I once used the metaphor that riding a hot, spooky horse is like trying to move a balloon with a needle. Can’t poke it too hard or it will pop, but if you don’t keep a delicate pressure on, it will fall right out of the sky.
Lookers and spookers and sensitive types do better with something to do. You HAVE to keep their focus no matter what else is going on. One of the mistakes I often see people make is that they think the horse will relax by being on a loose rein with no pressure. To a nervous or worried horse this means, “rider is not in charge. I am in charge? Oh my god who is in charge? I have to take charge or we’re not safe. That means I have to be alert for danger! OH MY GOD THERE IS SO MUCH DANGER!” and you can see why horse becomes spooky and amps himself up. Keep his focus. It will help you, too. Simple exercises, always asking for something, always bringing his attention on you, you, you, you, you, will put his confidence in you as the leader. Even walking into the arena to start your round, ask him for roundness, ask him for bend, ask him to yield, etc. Don’t give him a second to think for himself. It sounds a little harsh but knowing the expectations and following the leader is the most relaxing thing for a horse and is often the best way to install confidence.
Also, make sure he has an “out.” Meaning, he has a way to win, someplace to go. It’s easy to become fearful on a reactive horse and get a death grip on his face, thus making forward equal pain. When you then add aggressiveness with crop or heel, you can expect fireworks from a sensitive horse, because he has no way to get relief. Often this happens from defensive riding when a horse’s mental state starts to degrade into spooks. You need to build his trust beforehand by ensuring he knows his safe place, his “out,” is forward and on the aids. And keep him there to keep his focus by continuing to ask simple questions. Keep the contact, but don’t box him in. Keep a delicate pressure on with leg and seat so that he retains focus, but don’t blow the keg. Push your balloon with a needle.
If he’s as sensitive as you say, know that if you go after him with a whip or spurs, you could find yourself in a much, much worse situation. Beating him if he’s truly scared/nervous will exacerbate the issue and make it potentially dangerous, because all you are doing is reinforcing to him that there IS something to be afraid of - pain. That doesn’t mean you let him “get away” with being spooky (because you are keeping him focused and on the aids, right? So it’s appropriate to give him firm reminder if he blows you off and so it never gets to all out war), but I have seen too many sensitive horses traumatized by the come to Jesus philosophy for spooking. For a horse who is not scared but is just giving you the middle finger, a CTJ moment may be necessary (though sometimes the focus thing is all that’s needed). However, it doesn’t sound like that’s the case for your sensitive guy, and he might not come out of the experience unscathed if you hire someone to really kick his butt.
My OTTB is notoriously silly and spooky - he’s the kind that spooks at the same stuff in the same ring day after day (and he’s a 12-yr, prelim eventer). He gets Perfect Prep Training Day in his am feed daily and it makes a WORLD of difference. Without it, I can’t get any real training done. Just another idea to consider!
Billebob has it right. I can tell when my horse is thinking about spooking. A gentle tap with my crop will redirect his attention to me and remind him that you, know, I exist. I guess I watch his ears a lot. If he’s staring hard at something with his ears forward there is not a chance he is listening to me.
If I know he’s going to LOOK at something I put my crop in my opposite hand and put my leg on him hard and press my crop into his shoulder. It’s taken a while but I think at this point he trusts that I am not going to put him in danger and when I remind him I’m there before he loses his shit he gets his act together.
Before me, my horse was doing a triangle for the last 5 years: Stall, turnout, ring. BUT, in those, oh so very familiar and predictable conditions, he was capable of being ridden by larger beginner and any intermediate rider. He is a really good egg. He’s just been “indulged” for many years. He wasn’t forced to go to the “scary” end of the ring. Like seriously? Were you trying to teach the horse to have meltdowns? Worst thing to do for a horse, IMO.
At one point I discovered that if I didn’t notice something that might cause a meltdown, then he didn’t meltdown. He might still spook but no meltdown.
What is your guy eating/how is he turned out? I had my guy on Triple Crown Senior, which I love, but it was too much for him. Now he gets hay pellets, a handful of Senior so it’s still yummy :rolleyes: and a complete vitamin/mineral supplement. And he’s out 24/7 with an optional shed. Getting him off grain altogether helped a lot. Oh, and he will still try to spin and run in the early spring, when it’s chilly and he’s getting back into work. And if he doesn’t get enough work, even now in the July heat & humidity, he will be more likely to spook. He is really much better if he is getting worked 5+ times a week.
Hope that helps! Some of it is maturity too. Maybe as he ages he will mature. Not all 15 year olds are built the same (human or equine!).
