Help me stop leaning forward in the canter

[mydogs]

I’ve finally mustered up the gut to watch videos and pictures of my rides. I’ve spent the last few months learning how to influence my horse’s walk and trot with my seat. Now, I am working on the canter. My horse is big and I am small, so I have a lot of strength building to do still but am getting better.

The biggest thing that I need to work on is sitting “up/back” in the “up” phase of the canter. I tend to lean forward/close my hip angle, which means I don’t have as much influence with my seat/legs. I think this tends to happen when I am passively following too much with the horse versus trying to actively follow.

I try to think more weight in my stirrups, which does help me sit up and look more “still” in the saddle, but when I start thinking about other things (ie: turning or movements), I revert back to my habit of leaning forward and maybe having too much weight in the saddle and not enough down my legs/stirrups.

I think when I try to actively follow my horse and use my core & lower back more, I don’t lean forward as much. I did see that in some photos I very slightly round my lower back.

Sorry, not sure how to explain in words what I do in the saddle. Still going through a trial and error of what works and what happens when I do the right and “wrong” things.

Any advice from others who may have also leaned forward in the canter and learned how to sit up throughout the whole movement?

[2tempe]

Its hard, absolutely. I still struggle with this also, particularly with the changes. a couple thoughts: as you said, this is about your core you dont want more weight in stirrups but you do want to think lower center of gravity. (those spanish riding school riders learn w/ NO stirrups) Do you have someone who can help you with longe line work?
Short work sets - put yourself in your correct position, Canter maybe a a few large circles concentrating on belly button forward, head up, no grip in thighs/knees and no hanging on reins. Stop, regroup, to it again.

Dont know what level your horse is at, but I actually find it easier to focus on not leaning when I do a bit of lateral work. Put the horse in a shoulder fore; do a thought of half pass. dont worry about the quality of the movement here, just focus on your body.
Eyes on ground, invaluable.

[rockonxox]

My horse is bouncy at the canter and heavy in my hands so we kind of snowball each other. If he gets off balance he leans and I go with him and then he leans more and… you get the picture. My instructor has been working with me a lot with no stirrups and no reins on the lunge line which has been incredibly helpful. If I start to lean with no stirrups or reins I can really tell when I’m doing it and my horse gets all discombobulated so it is either fix my position and get back into balance or we’re in for a very bumpy messy ride. We have also switched bits to one that he doesn’t lean on and he is now starting to not rely on the bit for balance. It is still a struggle and I find it hard to resist the urge to lean with him since it is a bad habit, but there has been improvement. Another thing we have been working on is to do sitting trot to canter transitions with only 5-6 steps of canter and back to trot - focusing on smooth transitions (no leaning into them) and keeping the seat in the saddle. We’ll repeat this multiple times.

[Magicboy]

A biomechanics trainer suggested concentrating on the triangle of your lower back, just below your belt when you canter
that image and body consciousness helped me

[atlatl]

I’m working on the same thing after watching video from last weekend. This is a “following mechanics” issue for the rider, specifically, people tend to pump their upper body instead of following the horse’s motion with their arms.

A recent clinician also emphasized that you need to half halt (take) with the horse’s neck comes up in the canter and give when it’s going down. Again, more of the “following” stuff.

So, for me, I’m concentrating on “shoulders over hips, hips under shoulders” and following with elastic elbows.

Good Luck!

[socaldressgal11]

I had a similar problem. I am very strict with my rider mechanics and wanted to get to the root of the problem. For me, getting a saddle with a straight knee roll helped A TON!!! The angled external ones threw my body and legs forward. Second, the hips were way too tight. There are some dressage stretching videos on YOUTUBE that you can watch that were extremely helpful! Good luck!

[SonnysMom]

For many years I was a hunter rider. It has taken me a long time to learn to sit up. I have finally had 2 lesson in a row where my trainer has not had to tell me sit back.
I found the big thing that helps me at the canter is to think of leading with my pelvis and opening the hips/thighs/knee. I tend to be tight from the knee up and then pivot off the knee which causes me to tilt forward.

I agree with dressagenurse23 about the knee rolls. I recently bought my first dressage saddle. I am very short legged. The shape and length of the knee roll made a huge difference in my position. I got to try 3 saddles all in the space of a half an hour so I could really feel that difference. One of the longer straighter ones pushed my knee back and made the saddle seem too small. The one I eventually bought has a little bit of a curve in the block for my knee.

