion to get anywhere.

I have an aluminum 2 horse straight load bumper pull. I started out with an old Ram 1500 until the engine died. I replaced it with a second hand Ford F250 long box Heavy Duty (gas + automatic) and honestly could not do with any less power. It’s not just moving, it’s stopping.

As far as hauling folks, be picky. You want to make sure their horses load nicely, that they give you gas, that they help clean up, and that you can stand to spend the day with them. It’s fun taking a friend along to a show or a trail ride. But you are under no obligation to lose a whole Saturday hauling someone out to something you aren’t participating in.

Don’t haul anyone where you need to teach their horse to load or whose horse puts you or your horse at risk. I am guessing you are the ideal passenger but you’d be amazed at the range of bad horse and human behavior out there.

[atr]

You know, I don’t think I’d do it, personally.

One thing would be does the Audi have the right hitch, hitch height, wiring setup and a brake controller, etc? Or are you going to have to spend time and money to make this work?

Maybe hire a pickup for the day?

[LCDR]

What class receiver is your Q5 equipped with? Does the Q5 have a 7 pin RV-type connector? And does it have a trailer brake controller?

I don’t know you so my worry is the 10 minute tow with a single horse will go well and you starting to get complacent and expanding the boundaries and adding a second horse. The fact that you are asking for advice does tend to lessen that concern.

I will admit to towing an 18 foot boat on a trailer with an MG convertible with a hitch ball bolted directly on the rear bumper. Not my best decision in life. The Florida Highway Patrol agreed.

[Highflyer1]

It’s not just the weight, it’s also the wheelbase, which looks pretty short. I agree that renting a truck (if you can find one locally that is already set up to tow) might be better. It also sounds like you might not have much experience driving a trailer in which case having a sketchy setup will only make things scarier. The closest call I’ve ever had with a trailer was on a two lane highway five miles from home when a car suddenly did a u-turn in front of me. If I had been going any faster than five miles under the speed limit, if I had had a smaller truck, if I had been even the tiniest bit distracted, there is zero chance I would have been able to stop in time. As it was my poor horse got a nasty scrape but was fine. So the distance you are traveling doesn’t have to be huge-- people drive like jerks everywhere!

[Texarkana]

It is often recommended that you shouldn’t exceed 80% of your tow vehicle’s published towing capacity. 3600 lbs with a vehicle rated for 4400 lbs is 82%. While that might seem “close enough,” you have to consider the nature of hauling a live load— horses move and shift, they lean all their weight forward or back, etc. All of that can put a lot of stress on the vehicle and even cause the trailer to start tail wagging behind you, especially if your vehicle is on the smaller side.

I’m not a “omg you need a monstrous truck” person, but a crossover SUV really isn’t designed to pull horse trailers. They just aren’t big enough.

[Lizrd]

Call me crazy but I would use that vehicle to tow to the vet in the middle of the night in an emergency to get my horse to a clinic in a pinch but likely wouldn’t use it to go to an elective experience like a horse show or trail ride. I tow with a 1500 RAM and appreciate that I know my truck can stop what I am hauling - and some would even say that a 1500 isn’t sufficient. I hauled a large boat with a single axle trailer with a Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 many miles and I knew every minute that the boat outweighed me… and that was not shifting, pawing, moving livestock.

Also, as far as hauling people all over you may think differently about that after you analyze your investment and liability. Their horse gets hurt? You are liable. The horse damages your trailer. You have to fix it. The owners get weird about something happening? You are in the middle legally. Someone else hits you - your insurance likely won’t cover property damage for the other owner’s horse. And me, once I added up the “value” of the two horses I was hauling and realized that I would be in a world of financial hurt if I had to replace either of them I stopped hauling any rando who asked for a ride. I also insisted that they follow in their own car so that if anything DID happen at least they would see it with their own eyes.

And asking for payment for hauling someone should be another thread, where everyone will chime in on the qualifications and requirements of being a commercial shipper. I have been told that if you accept even $1 for hauling you put yourself in a different class with all kinds of DMV requirements.

[clanter]

@TheDBYC

Audi

get a Böckmann or similar European horse trailer?

Those were designed to work in conjunction with each other and those trailers will have surge brakes so no need to add a brake controller

[Foxglove]

Can’t address your question on tow vehicles --because of that I suggest you take yourself to the nearest truck/car dealer and ask there --but do go to two or three —of course they will each try to sell you a vehicle, but listen instead for the information on suitable towing vehicles --you’ll start hearing the same things about engine size, brakes, shocks, mirrors, tow packages etc.

Now for my real reason to respond --while wanting to “haul everyone and pay it forward,” that is a noble idea --I had it too when I was a kid and had to go door-to-door around our farm begging people with horse trailers to take me to 4-H. I said if I ever got a trailer, I would haul anyone who asked --ok fast forward to when I am a trailer owner —and I did that.

