Help with a spooky/looky horse (not at jumps, at things all around)?

[Jersey_Fresh]

My guy and I are new to eventing and we got our first big fat E this weekend. Im bummed but more just frustrated at the reason for it. He was fabulous for dressage in the morning. Then we got ready for stadium, and he was stupid walking into the warmup (up the hill at the KHP if anyone is familiar). He spun when I asked him to go up and walk in. He did this at our last event but I eventually got him in. Once in the warm up he’s normally great. Looky but forward and fine. He was a bit up, but that’s abnormal for him. I probably needed a couple more jumps, but I had to go in. We went into stadium and it was like his brain shut off. We jumped the first jump sideways, then the second beautifully. Then the third one we had a run out, but then I got him over (sideways). Fourth beautifully. The fifth I couldn’t even get him near and we got an E. It was not the jumps-this horse is super brave and has only once stopped at a fence bc he spooked-usually if hes looky at a fence he just jumps it super round, but he goes. He was spooking at things outside the ring-people with cameras, jump standards you name it. It was really frusterating to say the least bc it wasn’t the jumps and the ones we got over he jumped great.

A little background-this horse is 16 and Ive had him for 5 years. We started in the 2’6 hunters, then the adults, did a little eq. I don’t have much jumper experience. We did our first HT this past fall and we’ve done really well. We placed 2nd at Midsouth and 5th and 2nd in our other two events. I am ok with dealing with quirks-I got this horse for free because of things like this but I would like to get around something as simple as stadium. He has a wicked spin on him and has a habit of stopping and spinning if he spooks. I don’t really know how to ride through it, so like the warm up ring thing, I don’t really know how to make him go? I know people will say to smack him and make him go but I have to admit, Im nervous.

Any suggestions? Would fleece things on his bridle help? Exercises at home? My trainer (H/J) suggested riding with a dressage whip so that if he does spin I can get after him without taking my hands off the ring. Could the spookiness be ulcers? Its not all of the time, this is the second time in 5 years hes been like that in a show and the first time we haven’t gotten around. I really want to do my homework so I have the tools to deal with this if it happens again. I have my hunter trainer and I work with an eventing trainer and I have no problem having someone else show him for me (though the next event we can go to is late September). My h/j trainer suggested perfect prep, or depo bc it her mind I am an ammie and shouldn’t have to deal with this stuff. But I want to ride him BETTER. I don’t want to drug him and I refuse to feed a Mg supplement-too dangerous IMO. I understand where she is coming from (don’t flame her please) but I know part of this is my riding and I want to be better.

[McVillesMom]

I had a similar experience earlier this year with my 6-year-old. He’s not been out that much, but is typically pretty level-headed and he was spooking at EVERYTHING. I treated him for ulcers and he got much, much better. So that is a possibility.

[FrittSkritt]

Have you had his eyes checked? I’ve heard of horses developing overly large corpra nigra (sp?), those blobs in their eyes that help “shade” their vision, and it can obstruct their vision.

[Wonders12]

Is he prone to this behavior in general? Like at home, too?

[AKB]

What about doing lots of unrecognized events and inexpensive schooling jumper shows? The E isn’t as painful when you only paid $20 for the jumping round. When you both are competing regularly, and over fences which are not difficult for you, you both should be more relaxed.

[Jersey_Fresh]

Hi everyone thanks for the replies. To answer a few questions.

1. Haven’t had his eyes checked. I guess I didn’t think it was a sight issue becaus it’s not every time.
2. It’s hit or miss. He can be rock solid one day and the next lose his marbles over a chair near the arena. It’s almost like it depends on his mood? He’s always been looky-watching around him all of the time. He has never run out on a jump before bc of spookig though. And it’s not q matter of not wanting to jump or being afraid of he jump. If he’s spooky at the jump his reaction is different (he still goes, just jumps hard)
3. I’m trying to do that. There just aren’t a lot of options ant the events at the horse park aren’t that much more money and much closer. Also, before we started eventing, we hauled all over inside/outside, local, non local to do hunter shows. I also take him to a local park to hack and school XC, the 4H horse judging every year (happens at the little I so he sees cows, tons of people in the stands etc when we are volunteering) and we have hunter paced. We are going a jumper show this weekend and I’ll do some CTs in Aug but I don’t know how to recreate that situation where he spooks since it’s not every time.

I want to get around. We are competive when we do and our stadium rounds look like eq trips when we do.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I would try at first to run out ulcers.

But assuming that is fine…you need to school and ride at all times as if you are in charge. I have mare like this…hyper alert. She is very in tune to how the rider feels and will take over if she can. So you need to be calm and confident at all times and NEVER let him ignore or drop behind your leg. Not even whe just walking around.