[allons-y]

I had no lessons of any kind until I was well in my 30’s. Decades of defensive riding on recalcitrant beasts left me with a lot of work to do. My Dressage instructor always said to sit back until I felt I was too far back – then I was perfect! It took years to develop the correct muscle memory. For cross country it was always " sit up, sit back, sit down" to get me out of perched monkey when I approached a fence. You’ll find some words that work for you. Then repeat them to yourself endlessly at first. Good luck, you can do it.

[Samantha37]

I struggle with pumping my upper body at the canter, especially when we start working on the pirouette canter- I get ahead of his motion. I have found that making sure I am sitting correctly (basically think sitting on your back pockets to tuck your hips under) and then in the moment I want to lean forward, actually think stretch my hip flexors and get taller and increase the space between my upper body/chest and my hands. The thought of stretching/elongating the hip flexors in the moment I want to lean really helps me sit up taller and not move around so much.

[piedmontfields]

I just audited a Suzanne von Dietz clinic and she offered a lot of helpful information on opening the hips at the canter. Her books and videos are great, so I’d recommend checking them out, even though the books can be a bit dense and detailed.

One exercise she used on multiple riders was to have them stand up in a “standing dressage seat” at the canter, so that their hips were more open and weight went down their legs (you can use on hand on the back of the cantle to help you balance if needed). Riders also needed to really stretch and open the line of their front body in this standing seat. Every time the horse’s leading front leg meets the ground, think of opening your hips a little more.

You can also practice standing dressage seat at trot. I’m finding it very helpful! You’ll know you have it correct at canter when the horse easily maintains the canter on their own, find their own self-feeding energy.

[Texarkana]

Add me to the club! I realize that as a former hunter rider and racehorse rider, I never learned how to sit the canter. Sure, I could sit back for the lope on a western horse… but I have 30+ years of muscle memory telling me to hover in a half seat at the canter.

I had to laugh at SonnysMom’s comment about having two lessons in a row with the instructor not telling her to sit back. A couple weeks ago, I had a lesson where my instructor never once said it… I thought maybe I was finally cured! Nope, she was back at it again this week. :lol:

Check the balance on your saddle. The cantle of my saddle was sitting lower than ideal, contributing to my forward pitch; adding some thin shims behind helped considerably.

Echoing what others have said, I’ve also been noticing that for me, if I can loosen/open my hips, it’s easier to sit back. This has involved some compromises in position as I’m retraining my body at the canter-- if I open my knee and take some weight out of my stirrups, I feel more comfortable sitting back.

I also have been trying to “stretch” in the saddle at the beginning of rides: put my legs forward in front of the flap to find my seat bones, let them hang down and lift them outwards to stretch my hips, spend several minutes walking without stirrups while I stretch my legs downward, etc. My spazzy, impatient horse is just now tolerating these things!

[Scribbler]

When I’m sitting the canter in a dressage saddle, I physically flash back to riding Western as a kid. Your butt just never leaves the saddle and rolls with the horse. The legs just hang.

Also of course the canter is an asymmetrical gait and if you push your pelvis on the leading side very slightly forward you can follow with your hips with a slight scooping motion.

I suppose though the fix might depend on why you are leaning forward.

Are you a very experienced hunter or jumper rider who is getting into two point from muscle memory?

Are you transferring over from intermediate hunter jumper land and never learned to sit a canter?

Or are you sitting the canter but just tipping forward from the waist? If so what else is going on? Are your lower legs sliding back, or are your hands coming back into your crotch?

With a bad position habit it’s always useful to think: what do I feel I’m gaining from this habit? Why does leaning forward feel natural to you?

Is it defensive like the poster above who rode the wild ones as a kid?

Do you feel like you lose balance when you sit up?

Are your stirrups the wrong length?

And finally is your tilt so extreme that your riding looks funky by any standards, or is it just that you are not quite making the super tall dressage seat by a few degrees?

[lorilu]

Two ideas. 1. Mental imagery: I think of those Western Pleasure queens, sitting up and tall…
2. Leading with hips - try leaning WAAAAY back at the canter. Hold on to the pommel if you want. (Do it in a round pen or on a lunge line). THis will give you the feeling of leading with the hips. THen bit by bit sit up straighter.