I put mine on smart pak ultra calm and ultra gut and as much turnout as possible. He is sensitive as well, so the biggest change I made was not punishing him and rewarding him for small steps, like approaching a scarey thing. He gets a peppermint. I ignore the spooks, and I agree, give him an out to go forward. The death grip thing made him worse.
I also have one that becomes fixated on what is OUTSIDE the ring - I WISH he would fixate on what’s inside! :eek:
I had to get control of his head and not allow the slightest tilt to either side. When horses are moving well forward and especially when they are jumping, they tend to rely almost entirely on their binocular vision in front. So if you control where the face is pointed you effectively block their looking off in other directions. This is a tricky path to follow without hanging on to the horse’s face, because as has been said above, he has to have somewhere to go. But forward forward forward and that is ALL.
And they’ve got to stay ahead of the leg, meaning that when they suck back (or just drop back) the rider can’t let their own seat get ahead of the motion.
Watch out for tiny head tilts to the side. Watch out for a body that is on the correct bend, but with a little wobble at the top of the neck, near the poll, that allows the eyes to leave the direction of travel. Many horses do that and still get the job done (the equivalent of secretly reading something else in history class but still following the lesson). But The Distractables are over-hyped about the visuals away from the job.
I had to learn that in warm-up he starts hot, but becomes calm, not because he’s ready to go but because he’s already seen the territory and had time to accustom to it. Take perfect sweet willing warm-up horse into the ring for his round, and he falls apart with a whole new landscape he hasn’t checked out yet.
[QUOTE=KayBee;8226194]
Maresie isn’t terribly spooky, but on occasion, yes, things (not jumps) make her go “whhhuuutttt”?
I cannot, cannot, cannot let myself be distracted by her distraction/try to figure out what’s causing it/analyze it. I just have to keep my eye (and mind!) on where we need to go.[/QUOTE]
^^^^ Double super triple this, and then double triple it again.
[QUOTE=TB or not TB?;8226998]I once used the metaphor that riding a hot, spooky horse is like trying to move a balloon with a needle. Can’t poke it too hard or it will pop, but if you don’t keep a delicate pressure on, it will fall right out of the sky.
Lookers and spookers and sensitive types do better with something to do. You HAVE to keep their focus no matter what else is going on. One of the mistakes I often see people make is that they think the horse will relax by being on a loose rein with no pressure. To a nervous or worried horse this means, "rider is not in charge. I am in charge? Oh my god who is in charge? I have to take charge or we’re not safe. That means I have to be alert for danger! OH MY GOD THERE IS SO MUCH DANGER!" and you can see why horse becomes spooky and amps himself up. Keep his focus. It will help you, too. Simple exercises, always asking for something, always bringing his attention on you, you, you, you, you, will put his confidence in you as the leader. Even walking into the arena to start your round, ask him for roundness, ask him for bend, ask him to yield, etc. Don’t give him a second to think for himself. It sounds a little harsh but knowing the expectations and following the leader is the most relaxing thing for a horse and is often the best way to install confidence.
Also, make sure he has an “out.” Meaning, he has a way to win, someplace to go. It’s easy to become fearful on a reactive horse and get a death grip on his face, thus making forward equal pain. When you then add aggressiveness with crop or heel, you can expect fireworks from a sensitive horse, because he has no way to get relief. Often this happens from defensive riding when a horse’s mental state starts to degrade into spooks. You need to build his trust beforehand by ensuring he knows his safe place, his “out,” is forward and on the aids. And keep him there to keep his focus by continuing to ask simple questions. Keep the contact, but don’t box him in. Keep a delicate pressure on with leg and seat so that he retains focus, but don’t blow the keg. Push your balloon with a needle.
If he’s as sensitive as you say, know that if you go after him with a whip or spurs, you could find yourself in a much, much worse situation. Beating him if he’s truly scared/nervous will exacerbate the issue and make it potentially dangerous, because all you are doing is reinforcing to him that there IS something to be afraid of - pain. That doesn’t mean you let him “get away” with being spooky (because you are keeping him focused and on the aids, right? So it’s appropriate to give him firm reminder if he blows you off and so it never gets to all out war), but I have seen too many sensitive horses traumatized by the come to Jesus philosophy for spooking. For a horse who is not scared but is just giving you the middle finger, a CTJ moment may be necessary (though sometimes the focus thing is all that’s needed). However, it doesn’t sound like that’s the case for your sensitive guy, and he might not come out of the experience unscathed if you hire someone to really kick his butt.[/QUOTE]
Amen to this. The bold especially is exactly my experience.