It is hard because normally for green horses I think they just need time to observe everything going on and you are better to just keep things slow and easy. But if your gelding is like my mare…that is not the issue. They know better and are just taking over. They need you to assert yourself and be in control. Good luck! It isn’t easy to fix.

[Ruth0552]

My guy is a bit like this. He’s looky and spooky, but I’m of the belief that that can be trained out of them. It’s ok to be scared and look, it’s not ok to spin and run like there’s a bear.

I pretty much have zero tolerance for spooking hard. Let me guess- he spooks hard, you get nervous, then he spooks more, you get more scared, etc. And like your guy, mine is 14/15. He has done some hunter/jumper stuff before me, and some eventing. Unfortunately, he’s also been in places where the spookiness was indulged or ignored, instead of being addressed, which in my opinion made it even worse.

I’m not sure if these are suggestions, but these are what I do with my knucklehead.

1. I make sure I’m safe. My safety (and his) are my number 1 concern. If there is something that I know he potentially might FREAK OUT about, I GET OFF THE HORSE. And I don’t mean something like a green muck tub in a weird location (he spooked at that yesterday!), I mean like a front end loader with a bucket full of house demo coming up the road. I saw it coming from far away, hopped off, and pulled him into a neighbor’s driveway where we could safely watch it go by without getting hurt or hurting anyone else. He was totally ok with it, but I bet if I had been on he would have felt my nervousness and spooked.

2. Exposure. Luckily, my horses get lots of exposure to weird stuff because my uncle lives next door and has an auto shop. Loud noises and front end loaders full of scrap metal are the norm around here.

3. Keep him busy. If I see something that I know might make him nervous, like a herd of bicycles passing by the field where I ride, I will put my leg on, ask him to use his butt, come into the bridle and bend. We’ll bend one way, go straight, then bend the other way. If his attention is on me, not on whatever he might spook at, he’s more likely not to spook. If I have to I’ll trot him over some crossrails or ground poles to keep him occupied.

4. I always ride with a crop. And it’s not so I can smack his ass, it’s so I can tap his shoulder lightly when he starts to look at something to remind him I’m up there and he should be paying attention to me. I know there are people who would flame me for this, but in my opinion a hard spook is bad behavior and he should be scolded for it. There are things that are legitimate- like a bear, or an attacking dog, or a bomb. But the chain to go into the arena? A green muck tub? That’s just bullshit and he knows better. I won’t tolerate that crap.

I’ve had my guy since January 2014 and it’s been a long road to get him where he is now but he is still so much better than he was when he got here. Terrified about all kinds of stuff and hard spooks left and right. It was miserable.

Hope that helps a little!

[Auburn]

Can you travel to the Louisville area, from Lexington? If so, then check out the 42 Fleur de Leis series of CT’s and Mini Trials. There is one on August 9th at Spring Run. There is always plenty at which for them to look.

I am taking my OTTB mare to most of them, before I go recognized. I want her to have positive experiences and work through any issues, without the high cost of a recognized event. So far, her issue is water complexes.

BTW, my mare has a 180 degree spin on a dime in her, too. She has improved, because I have gotten braver and don’t let them rattle me. If she starts to spin, I will continue to spin her, then kick her forward. You have to keep their feet moving for their brains to be engaged. As another poster suggested, you need to make certain that your horse is always in front of your leg.

I have ridden up the ramp to the warm up arena at the KHP. There are always a half dozen trainers, horses going by and the warm up stewards, which can block your forward progress. If you have a ground person with you, you might ask them to clear the way so that you do not give your horse the opportunity to stop and spin?

Also, I agree about having his eyes checked, as well as for ulcers. :yes:

Good luck!

[pony_grandma]

Good advice Red!

[KayBee]

Maresie isn’t terribly spooky, but on occasion, yes, things (not jumps) make her go “whhhuuutttt”?

I cannot, cannot, cannot let myself be distracted by her distraction/try to figure out what’s causing it/analyze it. I just have to keep my eye (and mind!) on where we need to go.

[californianinkansas]

OP,
I feel your pain. My horse is genetically very hot, spooky and reactive.

After ulcers and vision problems are ruled out, you might try adding a cheap magnesium supplement to his diet -it made a huge difference with my horse.

What kind of hay does he get? My already hot and spooky horse gets almost unmanageable on a diet of alfalfa hay.

You might want to work with him on learning to spook in place. I found that using a clicker was very helpful with teaching Vee to spook in place. It’s amazing how quickly he learned to control his emotions once he learned that he could “make” me dispense a treat if he stood still instead of his usual drop shoulder-whirl-bolt.

My horse is extremely sensitive to the smallest changes in my breathing patterns. I find that singing repetitive cadences or songs helps with keeping my breathing steady. He is also very sensitive to changes in my posture, especially my shoulders.

It is very easy for you both as a horse-rider pair to get locked in a visious fear cycle with a horse like this.