And something else to think about: H/J riders begin with a slightly forward lean, and close their upper bodies in the up phase of the canter (first step of the stride, on the outside hind). Dressage riders start more upright and lean a bit back when the horse lands on the leading leg (third phase of the canter stride) as their hips are pulled forward. So,the hips are pulled forward rather than the shoulders falling forward… Try watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ho--yXXNu3A

[SuzieQNutter]

Make sure you are looking up. Start your position with your heels and build your foundation from there. Open your shoulders. Open your thighs.

Sit on your bum and look up.

Lead with your pelvis.

If all else fails ride with your hand behind your back.

[Mondo]

This is a fun thread. I would say if any of these mantras or visualizations help, then go for it! If I was you instructor, the first thing I would do is remove your stirrups. Yes, you can lean forward in the canter without irons, but it’s a lot harder, as is 2 point position. Try riding the canter without stirrups for awhile. You can feel how much easier it is when you sit up straight.

[Buckshot1]

Whenever I have a problem with my seat in the canter my cure is always a couple days of bareback riding. Of course I have nice quiet comfy horses that are safe to canter bareback on - if you don’t have access to that, 100% just do it without stirrups instead.

Also maybe google stretches for your hip flexors. I find that as well as the physical benefit they bring, they help me isolate the feeling of open hips in my brain, so I can visual and reproduce it in the saddle.

Good luck

[KBC]

Years of bad practice have me straight into forward seat canter, or pumping, or rowing…le sigh I have nothing helpful to add, but feel great to find fellow sufferers, and thinking about the suggestions offered. Thanks everyone who is making suggestions.

[tbchick84]

If you want to try a rather tough love option, ride with a crop in the front of your pants. Any time you get in front of the vertical, you’ll whack yourself in the face.

A less comical but more practical option is to stretch before you ride, do arm circles and hip stretches while you’re warming up, and then really concentrate on growing tall while cantering. Put your inside arm up over your head and stretch as you canter.

[SolarFlare]

@SonnysMom

For many years I was a hunter rider. It has taken me a long time to learn to sit up. I have finally had 2 lesson in a row where my trainer has not had to tell me sit back.
I found the big thing that helps me at the canter is to think of leading with my pelvis and opening the hips/thighs/knee. I tend to be tight from the knee up and then pivot off the knee which causes me to tilt forward.

I agree with dressagenurse23 about the knee rolls. I recently bought my first dressage saddle. I am very short legged. The shape and length of the knee roll made a huge difference in my position. I got to try 3 saddles all in the space of a half an hour so I could really feel that difference. One of the longer straighter ones pushed my knee back and made the saddle seem too small. The one I eventually bought has a little bit of a curve in the block for my knee.

The above is true for me too! Spent about 30 years riding hunters and either never learned how to sit properly or never practiced enough for it to stick. It also works for me to think of leading with the pelvis. My instructor says “push the saddle in front of you with your hips” which works for me. I too remember when I had a couple lessons where my instructor didn’t once tell me to sit back - I even called her out on it at the end but she said I was doing a better job (finally!).

I also had a bad locked elbows issue from years and years of carrying my hands in front of me up the neck and not having any real contact. The half-halt on the “up” phase of the canter and give on the down is exactly what my instructor has me practice. It feels very strange at first, because I had gotten into a backwards habit of the exact opposite, so my timing was off. Months of concentrating on it and it’s much better, although on occasion I revert back (especially if my horse is having a very excitable moment). At least now I can feel that I’m backwards and can then fix it.

Another thing that worked more at the beginning when I was still learning to sit in a full seat was to canter with very long reins. I think this was to take my locked elbows out of the equation so they didn’t pull me out of the saddle.

Not sure about the effect of knee rolls - my saddle is a 90s Crosby with zero rolls/padding/assistance. I figured since I had no idea how to ride in a dressage saddle when I bought it, at least it wouldn’t force me into any particular position. It fit my horse and I got it for a steal so it was worth taking a chance. However, my horse isn’t a big mover (TB) so I don’t need a big saddle to lock me in.

[Dutchmare433]

This is something I work on constantly, and I get particularly sucked into tipping forward in the changes. After working a lot to strengthen my core and back, I am physically capable of sitting down and back. For me, looking up, either straight forward, or exaggerating and actually looking upwards really helps it. If I take away the visual part (ie, looking at my horse’s neck/head) I don’t get sucked forward.