Help me out -- Hackamores...

[jazzrider]

So I spent last night and most of this morning surfing and reading about hackamores. I’ve decided to try a hackamore for Jazz (yes, I’ve been talking about it for a while, but I’m finally motivated), who because of his injury will only be used for light riding and hacking. He has TMJ issues and really fusses with a bit in his mouth. I’ve been riding him for the past year with just a halter and clip reins, because he’s that easy. But we’re at the point where we’re ready to start riding out a bit more, and I want just a bit more control because he can be a bit opinionated when he’s in the mood (typical QH). So I’ve been surfing to learn more about hackamores, and which are the “kindest” and least likely to aggravate his TMJ issues. I think I’ve decided we’d like to try a Parelli :eek: hackamore and a bosal. I’ve been surfing for used (cheap) ones since we’re just in the experimental phase, and found a used Parelli hackamore for a nice, cheap price. I’m a little more overwhelmed by the options for a bosal.

Any advice, recommendations, links? Any alternatives?

(I will add, because it will likely be asked – we are addressing his TMJ issues. His story is long and complicated, but we are doing what we can. He can also go nicely in a bit, but he’s grumpy by nature and is less grumpy without something in his mouth. And since he’s just so good, I’d like to reward him with something kind and easy.)

Thanks for any advice you can give!

[Lilykoi]

You might check out the Bitless Bridle. You can find them on ebay in fake leather for under
$100. My mare came to me in a double wire and had some issues with it as you can imagine. Switched to a snaffle with no problem and then tried the bitless. She goes quite well and no longer has the issue of “bit anxiety”. She is also very easy to ride and whoa is not a problem. I jump her, trail ride and anything else with it. Had to jazz it up with a fancy browband, they’re a bit plain otherwise. I would reconsider a bosal. They look kind but are actually a bit tough on the nose.
Here’s where you can find the Bitless: http://www.bitlessbridle.com/
Good luck!

[horselips]

Some horses can learn to quickly avoid side-pull type hackamores by inverting their necks and sticking their noses straight up in the air. Doing this renders it useless.

I prefer a modified Little S:

http://www.barrelracer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/littles.jpg

Or modified Jim Warner:

http://www.bitsnmore.com/images/catalog

I modify them by using a round/rolled leather curb strap and wrapping the nose piece with yarn.

[katarine]

don’t do the bosal. Frankly the really good ones are pricey and the cheaper ones are crap. They are hard by design- or should be- and can be a PITA to maintain on the face- avoiding rubs, slight adjustments up/down, etc. I love them, don’t get me wrong, but unless you are using them as a training tool developing a true bridle horse, I don’t think they have a place on a trail horse’s face.

For simplicity, comfort, etc…without long shanks to bang on a water bucket- the Little S, Beetle, or Jim Warner are all good ones. I have the Little S and it’s just easy on the horse- not much ‘whoa’ but tons of lateral feel and yes- some will say it’s got a horrid, hard nose band (so adjust it loose and quit riding their darn face so much) and a dreadful curb chain (really, see above parenthetical eye rolling). I have a zillion hours on mine and for less than 40 bucks, you can’t go wrong. One thing to note it does need the stabilizing cable at the end of the shanks- but salt/sweat will eat it up…just replace with a bit of cord, or a slobber bar, or a bit of leather. Done. As with any hackamore or snaffle…a browband bridle is more stable.

[chicamuxen1]

I’ve got to say, I don’t recommend people use just a halter to ride out on trails. that is what the parelli hackamore is. It’s a halter with reins. a friend of mine really got into Parelli training and she did compete her horse in a halter but she raised this horse and did Parelli with him all the way. She insisted that her teenage daughter ride her young horse this way until the horse did a bad spook and bolt and her daughter had a bad fall. Yes, I know, sh*t happens. I just suggest you use a bit more than a halter.

I have included a couple of links to Indian Bosals below. The first link shows the Indian Bosals on the right side of the page, made of leather. The second link is a nice low cost rope type. I have one of these and find that I can ride a steady, reliable horse in this quite nicely. I wouldn’t try it for competition as that same level headed horse would exhaust me with one of these on. but you can pleasure ride pretty well in one. It’s very similar to the “bitless Bridle” except as the criss-cross pressure is down low. The Indian Bosal can be attached to any type of bridle which is a plus and keeps the cost down.