I do yoga, breathing exercises, and meditation just because and also to help me control my breathing and non-verbals around my horse.

Is he also a recreational spooker? My boy turns on the spook the minute he starts getting bored.

Also, the advice from the previous posters is super good.

[Jersey_Fresh]

Thank you everyone! Ruth-how do you train them to spook in place? That would help tremendously. He is a hard spooker when he does it, but I never know when.

I might treat him for ulcers, but Im not 100% convinced he has them other than he has a lot of nervous habits like weaving, and rubbing his teeth on the stall wall if tied. He gets a decent amount of grain but is a good BCS so thats I guess my only thinking that it might not be ulcers. But hes so dang senstive. We also just swapped him from straw to shavings about 3 weeks ago because of constant thrush so i wonder if the lack of being able to munch on a bit of straw if hes out of hay exaserbated any belly issues? I really dont know.

I dont want to put him on an Mg supplement. Just out of curiosity I am going to pull a tube of blood and have them run it at work to just see what his levels are. Since hes out on fresh pasture and on complete feed I expect them to be normal. Not sure Im convinced of the link betwee Mg and calming.

Can I use ear puffs in stadium and XC at a USEA event? I didnt think I could, so I stopped using them. He has a party hat (bonnet) and that seems to muffle a bit, but ear plugs definately make him less reactive. Also can I use fleeces on the side of his bridle at a USEA event? If not, I may just school in them until I desensitize him.

The biggest thing is learning to ride through the spins and getting him to know that he cant spin. I think if I had the tools to make him think “GO!” no matter what, I could have gotte him around. But he just ignored my leg and spur and refused to go near the rail.

As for the warmup habit, I think I am going to see if I can bring him to the KY Classique as a non compete so he can chill and I can get someone to kick his ass for me. I got him in eventually at midsouth, but this time he was way too up so I got off, and got back on in the rail.

Ill also look into that trial on August 9th. I was gonna do a CT that day, but it may be worth it to take a ride there instead. I only do the USEA events bc they are local and for starter, its not much more than the unrecognized once you factor in gas back and forth to Louisville. We did great at Midsouth where everything was max height and the stadium was harder.

[Jersey_Fresh]

I hope Im not painting him to be a terrible horse. This guy has taken me from being afraid of jumping a 2’ vertical to the adults to eventing and is incredibly tolerant of my mistakes and nervousness. He has only ever stopped on me when it was a really, really bad spot or he was legitimately scared, and I can count those times on one hand in 5 years. My trainer even said after the first time we did an event that she was extremely proud of me because she never thought I would ever be brave enough to try eventing without this horse.

At midsouth I was in tears out of nervousness in the warm up for XC and he came out of the start box like he was an old pro at it-it was our 3rd event ever. I got him for free because of the quirks, so Ive always just dealt with it. Plus the spookiness made him jump super cute. This was so unusual for us-not getting around, that I worried maybe something was wrong with him or he was in pain or maybe just having a super bad day. Usually he spooks, spins and then goes back to business.

I just dont want it to sound like hes an awful spiteful horse. All and all, Im incredibly lucky to have been given him.

[enjoytheride]

Do you have a blog?

You might try being proactive and if you see something he might react to, start by asking him to flex away or leg yield at the canter, canter slower, canter faster, trot canter transition, etc and keep his mind busy and occupied on you.

I also wouldn’t be afraid to correct him with my stick when he drops back and ignores you.

[arabiansrock]

Really seriously .look into ulcers. Get him scoped. I am currently treating my arab for ulcers and his personality has totally changed. There was one side of the barn that you simply could NOT groom or tie him on, he was just constantly dancing back and forth, swinging his butt etc. Never understood why, but he was better but not perfect on the other side. Now on ulcer meds, I can groom him on either side and he doesn’t act like he is going to have a heart attack on the “scary” side. I personally saw a difference within days of starting the ulcergard. Good luck.

Oh and they say up to 90% of competing horses have ulcers. So…

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Honestly…sounds a bit like ulcers but also just plain not focusing. Personally…I wouldn’t be changing things up and looking at putting fuzzys on his bridles. Just work on kicking him forward and getting him to focus on you.

You say you do not feel his spooks coming? I find that surprising…and perhaps indicates that you are not focusing either. You need to work on getting him to listen to you ALL the time. BEFORE it rises to a spin spook. Then don’t focus on what he is spooking at as much as he needs to go in front of your leg and froward. STRAIGHT is also very important. You will get it.

Don’t worry so much about getting an E…you event long enough you will have a few letter scores. That isn’t a big deal. Put it out of your head and ride on.

[Jersey_Fresh]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8226818]
Do you have a blog?

If you do what I noticed was he started spooking and propping and it took you a long time to react, correct, and move on.

You might try being proactive and if you see something he might react to, start by asking him to flex away or leg yield at the canter, canter slower, canter faster, trot canter transition, etc and keep his mind busy and occupied on you.

