Help me understand the new 'green' rules, please

[snaffle635]

Maybe it’s because it’s Monday, but I can’t seem to understand these rules.

http://ushja.org/content/e-updates/enewsUpdate/Articles/GreenHuntersDecember.html

My mare competed in the 3’ pre-greens in September and October 2015. She then competed in the 3’ pre-greens for all of 2016. Does this mean we have used up our 2-year allotment at both 3’ and 3’3"?

Which green division can she compete in for 2017? Only the 3’6" green?

Does the 2-year limit at 3’0" and 3’3" supersede the section about remaining eligible for 3’3" until the horse has done 5 shows at 3’6"?

If I want her to do 3’3", would she need to do the 3’3" Performance Hunters?

Also, do the new rules mean that 3’ and 3’3" hunters will now jog?

Thanks!

[EmilyM]

I don’t know, but I assume Green 3’ and 3’3 (formerly pregreens) will now jog for soundness because they will be A rated.

If your horse is 6 years old or younger, she can do the young hunter 3’3 i believe despite what she has done previously. I realize that is probably unlikely, however.

That is what I interpret.

What i’m curious about is the Young Hunters. What rating will they have, and will they be offered at indoors.

[caryledee]

Young Hunter is C rated and all Green sections will jog.

I believe you are correct; since you had 2 competition years at 3’ you would now have to move up to 3’ 6". You might want to check with the hunter department at USEF on this though. I think #8 would only apply to a horse that is showing 3’ 3" and 3’ 6" in the same competition year.

[ponyflyer]

[QUOTE=snaffle635;8885411]
Maybe it’s because it’s Monday, but I can’t seem to understand these rules.

http://ushja.org/content/e-updates/enewsUpdate/Articles/GreenHuntersDecember.html

My mare competed in the 3’ pre-greens in September and October 2015. She then competed in the 3’ pre-greens for all of 2016. Does this mean we have used up our 2-year allotment at both 3’ and 3’3"?

Which green division can she compete in for 2017? Only the 3’6" green?

Does the 2-year limit at 3’0" and 3’3" supersede the section about remaining eligible for 3’3" until the horse has done 5 shows at 3’6"?

If I want her to do 3’3", would she need to do the 3’3" Performance Hunters?

Also, do the new rules mean that 3’ and 3’3" hunters will now jog?

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Hi,

Thanks for your questions regarding the green rules. Here are some answers:

1. Yes, you have used up your green 3’0/3’3" allotment. A horse may compete in a combination of 3’ and/or 3’3" for a total of 2 years. This includes any 3’/3’3" class in hunters or equitation at USEF Recognized shows. There are jumper restrictions on height once a horse has entered by hunter system.

2. Your horse will change eligibility as of 12/1/16 and will be eligible to compete in the 3’6". Until that date your horse will still be eligible as a Green 3’/3’3" (Pre-Green).

3. See above for the 2 year restriction. The horse may compete 4 times at 3’6" and still move back to Green 3’3". The fifth time, their new status becomes 3’6" Green. A horse may not move back from 3’6" to 3’.

4. If you want to continue in 3’3" then, yes, Performance Hunter 3’3" would be the correct choice.

5. Yes, Green 3’ and 3’3" will jog.

As an aside, the Young Hunters will be an A rated section but will not jog.

I hope that helps!

Mary Babick
mbabick13@gmail.com

[fourfillies]

Thank you Mary.
I’ll add another question if you’ll beg my indulgence/hijack:

5yo turning 6 in the spring. Showed as 3’ PreGreen this year. With the rule change she still may show as a Green horse in 2017 (3’ or 3’3" or a combination thereof), C rated. She is also eligible for the 3’3" Young Horse 6yo division? May she do both Green at 3’ and Young horse 3’3" divisions? Both at the same show?

[HJdaydream]

Hi Mary, I also have a quick question about the young horse division.

My horse’s breed papers say he turns 6 on 5/21 next year. Theoretically, could I start out the year doing the 3’0 for 5 yr olds, then switch to the 3’3" for 6 yrs after his birthday?