I can never, ever give my horse a break on a loose rein, because that’s when he explodes. I mean airborne with loose screws flying everywhere. His break is on a long soft rein that still says “I’m here for you buddy, I’m here for you.”
BTW I saw a video of a Grand Prix jumper rider entering the ring and trotting across to his canter spot, and every second asking his horse for one minimal leg yield after the other, left right left right left right … and I thought “yeah I have one like that!” Mine is not a Grand Prix horse, you understand … :winkgrin:
I never, ever in over 25 years of riding used a calmer … until last year. I am not showing the horse any more, just want a nice ride. I should have started that stuff years ago. He can be himself with the adrenaline tamped down. He just doesn’t have full control over it and after all the years of training and progress, that’s the bottom line.
BTW riders of spooky/looky horses - don’t you LOVE it when a Olympic / WEG / Grand Prix horse has a major spook at the flowers? I just bust out in grins all over !!!
:D:D:D
See this is where he’s odd-he takes offense to somethings and not to others. Some days I have to smack him bc he’s lazy and too quiet, others he comes out like a fire breathing dragon. He’s sensitive and alert but I think maybe it’s a combo of maybe ulcers, being hyper alter and having my number bc I’m nervous to get after him. I honestly don’t know what he would do it I smacked
Him as he spins.
TB or Not TB describes how I treat them…only while you need to keep them working and keep a connection…it needs to be soft and without tension.
Keeping them busy and in front of your leg was what I was trying to get across. I will go to the crop IF they ignore my leg. But I’ve never had one “ignore” my leg in a spook UNLESS I had let them start to ignore it sooner. Make sure your aids are clear and consistent. No nagging with your leg…if you do not get the response you clearly asked for, you need to make a fair correction right away. I find working on moving their shoulders and moving their hind quarters are key. Lots of easy lateral work mixed in with going forward and transitions. They need their focus to be on you…not what is out of the ring. This is true for ALL horses but especially true for ones with a spook.
You have to ride every stride…no going into auto mode as a rider. And being very aware of your horse and that he/she is paying attention to you.
One thing a trainer that worked with my mare (that had a rearing issue) taught me was to do a quick longe first, a d really instill respect. Don’t let them cut in on the circle. While on ground, ask for them to leg yield/side pass, etc. Then when you get on, put more pressure on them than they will have later. So if jumping in a new arena is say a 7 for pressure/stress, ask them to do difficult things like shoulder in, leg yield, turn on haunches, canter halt transition etc. Then when you get in the ring, they will already have experienced more pressure/stress than what they will be doing in there. It truly does work. They become less stressed/spooky because they just handled pressure and stress at a higher level.
My Tb mare used to be spooky a lot and hit or miss when we went to shows. I ended up taking her to a lot of different venues(obstacle clinics, trail riding, team penning, parades, swimming) to help with the spooky behavior. Now even if she is up, we rarely get spooky. If we do it is just a flinch and not a spin sideways spook. I agree with the others to check for ulcers as well.
I did not read all the responses, so I don’t know if this has been asked. Have you seen a correlation between how nervous or confident you are on any given day and his degree of spookiness? I still am amazed how tuned in my TB is to my nerves. When I do have nerves at a show, I might as well be riding a squirrel he’s so all over the place. However, when I am confident and there to do battle, he’s all business. I’m wondering if you two are just still not quite there with your partnership. He certainly looks like he’s enjoying what he’s doing.
First, I would start off checking for pain - tack, ulcers, teeth, whatever.
Assuming that’s all in order, it could be a few things.
He could get so focused on something else off in the distance that he’s not paying attention to his immediate surroundings. Then, when he ‘comes back’ he spooks because he is suddenly aware of what’s around him, whereas he wasn’t previously.
If this is the case, he could be so tense he’s focusing elsewhere to get his mind off his immediate surroundings. Think of it like he’s going to his happy place mentally.
He could just be bored and unchallenged, so pays TOO MUCH attention to things.
He could be spooking to try to evade work.
My suggestions:
Teach your horse to spook in place. Lots of videos on YouTube with suggestions on how to do this.
Teach your horse to be more attentive to you. Make him WORK so that he can’t mentally go to his happy place and ignore things.
If he’s not actually fearful, he doesn’t need to spook. It takes time to learn the difference in him between actual fear and being dumb, but when he’s just being dumb, correct him. If he’s trotting along and starts staring at the ground, give him a boot and make him do transitions or lateral work and make him focus on you.
These are things that I’ve done (and still do when the situation warrants it) for my horse.
