I recently acquired a new horse. I have tried EVERY bit imaginable on him. He hates single joints, french links (although he does salivate well in a french link). He leaned on a happy mouth. Did not like a black rubber D bit. We tried loose ring, D ring, eggbutt. He hates rollers of any type.
He is very mouthy and tongue sensitive. He is an OTTB.
Recently I acquired a mullen mouth Kimberwick with a low port. For the first time ever, he reached down and into the bit while lunging. So I rode him. He went well and quiet with it as a snaffle and stopped decently well, and accepted the contact. But he also really yielded his head with it as a curb. With every other bit he refused to yield his head and often braced against the bit as well as mouthed it constantly… But, this bit isn’t legal.
so…
Please give me suggestions for legal bits that offer stability and maximal tongue relief.
we will continue to school in the kimberwick at home.
He sounds poorly educated in the contact. I’d go back to square one and fix the problem rather than trying to cater to him. I’d put him in a baby bit - a fat double-jointed sprenger or a rubber french link.
If you want to find something similar, you could try a mullen mouth boucher with a low port (review the attire pamphlet from USEF re: how to measure for a legal port (tongue relief) height on a snaffle). You could also try one of the ported Mylers (pics in the pamphlet/rules of the legal ones).
No, he quite likes the contact. It was a matter of finding the right bit. He is a new horse. With an unknown past, but I know he spent years with the local very renowned and respected dressage trainer. He doesn’t like the joints. I have tried many bits, including “baby” bits. He likes a bit with minimal tongue pressure, the joints irritate him to tue point of causing head tossing. I should also clarify that he picks up his contact well but any jointed bit that we have tried keeps him mouthy, unhappy, and distracted as he constantly chomps on it. When we put on the kimberwick instead of picking up distracted, mouthy contact he was light, eager, and quiet in his contact.
If he seemed to prefer the mullen mouth kimberwick then borrow or invest in an mullen mouth snaffle and give it some TIME. Your horse is only “yielding” his head because of the curb action on the kimberwick. That is why they aren’t dressage legal. To the uneducated rider, it feels better to have the horse suddenly stop leaning or bracing and “give” to the contact, but it’s not true roundness or true self carriage. The reason he doesn’t go well in any of the other bits you mentioned is because he is lacking the basics of traveling forward, straight, and in front of your leg.
Oh I totally understand this. But he does have the basics and we are working hard on this. But I also need to find a bit he likes working in which is equally important. I am considering a mullen mouth baucher as bauchers are good for tongue relief. I know that bits do not solve any training, but if he is to continue then he needs a really comfy bit (for him). The kimberwick is the only one (so far) we have found and I’ve been working him snaffle only. We’ve been completely disregarding his headset (excluding accepting and reaching for contact) and focusing on his balance and engagement which has improved TREMENDOUSLY over the past couple of weeks. He is a rescue OTTB so I know little about him but i do know he has all the dressage basics- it is a matter of helping to bring those back after years off.
And by bracing i do not mean when in a headset. I do not like to hold my horses in headsets. I work back to front. The self carriage, straightness, and engagement has to come and then the head will fall into place; this I know. By bracing I am referring to when he stops, turns, or transitions down. When any hand is applied if he braces, he reacts in the following ways: pushes head straight out, opens mouth or mouths the bit, tries to move tongue back away from the bit, and then becomes distracted due to the irritating bit. Before in a regular snaffle he would take 30-45 seconds to stop from a walk with any kind of pressure (light, alternating, vibrating). With the kimberwick as a snaffle, which he likes, he takes 3-5 to stop and is softer in his mouth and willingly retains his focus, straightness, and yielding. We still need to work on that, obviously, but he is a million times better just by changing the mouthpiece, and probably the tongue pressure too. Kimberwicks are suspended bits, which is why I am considered a mullen mouth baucher. He likes to have minimal tongue pressure. I have been told a full cheek mullen mouth is almost identical in its action when used with keepers but feel there would be little tongue relief.
Have you had his teeth checked? Could he benefit from a chiropractic adjustment of his head and neck? When you use these different bits, are you certain they, along with the rest of the bridle, are adjusted correctly based on the conformation of his mouth, jaw, and teeth?
If his teeth are floated, he’s not in any physical discomfort, and the bit/bridle combo is on correctly, then this may come back to a training issue. Have you considered riding without a bit for a while? Or bitting him in any snaffle of your choosing and riding in a halter over top of the bridle? It sounds like he needs time to adjust to whatever bit/bridle combination you end up going with.