Bonnie S

http://www.outwestsaddlery.com/html/bosals____mecates.html
http://www.crazyropes.com/plinbo.html

[Icecapade]

My dad and I raced in rope halter bridles for years… my mom’s mare wasn’t as fond of them and we often layered a snaffle over the rope halter… and clipped the reins through the snaffle ring to the rope halter… it have a little more ass to the bridle without actually being a direct bit.

The rope halter bridles MUST have knots on the nose band… four is usually what it takes, two on each side. If they don’t you simply allow the horse to brace on a single solid rope essentially… the idea most easily said is an atheltic shoe, (i.e tenny) vs a high heel… which one hurts more when you step on it… the high heel… more lb/sq area. and I’m not saying its a pain thing… but there has to be something to get the horse’s attention… as someone said… s&*t happens. you have to have SOMETHING that will grab there attention.

I’m a big fan of hackamores (not mechanical) and bosals… slight difference tehcnically speaking. bosals are usually finer for a more advanced horse… hackamores have more weight and can really bang up a horses head… without any riders interferance… used them many times on greener horses who get distracted… I can give them a good twap or let them rattle around with it on their own. they are heavy enough to get their attention…

not sure I would recommend a hackamore for long rides though… they can really tear a horse’s jaw up. bosals are for a more advanced horse… so thats a training issue.

good luck!

[jazzrider]

Great info everyone. Really :yes:. I’m trying to keep reading the info out there, and I have to say I’m a little intimidated about being sure I’ve set it up/put it on right. I did buy the used Parelli hackamore this morning, since it was such a nice deal so I’ll have that to try out soon.

I’m feeling a little less sure about the bosal, so will investigate some of your other recommendations ($15 for that indian hackamore is a great deal – thanks for the link!). Will also look into the Warner and beetle hackamores.

Right now I’m just looking for inexpensive options to try – understanding that I may just turn around and resell them.

Bonnie – We only hack around our property in a halter – he hasn’t been up to more than that. I agree it’s much safer to have more control out on trail, hence my search for a hackamore that’s he’ll like. Our trail rides will likely not be more than 2 hours, on easy terrain.

If it helps guide your advice – Jazz is well trained, responsive, and not particularly forward. He will collect as if he’s on a bit when I ride him in the halter and just jiggle the rains once or twice (he has dressage training). He’s easy to turn and easy to stop. Not so easy to go. He’s extremely smart, quick to learn, and quick to manipulate. When he’s annoyed he shakes his head up and down and grits his teeth. if he were to act up on trail his usual thing is to try to walk/run backwards, or do a small little rear (lifting up only about six inches, because anything more would take too much effort). He hates any kind of discomfort. He’s a complete whimp, and a bit of a momma’s boy. My SO calls him a princess, and my BFF calls him “Little Lord Fauntelroy.” See my profile for his pic.

[Icecapade]

if he is less likely to be ‘forward’ I really wouldn’t go in a mechanical hackamore. I used to ride in one… .because the gelding I rode didn’t like bits and thats what the owner rode in (I was young and didn’t know better) it’s very hard to deal with a horse already having momentum issues forward to put a very very leverage mechanical thing on their face… it its OK for going along. I dont’ condemn anyone for using it I just never recommend them or use them anymore… you can’t finesse them or feel with the horse (not talking upper level dressage feel here). It’s very hard I think to ‘talk’ to a horse with it. There is NO lateral movement you can expect with it… only poll bending and good brakes.

If he shakes his head a lot… a medium rawhide hackamore could be useful… easy to bump around to where you need them and if they shake they beat their own heads up, it can be a bit startling for them so let them play with it a bit… first time I used it on my stallion he was so startled that it bit him when he tossed his head he nearly lost me! I laughed cause I hadn’t done anything!

[gabz]

What about a Dually Halter?

I’m not sure what would or would not affect the horse’s TMJ…

I have read that some endurance riders have used the Monty Robert’s dually halter instead of bitted bridles. It is essentially, a web halter with 2 rounded “cords” with rings on either end, that pass through the lower cheek ring on the halter.

Similar in function to a side-pull,except that it provides nose pressure.
I’ll try to find a photo / link and come back.
http://www.montyroberts.com/shop_tack_training.html#

[jazzrider]

Thanks Gabz for the link :). I’m still researching, and trying to find used options to buy and try out.

So far I’ve got a Parelli hackamore coming, and an indian hackamore that I can borrow to try out.

I really would like to try a bitless bridle (Dr. Cooks), but they are just too expensive and I can’t seem to find any used.

Any opinions on an English jumping hackamore? Not that we’ll be doing any jumping, but it looks simple, not harsh, would attach nicely to his existing bridle, and I found a used one cheap.

