Part of the ettiquette of the arena is to ask for permission to enter before you open the gate or step your horse into the arena.
@SnicklefritzG
Your are right I was being rude. I apologize to the OP. But the rest of my comment still stands.
I rarely have had issues at places where I worked in college. I learned how to smile and nod. Then leave a short message for the BO if I couldn’t talk to them in person. I just get tired of barn workers getting treated second rate treatment from boarders.
One persons yelling is another’s making sure they are heard across the ring when they were previously ignored.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8979064]
Part of the ettiquette of the arena is to ask for permission to enter before you open the gate or step your horse into the arena.[/QUOTE]
It’s not really “asking permission”.
It’s giving a head’s up. Sure, if horse-in-arena is at the moment blowing up and galloping heedlessly, the person in the arena should give warning not to come in, for reasons of safety.
But practically, you’re giving head’s-up so an not to startle the rider/horse inside. Unless they’re the BO, or have exclusively rented the arena for a period of time, or something similar, the person in the arena doesn’t get to decide if the other person may or may not come in, just because they were there first.
[QUOTE=dkcbr;8978475]
I am not sure what the right answer is to your restaurant scenario. For me, the customer bumping into me would bother me more than the rude server. That’s because with the rude server, I have the choices of either trying to jolly him/her out of the bad mood, complain to the manager, or leave an evaluation of the service by way of a lower tip.
However, I am nearly powerless to do anything about the customer bumping into me. My only alternative in that case is to call attention to it and demand an apology - not happening. [/QUOTE]
That’s funny, because that’s exactly why I would be more annoyed with the server! The person bumping into me - whatever, people suck sometimes, oh well. The server - it’s literally their job to “serve” you food and take care of your needs at that moment in time.
99 times out of 100, it’s you bumping the server. they are really, really trying to avoid hitting you. You are generally the one not paying attention.
Abstract restaurant patron, not you specifically.
[QUOTE=ladyj79;8979433]
99 times out of 100, it’s you bumping the server. they are really, really trying to avoid hitting you. You are generally the one not paying attention.
Abstract restaurant patron, not you specifically.[/QUOTE]
:lol::yes: No the example scenario was a Server getting all huffy and acting inconvenienced about you asking for a drink refill, compared to a random customer bumping into you in the bathroom and glaring at you.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8979064]
Part of the ettiquette of the arena is to ask for permission to enter before you open the gate or step your horse into the arena.[/QUOTE]
You’re saying I should ask permission for use of the facilities I pay for, as a client per a legal agreement, when there are no lessons being taught? I think you’re a little confused. This is a boarding facility. One boarder/employee/whatever is not permitted to monopolize the ring because they see everyone else as an inconvenience. I work my riding times around lessons, not rude employees.
[QUOTE=alterfe;8979562]
You’re saying I should ask permission for use of the facilities I pay for, as a client per a legal agreement, when there are no lessons being taught? I think you’re a little confused. This is a boarding facility. One boarder/employee/whatever is not permitted to monopolize the ring because they see everyone else as an inconvenience. I work my riding times around lessons, not rude employees.[/QUOTE]
I honestly get the feeling that you’re not really interested in working it out with this person, and you’re here for validation. If you really wanted a solution to the issue, the full situation would have been laid out. When you didn’t hear what you wanted to hear, the tack store backstory came out. It’s possible the issue carried over from the tack store, and it’s also possible that you’re so USED to this person being difficult that you treat them like you’re expecting them to be difficult, which tends to invite difficult behavior.
Yup.
I can honestly say, having been in the CS line of work in varying positions from rep to coaching over the years… The customers who treat reps like servants or come in expecting to be treated like royalty because they’re the customer? They make it dang near impossible to give them good customer service. On the flip side, if you come in treating the rep with respect and dignity, and help them help you? The vast majority of the time, you’ll find that reps go out of their darn way to help you (no joke, I know a LOT of reps who will waive a fee without you even asking about it if you’re just nice). It’s basic human interaction. You get what you give applies here as well. The better you as a customer treat barn staff? The better they treat your horses, and you as well. There’s basic respect and professionalism, which everyone is entitled to. But I’ve usually found the customers who get the best service experiences are the ones who avoid taking frustrations out on the rep, treat them kindly, and like a professional doing their job instead of a servant there for their convenience.
[QUOTE=Coanteen;8979355]
It’s not really “asking permission”.
It’s giving a head’s up. Sure, if horse-in-arena is at the moment blowing up and galloping heedlessly, the person in the arena should give warning not to come in, for reasons of safety.
But practically, you’re giving head’s-up so an not to startle the rider/horse inside. Unless they’re the BO, or have exclusively rented the arena for a period of time, or something similar, the person in the arena doesn’t get to decide if the other person may or may not come in, just because they were there first.[/QUOTE]
That is only one reason to ask for permission. The other reasons are to make sure the horse in the arena is under control and also they may be working up to canter large and you will hinder that. You can wait a few minutes for that.