[snaffle635]

[QUOTE=ponyflyer;8886625]
Hi,

Thanks for your questions regarding the green rules. Here are some answers:

1. Yes, you have used up your green 3’0/3’3" allotment. A horse may compete in a combination of 3’ and/or 3’3" for a total of 2 years. This includes any 3’/3’3" class in hunters or equitation at USEF Recognized shows. There are jumper restrictions on height once a horse has entered by hunter system.

2. Your horse will change eligibility as of 12/1/16 and will be eligible to compete in the 3’6". Until that date your horse will still be eligible as a Green 3’/3’3" (Pre-Green).

3. See above for the 2 year restriction. The horse may compete 4 times at 3’6" and still move back to Green 3’3". The fifth time, their new status becomes 3’6" Green. A horse may not move back from 3’6" to 3’.

4. If you want to continue in 3’3" then, yes, Performance Hunter 3’3" would be the correct choice.

5. Yes, Green 3’ and 3’3" will jog.

As an aside, the Young Hunters will be an A rated section but will not jog.

I hope that helps!

Mary Babick
mbabick13@gmail.com[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for answering my question, Mary. Congrats on your election as President of USHJA!

[LovesHorses]

99% percent sure horses by USEF/USHJA rules turn a year older on Jan 1, like racehorses.

[QUOTE=HJdaydream;8886709]
Hi Mary, I also have a quick question about the young horse division.

My horse’s breed papers say he turns 6 on 5/21 next year. Theoretically, could I start out the year doing the 3’0 for 5 yr olds, then switch to the 3’3" for 6 yrs after his birthday?[/QUOTE]

[PNWjumper]

[QUOTE=HJdaydream;8886709]
Hi Mary, I also have a quick question about the young horse division.

My horse’s breed papers say he turns 6 on 5/21 next year. Theoretically, could I start out the year doing the 3’0 for 5 yr olds, then switch to the 3’3" for 6 yrs after his birthday?[/QUOTE]

I agree with LovesHorses.

If they run the ages like they do in the jumper ring, your horse turns 6 on 1/1/2017. IOW, for the first part of the year he’s the age he will turn that year.

[ponyflyer]

[QUOTE=fourfillies;8886685]
Thank you Mary.
I’ll add another question if you’ll beg my indulgence/hijack:

5yo turning 6 in the spring. Showed as 3’ PreGreen this year. With the rule change she still may show as a Green horse in 2017 (3’ or 3’3" or a combination thereof), C rated. She is also eligible for the 3’3" Young Horse 6yo division? May she do both Green at 3’ and Young horse 3’3" divisions? Both at the same show?[/QUOTE]

Hi Fourfillies,

Your horse will be eligible as a will be eligible for the green 3’/3’3" as she will be doing her second year of pre-green. She will be eligible for the 6 year olds (a 3’3" section). She may do both at the same show if they are both offered.

Also, she must be age verified which means that you must submit a copy of your horse’s breed papers or passport to USEF. That can be done by scanning and uploading them to USEF.

Thanks for asking!

Mary Babick
mbabick13@gmail.com

[ponyflyer]

[QUOTE=HJdaydream;8886709]
Hi Mary, I also have a quick question about the young horse division.

My horse’s breed papers say he turns 6 on 5/21 next year. Theoretically, could I start out the year doing the 3’0 for 5 yr olds, then switch to the 3’3" for 6 yrs after his birthday?[/QUOTE]

If your horse turns 6 in 2017 he will show as a 6 year old. Because our year starts in December, a horse that turns 6 in 2017 will show for 1 month as technically a 5 year old.

Thanks for asking!

Mary Babick
mbabick13@gmail.com

[MHM]

So what happens if you have a young horse with no passport or breed papers? Is it ineligible to show in anything with an age restriction?

[JenEM]

[QUOTE=MHM;8887082]
So what happens if you have a young horse with no passport or breed papers? Is it ineligible to show in anything with an age restriction?[/QUOTE]

I was wondering about that, too. What happens if in a few years, I get a 3YO TB off the track, who will by then have a chip and be DNA verified, but often comes off without papers. What happens if I have my pro put in a few years of work, and want to show it in the 5YO or 6YO hunters? Now, I have the PHR as an option (and actually have my current TB registered with them), but that’s disappearing.