[craz4crtrs]

 Years ago I used the mech type. Hate them now, way too severe and too much leverage. Exceptions are the Little S (if you are careful, any bit or hack can be severe) and the cloverleaf hack.

My horses are all different in their preferences. All my horses are very well trained and are regularly ridden in plain snaffles, but are also used to curb bits and their favorite hacks.

Gator - 24 yr old arab gelding. He works in the bosal, but prefers a cloverleaf type of hack (kind of like the Little S but with a leather noseband and independent shanks). http://www.horse.com/zoomimages.aspx?sku=WBE12 Similar to a leverage type english jumping hack. The noseband english hack is just a side pull, but not as stable. He likes a western type sidepull, too. http://www.horse.com/zoomimages.aspx?sku=WCB56 Rope halter is fine, too.

Gem - 27 yr old qh gelding. He loves the bosal, fine in the clover leaf. Not as good in a halter, fine in the sidepull.

Toby - 13 yr old fjordX gelding. He works well in a bosal, as long as it isn’t too hard or snug. He likes a half inch one and a 3/8 super soft flexible bosal. Very sensitive horse. He hates the clover leaf hack, too much pressure, even though it is so mild. He loves a sidepull, unfortunately he needs a 17 inch browband, so most of the rack western bridles don’t fit him. I also used a Cook’s bridle on him and he hated it. Too much leverage/pressure for him. Same thing on the indian type hack. He can’t stand anything that doesn’t release fast enough.

I wish I could get a loping hackamore to fit my fjordX, he would love that and so would the others, but they work well in so many other things. The 17 inch browband is the issue again. [IMG]http://www.nrsworld.com/istarimages/mp/DM-112!DENMO-917433.jpg)

Just some ideas.

[system]

Hello. I use a mechanical hackamore on my mare because she does better in it than a snaffle. I also use just a rope halter and reins, actually most of the time, but I use the MH on the trail for a bit more control if needed. I like to think that I have light hands and a quick release. I actually do get lateral flexion in the MH (we practice a lot).

Originally I only got the MH because that is what the former owner used to ride her in and I wasn’t aware it had such a bad rap.

I’d like to hear more on you guys’ opinions as to whether you think I ‘should’ continue to use it if it seems to be working well, or if not, some specific reasons (more explanation on how it functions and why you think it’s detrimental to the horse) why I should not. Thanks!

I looked at a lot of those links above and I like the cloverleaf style one…I initially wanted to try the indian bosal, but then I didn’t think it looked conducive to a quick release. I’m not familiar with the little S. Is it’s main difference less leverage?

[sublimequine]

[QUOTE=Janelle123;3574544]
Hello. I use a mechanical hackamore on my mare because she does better in it than a snaffle. I also use just a rope halter and reins, actually most of the time, but I use the MH on the trail for a bit more control if needed. I like to think that I have light hands and a quick release. I actually do get lateral flexion in the MH (we practice a lot).

Originally I only got the MH because that is what the former owner used to ride her in and I wasn’t aware it had such a bad rap.

I’d like to hear more on you guys’ opinions as to whether you think I ‘should’ continue to use it if it seems to be working well, or if not, some specific reasons (more explanation on how it functions and why you think it’s detrimental to the horse) why I should not. Thanks!

I looked at a lot of those links above and I like the cloverleaf style one…I initially wanted to try the indian bosal, but then I didn’t think it looked conducive to a quick release. I’m not familiar with the little S. Is it’s main difference less leverage?[/QUOTE]

I think if the horse goes really well in the mech hack, then there’s no issue sticking with it. BUT I also believe a horse should go in the simplest, gentlest option you can muster successfully. Sometimes it’s not an overnight thing either, but a gradual “step down” through a few hacks and setups.

For example, I rode my mare in a “big hack” for quite a long time. It’s the plain mechanical hackamore with the long 8in shanks. She went just fine in it, no problems, but it wasn’t ideal for trail rides because the dang shanks were so long they’d drag on the ground when she was trying to graze! :lol:

So I started searching for another mechanical hack with shorter shanks. Tried a few that are unsuccessful because maresie didn’t like the feel of them, but FINALLY after about 4 or 5 months I found a used english mech hackamore on ebay, that the shanks have actually been bent outward slightly. This way, the shanks kind of “float” away from maresie’s face, and don’t bother her like the other smaller hacks did. So we went in that for I’d say 4 months or so.