We have our own arena. Only my hubby and I ride in it on our own horses. We both ask for permission to enter and I do no enter until he says it is okay to do so. He has been taught by me to do the same thing.
[QUOTE=alterfe;8979562]
You’re saying I should ask permission for use of the facilities I pay for, as a client per a legal agreement, when there are no lessons being taught? I think you’re a little confused. This is a boarding facility. One boarder/employee/whatever is not permitted to monopolize the ring because they see everyone else as an inconvenience. I work my riding times around lessons, not rude employees.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious?
This person has “yelled”, oh wait I’m sorry she didn’t yell as you later corrected yourself, she “squawked”, at you on two occasions. She is brand new in her job and there is a looooong way to go before this becomes a campaign of harrassment against you that forces you to leave the barn. Two sharp remarks is hardly a case of “monopolozing the ring because they see everybody else as an incovenience.”
I guess by your own admissiom you are someone who is not happy unless they get what they want and have it their way 100% of the time? Other people say “door!”, and if a rider says “can you hang on a second?” or even a sharp “not now!!” they might be willing to cut the other person some slack and hang out on the aisle doodling around on their phone for a few minutes while the other person works out whatever is going on with their horse. Even if they (or their parents) are paying board on two horses.
I’ve been paid to ride several difficult horses at various barns who did nnnnot always behave predictably in the arena. Occasionally we cut some people off, and the other boarders, who were also paying to use the facility, were gracious about it. Other times my horses’ owners, all paying boarders with a trainer (me) additionally on the clock, waited with their horse a few minutes before coming in the arena, or before cantering, or before lunging, because other paying boards asked, or because nobody asked but we knew that rider was more timid and almost done so we can hold off on the canter a few minutes until she is done. We did not stand there in the aisle b*tching that we were paying for these facilities per legal contract and were not going to ask “permission” to pick up a canter. But if someone is ever a little sharper than strictly necessary with you, or asks you to wait a minute for them, you don’t see it that way? I get the impression you are used to getting what you want and how you want it 100% of the time and if anyone steps out of what you feel is bounds you resent it.
So I’m wondering OP are there any times in horse ownership (or life) you can identify where you might cut a barn employee or another boarder some slack, or accommodate them, or humor their weirdness, or forgive their trespasses, even if you (or your parents) are paying board on two horses? Perhaps my impression was wrong and I am happy to be persuaded.
Btw, you’re in college, so you could probably handle giving David Foster Wallace’s short essay “This Is Water” a read. 20 minutes well worth it, and available for free on the internet.
I think we have a winner!
And not just any validation.
Validation wrapped in tempura.
[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;8979697]
That is only one reason to ask for permission. The other reasons are to make sure the horse in the arena is under control and also they may be working up to canter large and you will hinder that. You can wait a few minutes for that.
We have our own arena. Only my hubby and I ride in it on our own horses. We both ask for permission to enter and I do no enter until he says it is okay to do so. He has been taught by me to do the same thing.[/QUOTE]
“Wait a few minutes so my horse doesn’t kill anyone” is not the same as “you have to leave the arena because you’re taking up too much room.”
Doesn’t work that way at a boarding facility. If you want the arena to yourself, you have to rent it, or schedule a private lesson - if your barn even allows that. Boarders have to learn to ride in a group; that’s just how it goes. More than once I changed my schedule to try to get to the barn early to take advantage of the off-peak arena times.
You don’t just get to ask people to leave because you want more space - whether you’re an employee or another boarder - unless it’s otherwise agreed upon by the management. (E.g. “trainer ride times” versus “boarder ride times.”)
I’ve never seen anyone have to ask permission to enter an arena. Usually there is a courtesy warning “DOOR!!” to let people know you are entering, and honestly I’ve been in exactly two barns that require this. The only reason to tell someone not to enter is when you’re lunging, or have a loose horse, or have a misbehaving horse unless the arena is reserved for private use.
I am fine with waiting for someone to finish lunging, but if they showed up at peak barn times they’d better be doing it while everyone else is tacking up, or they need to cut it short. I’ve had to lunge first, then groom and tack up, to avoid hogging the arena.
Yes, I’ve had to have my BM tell another boarder that they couldn’t lunge while people were riding because they had ZERO control of their horse and didn’t respect me because I happened to clean stalls for the BM. I ended up not riding for a few days until BM got around to it because boarder had so little respect for me and I knew that addressing the normal barn rules with them myself wouldn’t go over well.
[QUOTE=MyssMyst;8979668]
I honestly get the feeling that you’re not really interested in working it out with this person, and you’re here for validation. If you really wanted a solution to the issue, the full situation would have been laid out.[/QUOTE]
OP seemed to want to vent, largely. People on COTH often do that.