Problems: people who expected me to load their horse (and often the horses would not load) making me late for whatever I was going to. People who sent their horse and child with me then showed up late to the show or whatever expecting me to supervise child and horse, put on saddle, bridle, etc. People who asked me to take said kid and horse home --and oh, would I mind feeding their other stock so they could stay longer. People who blamed me for injuries in my trailer --one even said I caused it so her kid’s horse couldn’t show and my kid would win --they refused to wrap or put boots on the horse, and he cut his own leg with his shoe scrambling to get out of the trailer. No one ever helped wash the trailer after --no one --ever --despite me asking and offering to pick up said kid to do it the next day. People who complained I had a ramp (when their horse wouldn’t load) people who complained I didn’t have a ramp when their horse wouldn’t load. People who expected me to load their stuff and make sure it was all there --my fault if they forgot anything --people expected me to provide filled hay nets for the trip --and the worst --people whose horse damaged my trailer and said, “Well, it’s horse trailer --fix it if you want to.”

To this day I am still asked if I would loan my rig --no. no. no. And I don’t haul for anyone --ever. Before you start hauling for folks, you might check your insurance --if someone’s horse gets hurt in your trailer --are you responsible for the vet bill?

[endlessclimb]

@TheDBYC

2014 Audi Q5. 4 x 4/AWD, but only rated to pull a max of 4400 lbs

Anyone who has heard me talk knows I’m ok with hauling with smaller rigs, but even I would not do this. Your suspension will be absolutely max-bottomed out, which impacts your handling.

Would you be fine for 10 minutes? Probably. But this is not a good idea long term.

Anything you tow with should have a max of at least 5500#. JMO. My 08’ jeep had a tow rating of 6000# and it looked ridiculous in front of my Sundowner which fully loaded was 500# below the 6k rating. I hauled like that for 100,000 miles plus.

[fivestrideline]

Don’t do it. Unless it’s an emergency vet haul. Not only for safety, but you’ll really do a number on your car, even in just a short trip. The cost of new suspension/brakes/engine repairs is far higher than just paying someone or renting a truck!

Since you’re not extremely skilled at hauling yet, you may not have the ability to predict trouble or get yourself out of it once you’re there. Deer and idiot drivers don’t care how far you are from home! I would also be surprised if your vehicle is ACTUALLY set up correctly to haul ie hitch height, connectors, brake controller, etc.

You can rent trucks from Enterprise to haul, if you can’t find someone to do it for you. They advertise for boats and RVs, and have 1500s and up, all ready to go. Just make sure your hitch and wiring match up (they’re pretty standard once you get to ‘actual’ trucks).

[Texarkana]

@fivestrideline

You can rent trucks from Enterprise to haul, if you can’t find someone to do it for you. They advertise for boats and RVs, and have 1500s and up, all ready to go. Just make sure your hitch and wiring match up (they’re pretty standard once you get to ‘actual’ trucks).

I’ve rented pickup trucks from Uhaul in the past. It’s surprisingly affordable and their trucks are specifically set up for towing. The only caveat is just like with any other place, you have to make sure the specific vehicle they are renting you has what is needed to tow your trailer safely. Most of them have class III or higher hitches, 7 way electric hookups, and in dash brake controllers… but not all of them. You also need to check ball size, since they usually have a ball on them but horse trailers can be variable in the size needed.

[clanter]

@Foxglove

To this day I am still asked if I would loan my rig --no. no. no

A trusted college friend of my daughter asked to use our two horse bumper pull so she could take her horse in the venue where she was to be married. She like that trailer so much she bought it for more than we paid for it, but I really understand what most people are dealing with as many people can not be trusted as they are friends on the surface only with little respect for other’s property

We live in an odd community where horses are often in backyards. At times we have helped some haul their horse to a vet for emergency life saving surgeries otherwise those horses would not have lived. These horses are well cared for by their owners, they just do not have all the tools needed. To date, none have asked for anything other than what we had offered.

I really think OP needs to investigate getting a European trailer as to me from what they posted the limited use would be better than getting a specific towing vehicle and then finding a place to store it when not needed. Such a trailer may not fill all the check boxes of prestige and glamor that a $80k aluminum Really nice new trailer with its $110k towing truck but as the horse gets off the trailer into the show grounds, it is the horse that competes, not the truck and trailer.

For decades we have been those poor old horse owners who bring their horses to competitions in our old truck and trailers, but the horses we bring often come back with the ribbons and are the envy of many (often we did loan out a few of our horses to deserving kids whose families could not afford a high value horse, one kid even took high point youth at a Class A on my kids’ mare)

[jherold]

It’s not the towing that’s the concern, it’s the stopping. Also, towing guidelines from manufacturers at based on towing balanced, stable weights. Horses are neither. I would see if you can get advice from a trailer dealer not a truck dealer! The Complete Guide to Buying, Maintaining, and Servicing a Horse Trailer can be very helpful.