Finally, got to try a bitless bridle by cook. That’s what she’s currently going in. She goes well in it, and honestly I have all the responsiveness in it than I did in the “big hack”, but it’s a lot simpler and way less leverage involved. BUT, I think if I had tried going straight from the big hack to the bitless bridle, it would’ve been a bit tricky. Going from the big hack, to the small hack, to the bitless has worked wonderfully.

Eventually I may try and move her all the way down to a sidepull (she’s kinda heavy in a sidepull at the moment, she knows she can lean on them and have me hold her head for her with the reins, the brat! :lol: ), but for now she’s really going well in the bitless bridle and my cues are no stronger than in the big hack. So I definitely consider that a sucess. :yes:

[SarahR]

I use a Spanish Jaquima on my Paso Fino mare. She’s great in it, very responsive and backs up with the lightest touch:

noseband: http://www.casadosa.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=194

curb:
http://www.casadosa.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=156

You can put them on a regular headstall. Here’s what it looks like set up (mine has the above noseband and curb):
http://www.casadosa.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=137

My husband has been riding our TWH colt in a loping hackamore and he’s doing great in it. They aren’t cheap either (ours is borrowed…need to set aside some $$$ to get our own).

Sarah in Durango
www.fourcornerstrails.com
I’m sure you could find them on eBay for less, too.

[jeano]

I’ve always wanted to try this set up, but since both my critters go fine in a bit…havent coughed up the dough
http://www.hought.com/end.s.hackamore.html

[jazzrider]

Just a quick update. I’m still waiting on the Parelli hackamore. The seller got a new horse and may flake out on selling it to me (even though I’ve already send a check). In the mean time, I’ve ordered and got this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lower-Side-Pull-Rope-Halter-Hackamore-Bitless-Bridle_W0QQitemZ320237967290QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3177QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

I chose it after much discussion with the wonderful person who sells them, who gave me good advice. This is one of the mildest hackamores she sells and a good start. I rode Jazzy in it for the first time today and he didn’t seem to mind it at all. It may actually may be too mild – but we’ll see. We just rode in the ring and around the property – so I need to do a test ride off property when he’s a bit more zippy. But we seem to like it.

[katarine]

??seriously?? That’s second rate sidepull at best. It’s a rope halter…retied so you have two knots offset at the bottom instead of one.

Ok, well, all righty then. I need to get better at renaming something and making money off it as new and improved.

[saratoga]

[QUOTE=jeano;3575603]
I’ve always wanted to try this set up, but since both my critters go fine in a bit…havent coughed up the dough
http://www.hought.com/end.s.hackamore.html[/QUOTE]

I have the S Hackamore bridle from Hought and I love it. Took me awhile to buy it because its quite $$$, but it was worth the price.

Before that, for many years for endurance, I used a big ol’ mechanical hackamore with huge shanks because I had one laying around and I started to use it and it worked fine. You just need to have really good hands for those though, or the horse is going to be really uncomfortable and reactive. It worked fine for me though- tons of control and I only had to put the tiniest amount of pressure on it to get a response…Then I bought the S-hack bridle set up because the smaller shanks and lighter weight appealed to me. It works well for all 3 of my horses, definitely not as much “whoa” but works fine, seems comfortable for them and they all respond well to it.

I wouldnt want to ride in any kind of halter either.

[jazzrider]

[QUOTE=katarine;3575990]
??seriously?? That’s second rate sidepull at best. It’s a rope halter…retied so you have two knots offset at the bottom instead of one.

Ok, well, all righty then. I need to get better at renaming something and making money off it as new and improved.[/QUOTE]

I wanted to start with the kindest, simplest hackamore and work myself up from there – remember, we’ve never used any hackamore on this horse before. I also was looking for something inexpensive to try – and this one fit the bill. Can’t talk to whether it’s a new or old design, or whether it’s first or second rate – and it doesn’t matter to me. We’re in the trial phase right now, and we’re giving it a try.

Seems to me that the Parelli hackamore for over $100 that’s made of rope is a bigger rip off.

[Countryclips]

When I started training my 2 Rockies at age 3 I used a rope sidepull and they did wonderfull. This fall I decided to use a bit but they did not like it. so put an old fleece lined leather short shank hack on each of them and was amazed at how well they did with it. They gaited great and stopped really well. I tried it out on several other horses I have and each did super. The only one that did poor was a 6 year old MFT that I just started riding in August after some rehab from an abusive trainer. She just does not understand yet how to give to pressure so fights it. But for an inexpensive hackamore I can’t complain. Now is this one supposed to be harsh? It has a chain chinstrap.