Since … the way to solve the issue, appropriately, was to complain about the employee’s behavior to the employee’s boss, and let them deal with their employee.
Which was done, if you read the thread. Nothing more for OP to do or solve, this isn’t a co-boarder or co- worker or other such “co” relationship where the parties need to deal with it amongst each other. It’s not proper for a client to correct someone else’s staff - they complain to the boss, boss deals with their staff.
Wow, even as a longtime COTHer this thread’s longevity and “life of its own” is surprising me.
Honestly, the original actions described by the OP just don’t seem that outlandish or demanding or entitled to me.
My take is that the OP not responding to being told to leave the arena over the horse being handwalked was perhaps not the BEST choice, but it was still a more controlled, polite response than getting into an argument or heated discussion or potentially angry back & forth with the employee would have been.
Maybe a better choice would have been to have attempted calmly and quietly to explain the circumstances and that she has BO’s permission – but we don’t really know if that would have gone over well with someone who does seem to have been trying to pull some sort of power play. In other words, since there is a history here between the two, perhaps a civil discussion was unlikely at that point anyway. So again, ignoring someone is maybe not the best course of action, but if you are needing to keep your own cool or needing some time to process a situation, ignoring is better than yelling/squawking in return.
Whether or not there is a history of poor interactions, however, the barn employee shouldn’t have been ordering boarders out of the space. I do think there is some onus on the barn employee to double check policies before acting as she did. Because handwalking a horse in an arena with only two other horses present just doesn’t in general seem like an outlandish or overly demanding or entitled thing for a boarder to want or need to do.
Similarly, I do think when you are in a service position, you need to have at least some of the “customer is always right” attitude. Going on the offensive re: arena use by a boarder is leaving me ??? – arena use is a pretty basic part of the services generally provided in a boarding situation.
And I hardly think that needing to hand walk a horse rehabbing from injury makes OP or her horse a Special Snowflake, as she was termed by some posters in this thread.
Anyway, according to OP the situation has been handled by the BM, so no worries.
I do think there is much to be learned by the variety of responses and suggested actions put forth on the thread. It has given me some food for thought for sure.
FWIW we have our own arena and YES either hubby or I say door and wait for permission to enter. We do pass left to left and if someone’s horse is acting up or freaking out then the other person, goes to the other end of the arena or stops and lets the problem pair work it out. It is safety, courtesy and common sense and equestrian etiquette. I can’t believe people say door and just barge in right afterwards.
As for the OP….if it were me I would find some way to work it out with the person. Say you got off on the wrong foot and you’d like things to improve between you….something like that. an implied apology at least. THEN I’d make sure if I could any interactions between us were at least in front of other people. What you don’t want to do is be the one in the wrong….so that means either zipping your lip or killing her with kindness. As soon as you mouth off…you haven’t a let to stand on. In fact you have it worse than she does…being the boarder it is implied you have the upper hand over a paid employee…and one is never impolite to the servants dear.
It never fails: winter rolls around, the indoor fills and the drama ensues. :winkgrin:
luce, I was going to suggest holiday stress, but I think you have it right!
[QUOTE=lucegoose;8979883]
It never fails: winter rolls around, the indoor fills and the drama ensues. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
As a southerner, I am somewhat baffled by all of the “indoor” drama! Even entering the space sounds stressful with all the cooped-up horses and variations on arena etiquette.
Come to Florida, where the ground never freezes. We have plenty of crazy people (ie “Florida man”) but we are almost never forced to ride in close proximity with them.
Having spent winters in the north riding solely indoors for months, due to frozen/snow-covered ground conditions outside … and having spent winters riding in the south with NO indoor arenas, MAYBE a big roof if you are in a ‘fancy’ stable …
… there are days in the south when I really, really wished for that cold, dark, boring, stultifying but windless and weather-less indoor! LOL But mostly for winters in the south I greatly appreciate usually being able to escape the arena for a ride. Yes, out-of-arena riding does give some relief to the need to get along with others, when all of us are riding along in our own little world. 
Yeah, still astonished at the lengthy verbal attempted beatdowns that have been heaped on the OP.
For pete’s sake, an employee of a business at which she is a customer raised her voice first to the OP not once, but twice, when the OP wasn’t really doing anything particularly wrong or entitled. Walking your horse in an arena with all of two other horses? The horror! Wrong place at the wrong time while both are riding? That could easily be shared blame.
But suddenly the OP, who did not let herself get drawn into a verbal dispute either time, but instead took up the issue with the BM, which many of us think was entirely appropriate – the OP is the one who must have things 100% her way?
I’m not saying the OP was completely right, but a lot of this seems quite a bit over the top. This Is Water, indeed. Can we have a little temperance and compassion for a young OP who probably did come here to vent as much as ask for advice, but really hasn’t done anything particularly awful here?