[luvmyhackney]

You will murder the transmission in the Audi by hauling with it.

Plus stopping. You would be fine with a lightweight European trailer but one horse would be the limit and if I was going over a couple miles down the road, I would just rent a truck.

[Montanas_Girl]

Nope. No way. You will absolutely destroy the transmission of your car, and your rig will be unstable due to the short wheelbase and maxed out towing capacity.

The rule I was always taught was to pull no more than 75% of the rated towing capacity of the weakest link in your towing “chain” when hauling a live/unstable load. In my case, my truck is rated to haul 8,100 lbs., but the hitch is only rated for 5,500 lbs. Hauling a two horse stock combo and one large pony who weighs in at 1,100 lbs., I feel reasonably safe for short (<150 mile) hauls in good weather at 65 mph and slower.

[TheDBYC]

Wow, thanks for the reality check everyone! I’m a commercial insurance account manager. Naturally, the risk mitigation reflex spills over into my non-work life. Sometimes I worry about things that no normal human being would give a second thought. A bunch of impartial people confirming my gut feeling that it isn’t safe is very helpful. Know of someone who had another vehicle pull out in front of them at 50mph with a fully loaded 20’ stock trailer. Fortunately, they were able to brake enough to avoid collision and still not cause the trailer to flip over the truck. That’s the kind of scenario that goes thru the back of my mind.

Random brain dump in no particular order:

• Hauling others – I need to try better not to be so literal. I meant in the context of trusted barn mates headed to the same destination.

• Wondering if I could potentially run a short-term commercial lease through my farm LLC. This is the longest stretch I’ve ever been pickup truck-less and it’s a PITA as we actually do have legit business uses for a truck apart from the horses.

• I’ve been drooling over the new Euro horseboxes for years now but didn’t know anything like the Bochmann trailers existed. How cool! $30-40K for a trailer alone is not happening unless I hit the Powerball. Looking at about 1/2-3/4 that for a truck and a trailer. I refuse to spend more than $20k on a vehicle while we live in this county. Yeah, yeah, I know that I can register a trailer in Maine. I’m just wondering if the braking system on the Euro trailer could potentially change the category of vehicle it falls into.

[clanter]

I would just rent a truck.

check the local Enterprise rentals, some sites have 1/2 and 3/4 tons pickups that are approved for towing trailers.

The insurance we carry on our towing truck has rental for pickup that can tow on it, the rider was about the same as if opting for a car. The Enterprise outlet a few blocks away has trucks

(Also check your auto carrier to add the trailer to the policy, the insured value is at least for us is an agreed upon value rather than a blue book value…cost is literally pennies per month for full coverage)

[rulex]

@TheDBYC

I’m just wondering if the braking system on the Euro trailer could potentially change the category of vehicle it falls into.

It’s more than just the breaks. The euro trailers are also balanced to have much less tongue weight resting on the vehicle’s hitch. They also don’t wag the dog, not sure how else to explain it.

I would not tow a conventional trailer with your existing vehicle, full stop.

[TheDBYC]

@clanter

The insurance we carry on our towing truck has rental for pickup that can tow on it, the rider was about the same as if opting for a car. The Enterprise outlet a few blocks away has trucks

I’m not following why that would matter, Clanter? Most personal auto policies, mine included, extend coverage for occasional hires.

@rulex

It’s more than just the breaks. The euro trailers are also balanced to have much less tongue weight resting on the vehicle’s hitch. They also don’t wag the dog, not sure how else to explain it.

I would not tow a conventional trailer with your existing vehicle, full stop.

Yup. Agreed on that point. Sorry, my wording was probably unclear. it wasn’t my intention to infer that the trailer could affect the category of vehicle that the Audi is classified under. It was just me thinking out loud about Virginia + Loudoun County personal property taxes. Virginia collects personal property taxes 2x a year at a rate of $4.57 per $100 of assessed value. Loudoun Co is notorious for claiming extremely high valuations. My 2006 Ford Expedition with 250K miles on it and in need of a new air suspension pump? Worth $10,000, according to Loudoun Co. Kelly Blue Book on it was like $3k-4k. As a result, you’ll often see trailers here – especially larger ones – registered in Maine instead. You’re probably not supposed to – I’ve never done a close read of the pertinent code so I can’t speak to that – but people do it. Of course, Virginia (and pretty much every other state I’m familiar with) will not allow you to register a vehicle in another state in which you do not have domicile. Also, some VA municipalities tax certain recreational vehicles at a reduced rate.

Long story short: all that has me curious about the Euro style trailers. Could the features by which the Euro trailers differ from traditional US horse trailers potentially alter how they’re categorized/classified for registration purposes in the eyes of the DMV? i.e.: Would they fall into one of the categories of rec vehicle for which Loudoun taxes at a reduced rate? The Maine loophole closed?