His teeth have been done. All chiropractor work has been attended to.Each bit was adjusted correctly. He works fine with just a halter. We tried each bit for 3 to 5 days. We ended up with the kimberwick because AS ALREADY SAID he obviously likes it. Trust me on this 
And already he has improved just with a mouthpiece change 
However, I also feel he needs the tongue relief because when pressure is applied he slides his tongue back away from the bit. Of course this will mainly come with training but he does much better with a suspended bit (kimberwick)that applies no tongue pressure at rest (thus why I was considering a baucher).
There were a couple of bits you could tell immediately that he hated. We didn’t even ride in those. We have tried loose rings, eggbutts, d rings. All kinds of mouthpieces- french link, german hollow single link, single links, curved mouthpieces, straight ones, ones with rollers, rubber ones, happy mouths. I picked up a kimberwick for 2 reasons- to test the mullen mouth (I am from a remote town with very little options for bits) and to try out leverage. We are so far sticking to the snaffle (no leverage) and working on his training vs. a quick fix but he visibly likes it. But I am not sure whether it is the suspended bit, mouthpiece, or both.
Is this the same horse you’re referring to in this post?
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/dressage/10097478-groundwork-conditioning-and-training-help
Oh boy.
What country are you in? I am assuming Canada based on your name. Canada’s bit rules are unfortunately a bit more limited than American, which is why I ask. You could try a tongue relief (ported) snaffle or a snaffle with a rotating mouth piece, although both are hard to find in the diameter required in Canada.
A baucher is a type of cheek piece and has nothing to do with the mouthpiece or “tongue relief.”
From all the threads, it’s not really worth responding. In the training thread she is a trainer and knows the back story on the horse. This thread the horse is a rescue with an unknown background. She clearly wants a bit to fix everything for a show.:no: She does not want actual advice that’s good for the horse.
Um, excuse me?
You need to go back to square one with this horse. I am confused at this point since your story of the horse has changed. None of that matters however. The horse leans, braces and drops his shoulder. That tells me he is uneducated on the flat. Slow your roll with him. Pretend he’s a youngster.
I am not trying to be mean but many people on various threads of yours have said the same thing. This isn’t a bit issue, it’s a training issue. Also from the pictures, you asking too much of him. He has no muscle.
This forum is full of intelligent users who often connect the dots and consider prior posts in trying to offer advice – that is a feature of the forum, not a bug. If people weren’t trying to be helpful they’d blow smoke up your you-know-what instead of making earnest recommendations. If you’ve been lurking here for any length of time you’d probably notice that it’s not uncommon for those who contradict themselves or resist sound advice to flounce away when they don’t hear what they want to hear, and also not uncommon for longtime posters to see these situations brewing and point it out so others don’t put a lot of energy into generous advice that will fall on deaf ears. The only way to emerge victorious from a bb thread is by learning something that will help your horse. So what is it that we’re all misunderstanding about your situation that makes the general consensus advice (start over on basics) inappropriate to your situation? Help us help you instead of getting defensive.
Given everything you’ve said in this thread (ignoring the other, for the moment), it sounds like this horse isn’t very accepting of contact at the moment (I know you’ve stated that he enjoys contact, but that assertion doesn’t jibe with the rest of your description). Regardless of his history, where he’s at right now is a place where he hasn’t been comfortable with contact in any dressage-legal bit. IME, even for the ones who have peculiar mouth morphology that makes them intolerant of certain classes of bits, fixing contact issues is 5% finding the right bit, 95% training and developing better hands then you ever thought were humanly possible. It sounds like you’ve got a lot of work to do on the retraining front before it’s worth worrying about what’s legal for dressage showing. In the meantime the bit question is really whether this kimberwicke has been the best option because of leverage or because of mullen mouth or because of port/tongue relief or because of hanging cheek. Can you borrow a mullen snaffle and/or a baucher and/or a ported snaffle (e.g. Myler) from someone to try to do a bit of differential diagnosis on that front? Nobody but your horse can really answer the question at hand.
Pulling in what you’ve said in the other thread, it sounds like you work primarily in a western discipline and are retraining this horse for jumping, with dressage as a component of cross-training. You might be well served by seeking out a local dressage trainer to work with initially (or a jumping trainer, if that’s what you ultimately intend to do with this horse). Even good dressage trainers seek coaching from other trainers – there’s absolutely no shame in it.
There are so many inconsistencies within that other post, and between that post and this one, that I have to assume that the story is embellished to greater or lesser extent.