I also wouldn’t be afraid to correct him with my stick when he drops back and ignores you.[/QUOTE]

No I dont but i love the name of yours! Ive thought about it, but I have no idea how to make a blog. It would be fun to document the path though! My ultimate goal is move up to BN next year and qualify for A8 championships. Its lofty, but most goals are.

This is us in the hunters a few years ago:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/KMBrennan03/MarcusJulySRF.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/KMBrennan03/image_zps89df63bc.jpg

And Midsouth at the KHP two weeks ago:
http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/KMBrennan03/364HT-K2_4779%20MSPC%202015_zpshracdqnk.jpg

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n603/KMBrennan03/364HT-1_6833%20MSPC%202015_zpslslvfcu6.jpg

[billiebob]

I have a horse who generally isn’t super spooky, but when he does spook he completely ignores your leg and spins left. He will completely ignore a spur and used to have a meltdown with crops/whips. I worked very hard to desensitize him to a short jumper bat, and when I ride that thing is always in my left hand. I’m no longer afraid to give him a good hard smack the instant I feel him drop behind my leg and before he has the chance to spook.

There are a lot of really good tips on this thread. Another thing that is HUGE for me is my mindset. One of us has to be the brave leader and it’s probably better if it’s me. This is very difficult for me at times, but it makes a world of difference. Usually pretending to be brave and confident and in charge leads to me actually being brave and confident and in charge.

[Wonders12]

He’s adorable! He doesn’t sound like a bad horse at all. He sounds a lot like mine actually.

I know where my mare’s habits come from though. She is very smart and very good at figuring out how to get out of work. Spooking = not working.

So first thing is make sure this is a training issue and not a health issue. But if it is a training issue, it sounds like you know how to handle it. He has to go forward. But, like many of us, you know how uncomfortable the ground can be and you get defensive and nervous instead. I’m no expert, but this is what has worked for me.

Regular lessons. We start to unravel if I’m without a lesson for more than 10-14 days. She gets a little spooky, I get a little nervous, she gets more spooky, etc. And even though I know what to do, I do it better when someone is yelling at me about it.

Sing. Row, row, row your boat is my song of choice. Anything to set a cadence and keep you breathing will do. I actually find it helps focus both of us. Those days that I get on and just feel like I’m sitting on a powder-keg, I sing the whole ride.

Have intense focus on getting from point A to point B. My horse doesn’t bolt. She sucks back and then either elevators to the side, bucks, or spins. So my focus is on getting from where we are now, through that corner, and then down the long side, and then through the other corner, and then down the other long side. Repeat. If she does something stupid, it doesn’t matter, the only thing that matters is getting to that next point. Everything is, but especially my eyes are focused on that. What this actually does is gets us to stop focusing on the bad or what could happen, but telling me “don’t look at what she’s looking at” or “don’t indulge her spook” doesn’t help me.

When she’s really having a stupid day. I get mad. She is being a disrespectful brat who is playing me for a fool, and that’s not ok! Now, my “getting mad” just means that I ride forward a little harder. But by getting mad, I’m not getting nervous or scared. I’m getting determined. In a perfect world, we should be able to ride through these issues with no emotion at all. But I’m not perfect. And I’ll take “mad” (which is not to be confused with angry, abusive, or having a temper) over scared any day. Because scared gets me dumped.

Change the way you look at spooking. In the COTH article, The Long Way Around, she says, “They have to learn to accept the aids. They have to learn to accept pressure, from the leg, from the bit, from outside stimuli.” Mind blown! My horse must accept my legs. Yes. She must accept the bit. Yes. Those are non-negotiables. So why do I negotiate over accepting pressure from outside stimuli? By thinking of her refusal to accept outside stimuli as the same type of training issue as a horse who refuses to accept the leg, it becomes something I can handle. If I can train one, I can train the other. And she has to learn to accept all three. Period, end of discussion.

And because I’m not a pro, I’m not afraid to use “cheats”. I have someone else ride her once a week, and I’ve convinced myself that that rider fixes all her problems. So if we are having a bad week, after she rides, we are starting with a clean slate because she’s been fixed. Don’t try to tell me otherwise! On days she is really high, I lunge or free-lunge her before (or in the middle of) my ride. It’s not worth fighting over if blowing off some steam with help get her mind in a better place (and reduce my chances of getting dumped). Neck straps, saddle tite, and full seat breeches are all up for grabs as needed. I’m pretty sure they don’t actually help at all, but they make me BELIEVE they help and therefore I ride more confidently. I rarely use any, but for a show or a windy day or a ride after two days off, I might pull one out just to give me a little boost.

Those are the overarching things that help me ride the spooky horse better. Your trainer will be able to help you with his issues more directly. But sometimes trainers just don’t understand how nervous they can make us when they do silly things.