Help/Vent/whatever Foster Dog is giving me a run for my money

[luvmyhackney]

This is probably more of a vent than anything. But my current foster dog (1 y/o female heeler/schnauzer mix) is very intelligent, we have been working on loose leash walking, leave it, riding in a car, know about 6-7 commands now. Great on property, off property is a work in progress. Really a lovely dog considering.

I can not get her over her stranger danger, like massive reactivity to people (mainly adults especially men).

Local dog trainer came and observed and said I’m doing all the right things. Treat when people come close and no treats when no people, working on focus work, and keeping her brain busy. Her safe space is around 100 ft and how dare I have guest in my house.

Currently she is not adoptable and I would really love her to have her own family.

So tips/tricks/ thoughts and prayers are all appreciated.

[Simkie]

If you’re doing all the right things training wise, would a bit of an anti anxiety med help her? While I’ve not had one with this specific issue, I’ve found meds really useful to give them some space to learn rather than just react.

[starsandsun]

A friend of mine is dealing with this with her new rescue dog. She’s using tiny tiny micro-tiny exposures to help her get over her fear of people/men in particular. Walks across the street from where people are so there are no proximity issues - occasional trips to the local softball field on the perimeter just to expose her to people for a quick minute. It’s been working well so far.

[luvmyhackney]

That’s a good next step I didn’t think of.

I’ll call the vet and get some recommendations/options.

She really is the snuggliest, sweetest dog and I’m trying hard not to be a foster fail.

[Casey09]

I don’t know that this dog will ever be great with guests. For a dog like this, I’d have a crate handy and fabulous crate treats and draw that line as one she may not have to cross.
It sounds like the rest of it you’re doing the right things. I am obsessed with The Toby Project on Instagram, and I’m not necessarily completely R+. It’s just interesting.
One thing that I find helpful with any dog with a hint of stranger danger is to make sure that you smile and say hello whenever you encounter a stranger out in public. It doesn’t matter if the stranger can hear you. It doesn’t matter how the stranger responds or if they do at all. To me it’s just a way of regulating my energy. Even if I were 500 feet away, I’d smile and say hello.
They may not make a difference for you and I’ve never worked with a dog that reactive to strangers, but that’s helped me.

[S1969]

How long have you had her? It’s really hard to say - if it has been one week, I’d say you could still expect a lot of change. If you’ve had her for months and it’s still like this, I agree that I’d suggest the vet’s advice but also temper my expectations of this changing a lot.

[luvmyhackney]

I’ve had her since beginning of August but we didn’t start training for stranger danger until second week of Sept.

It took about a week to not growl/bite at everyone in the household. Then we started on loose leash walking, basic commands, engage her brain plus give her some decompression time. She was crated prior about 20 hours a day and taken to shelter due to destroying their furniture, not listening, and being too needy.

I need more patience I’m sure. But I think @Simkie hit the nail on the head about anxiety.

[thatmoody]

I will say that we started our poodle on Prozac for a different issue (OCD licking of his penis) and it’s helped him overall. He is an angel on walks, and the other dogs occasionally barking at him (there is one chihuahua on our regular route who is simply a beast) don’t phase him anymore, and people (he used to also bark at them) are apparently fine now. I think it took the edge off just enough for him to do the work to recover a bit. We still manage his environment a bit but it took him down from 100 to 50 on the reactivity level.

[OzarksRider]

Have you considered enrolling her in training classes? The purpose of this would be to give her some structured exposure to other people and dogs. If she already knows basic obedience, you could try something like agility classes or scent detection–in other words, something that would challenge her and be fun as well.

Three years ago someone dumped a young dog in my rural neighborhood. That dog was so afraid of everyone that she ran wild for at least 4 months because no one could get near her. We put out word that we would take her if anyone could catch her, so several neighbors started putting out food. It took nearly 3 months, but one neighbor finally caught her and literally dragged her to my house. I took her inside, and after she was spayed and vaccinated I enrolled her in basic obedience classes. Partly I wanted her to learn basic commands, but my larger purpose was to give her more confidence. The classes were small, 4-5 dogs and their owners. Just being in that small group, learning new things and earning rewards really boosted her confidence. She now has her AKC Canine Good Citizen certificate and has transformed into a dog that thinks everyone is her friend. She loves to ride in the car, and she especially likes to go to stores where dogs are allowed and people make a big fuss over her. But her most favorite thing is to trot alongside when I ride my horse.