[ponyflyer]

[QUOTE=MHM;8887082]
So what happens if you have a young horse with no passport or breed papers? Is it ineligible to show in anything with an age restriction?[/QUOTE]

Horses without breed papers or passport are not eligible. The registries are quite willing to help find lost documentation. Some registries are willing to assist in getting a horse identified. Many of the registries will be attending the USHJA Annual Meeting to answer questions.

The Jockey Club is also very helpful in finding a horse’s birth name. I have been in touch with them to find out what to do regarding unregistered TBs.

This will be a learning process for sure.

Thanks,

Mary Babick
mbabick13@gmail.com

[JustJump]

Why doesn’t USEF simply issue national passports (provided documentation is verified by a foaling certificate from a vet)?

[MHM]

@ponyflyer;8887293

Horses without breed papers or passport are not eligible. The registries are quite willing to help find lost documentation. Some registries are willing to assist in getting a horse identified. Many of the registries will be attending the USHJA Annual Meeting to answer questions.

The Jockey Club is also very helpful in finding a horse’s birth name. I have been in touch with them to find out what to do regarding unregistered TBs.

Thanks for the information. I believe that sometimes Thoroughbreds coming off the track are sold without their papers to make sure they can’t race again. With the renewed interest in the Thoroughbred divisions at USEF shows, I hope this will be addressed. And some horses of various breeds don’t get registered in the first place.

Congrats on your new position!

[tuckawayfarm]

[QUOTE=JustJump;8887537]
Why doesn’t USEF simply issue national passports (provided documentation is verified by a foaling certificate from a vet)?[/QUOTE]

Good question, and one I’ve been asking for the past two years as this rule moved through committee. Originally I was advised there was to be a provision in place for Warmblood breeders (like me) who occasionally use privately owned high performance stallions not approved with the Euro based registries. Age would be able to be verified by vets who did the breeding and subsequent foal exams. That provision was not part of the final rule.

USEF will give foals a Lifetime Recording at a significant discount during their birth year if provided with proof of age verified by the vet who examined the newborn foal. Why they don’t consider that same foal as “age verified” makes no sense.

[Sueby]

As much as I grumble about Equestrian Canada, our passports are useful sometimes.

So I’m a bit clueless with this all. As we (mostly) mimic USEF rule changes and such, does this mean that only registered horses can show in the pre-green divisions? I’m probably interpreting this all wrong… wouldn’t be the first time :winkgrin:

[findeight]

[QUOTE=tuckawayfarm;8888074]
Good question, and one I’ve been asking for the past two years as this rule moved through committee. Originally I was advised there was to be a provision in place for Warmblood breeders (like me) who occasionally use privately owned high performance stallions not approved with the Euro based registries. Age would be able to be verified by vets who did the breeding and subsequent foal exams. That provision was not part of the final rule.

USEF will give foals a Lifetime Recording at a significant discount during their birth year if provided with proof of age verified by the vet who examined the newborn foal. Why they don’t consider that same foal as “age verified” makes no sense. [/QUOTE]

That sounds very reasonable. As a USEF member, I’d support that option for age verification. That would be very difficult to falsify (even for the more clever offenders) if it’s required to be officially submitted and recorded in the foals birth year.

[tuckawayfarm]

[QUOTE=Sueby;8888146]
As much as I grumble about Equestrian Canada, our passports are useful sometimes.

So I’m a bit clueless with this all. As we (mostly) mimic USEF rule changes and such, does this mean that only registered horses can show in the pre-green divisions? I’m probably interpreting this all wrong… wouldn’t be the first time :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Yes, it does mean registration is required to show in these divisions.

Another win for the European Imports. Registration is extremely cheap and easy overseas, but can cost a US based breeder up to $1000.00+ per foal. Add the high cost of training and showing and it’s understandable why the American breeders complain about the lack of a level playing field.

PHR has been able to provide these foals with registration papers at a very reasonable cost, but they are closing shop just as this new rule is taking effect. Apparently, some of the Euro based registries are planning to accommodate the breeders affected, albeit at a higher fee.

The idea that I have to send money overseas to show my US born and bred youngsters in their age appropriate classes at USEF open shows definitely rubs me the wrong way. I admit I am too fiscally conservative to pay the much higher costs of registering them domestically.