[oreo1]

Although it may not help your situation directly, I have found that when I take my rescue dogs away from home, they actually behave better.

You would think that at an outdoor festival with people and dogs that they might be even more in trouble. But somehow when they see lots of other dogs with people, and they have no territory to defend, the response is much calmer.

Translating this to the home environment is not as easy, but it makes me think about what environments are good for them (and me as well).

[luvmyhackney]

She’s worse in public. Currently we go to a quiet park and my friend stays a controlled distance away, and communicate via text. We have to leave if park is busy or more than a handful of people.

It’s not that she just barks and gets loud, she gets the posture of a dog that is getting ready to explode and eat them, I redirect when her ears point in the direction or she tenses up. And it works most of the time. If person comes closer than her safety area she snarls, shows teeth, and means it.

She’s double collared and leashed for safety in a public area, I do my best to stay neutral and non reactive, but it does kill your nerves after a bit.

[starsandsun]

My thought is exposure in micro doses. Go to a park when no one is there. Then go with your friend on the other side. If she’s doing well, leave. Leave before she gets reactive. Avoid overfacing her.

[skydy]

I sounds like a muzzle is in order when she’s out and about.

[Mango20]

I have a stranger danger dog and I agree with the person who recommended small training class. Mine has been in agility training starting with the basic puppy manners class. She has really become comfortable with the other dogs and the people there. At first, she would be freaked out by a new dog/handler joining a class, but now she’s pretty much okay with any other person or dog in that environment. She doesn’t even give a second glance to Aussies anymore (the trainer is also an Aussie breeder, so there are always several around). Our classes have never had more than six dogs in them. Agility in general has given her a lot of confidence.

My dog seems to be very situational in her reactions. People/dogs at class, or doing their own thing at a park are generally okay. People behind counters at dog friendly stores are the best, since they offer treats (she’ll even jump up on the counter to ask for treats). That same person approaching her out in the open would be too scary. Someone she knows well and likes came over to our house for the first time, and she barked at her and scooted away until she figured out who it was in an unexpected place. I’ve had her for two years, and while she has improved a lot, she still has a long way to go. She will growl or bark at someone if they get too close to fast and don’t offer treats, but so far has shown no indication that she’ll get aggressive. As her owner, I am working the long game, hoping we make even more progress as time passes. For you with a foster, it’s going to be much harder since you have to get her to a point where she needs to make a good impression on a potential adopter. I think medication would be worth trying.

[Simkie]

If you do want to try a class, definitely talk to the trainers beforehand about it. We had a dog like this at puppy class, and she was not permitted to continue past the first class.

[Jealoushe]

I have heelers and I find some of them are naturally more guarded to strangers. I hope you can find something that helps and find this baby a loving home.

There are a lot of trainers now that will do one on and one and then plan things like pack walks etc to socialize. I’m sure there would be someone in your area. Post in a local FB for recs.

[luvmyhackney]

Yeah, I don’t need her to love strangers or even touched by strangers, just feel comfortable going out and about for hikes, runs, park visits, tractor supply, etc.

I’ve already reached out about a class and the trainer said it was a no go. She’s already been evaluated by a good one in our area. She would be too disruptive. I reached out to the vet and they are giving me 2-3 different drug options to try, plus told me to try CBC.

She tolerates her groomer after we visited daily for a week but they have a mantrap area.

And we had a better experience this AM. Got about 20 ft before getting tense. But it’s also been the same friend for 2x a week for three weeks now.

[Jealoushe]

Theres a lot of little training videos on instagram about reactive dogs, might be worth looking at some for ideas.

[starsandsun]

Can you dial back everything and give her some wins? Like, if she goes 20 feet before getting tense, how about giving a treat and calling it? I think she can build confidence with little experiences that do not take her into yellow/red zone.

[luvmyhackney]

So maybe my venting worked!

We went on the park trail this morning and was able to distract her for the first time when some one walked by around 10 ft from us! Granted I was distracting with Italian meatballs and she hadn’t had breakfast yet… but still.

Picture as a thanks for all the suggestions that I am using and appreciate!