If he’s not actually fearful, he doesn’t need to spook. It takes time to learn the difference in him between actual fear and being dumb, but when he’s just being dumb, correct him. I.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree with this. If he’s just being a goof, it might be time to lay into him a little. Sometimes just a bump of the inside leg and a “knock it off” is all you need to get their attention back on you.
[QUOTE=Jersey Fresh;8227457]
See this is where he’s odd-he takes offense to somethings and not to others. Some days I have to smack him bc he’s lazy and too quiet, others he comes out like a fire breathing dragon. He’s sensitive and alert but I think maybe it’s a combo of maybe ulcers, being hyper alter and having my number bc I’m nervous to get after him. I honestly don’t know what he would do it I smacked
Him as he spins.[/QUOTE]
Once you have ruled out physical causes, as has been mentioned by other posters …
I learned from mine - do NOT get involved in a personality/mood analysis. That is you falling down the Alice in Wonderland rabbit hole with him. One of you has to be the sane level-headed one - - and whatever the reason, it can’t be him. This kind of thing is a huge distraction to you from riding consistently and well.
The ride improves 100% when I think more about me than him. Sounds counter-intuitive, but I should have one and only one thought: What am I doing right now for the specific movement/task we are doing right now? Meaning, only correct riding for this purpose, not corrective measures.
Instead of correcting the horse, correct your riding. That has been the secret with my highly distracted horse.
Each and every moment keep replaying these questions: Am I sitting correctly? Is my leg correct? My balance? Hands and eyes? etc. etc. etc.
Especially as competitive riders, many of us get in the habit of making little corrections for the judge. But this is hugely distracting to a distractable horse, who has other distractions on his mind, anyway. I think this is where explosions tend to build up as the horse becomes overwhelmed.
Instead, just ride absolutely correctly for the task of this instant, and don’t acknowledge his evasions other than by increasing your correctness. If you are on a trot circle, stick with your trot circle aids and don’t distract yourself by trying to fix a head-jerk or even a spook. Instead of telling the horse “don’t do this” and “don’t do that”, tell him only what he should be doing …
There are no negatives “don’t look at that” and “ignore that”, only positives of great conviction "trot circle trot circle trot circle … "
With my horse it feels as if I have built a box that allows only a trot circle, and inside the box he is bouncing around trying to see out and knocking into the walls … BUT he is doing a trot circle. It rides like trash and just on feel can be very frustrating … but it looks better than it rides! It is like nothing else on any of the many horses I’ve ever ridden. This horse has won the dressage at several events and small schooling shows, while I thought we were about to be laughed out of the ring, and turned in credible jumping rounds.
The alternative to this: me wishing we were on a trot circle while trying to correct a dozen evasions every few seconds, and horse actually doing a trot egg, or trot freeform shape, or trot-spook-forgot-walk-canter-trot something or other.
I read something today (listened in the car, actually) that made me think of this discussion, and I want to recommend it to this thread …
novel “The Curious Incident of the Dog In The Night”
Fictional first-person account of a boy with functional autism, or something like it, navigating his way through events many people would find confusing.
For the purposes of this discussion you don’t have to read the book. Just one section of a few paragraphs, about 2/3rd’s through the book. This is not really a spoiler to the story, I don’t think.
The boy is alone on a journey and makes his first visit to a public train station (in an urban community in England). He expects to understand the train station and know what to do because he has a toy train station at home and knows about tickets and timetables and so forth.
But the actual station proves to be a traumatic event. The people, the signs, the smells, the constant movement, all are overwhelming. He perceives every detail on every sign and advertisement, and can’t filter out what doesn’t matter to him and what he should pay attention to. He goes into a kind of frozen mode, until a helpful security officer talks to him and directs him to just what he needs to do to buy a ticket and get on the train.
I thought … that is our horses, especially those that are more distractable than most. That’s why some settle down in warm-up and then meltdown in the ring. That’s why they are staring outside the ring at the unfamiliar, and ignoring what is more recognizable inside the ring. Horses are farsighted and instinctively perceive everything unknown as a threat. These horses are perhaps less able to distinguish what matters and what does not. They are already mind-blown by the visuals and odors, now add a rider and a task …
The book section is worth a read for an excellent, detailed description of what this boy experiences and why it affects him as it does. It might give us some insight into our spooky looky horses!
Thanks everyone! I’m going to treat him for ulcers, and take a of the suggestions posted here and work hard on myself. I will post an update (hopefully) in a couple months. Thank you for all of the suggestions. I think a big part of this is “Im bored so I make things fun by spooking/I’m too up/I’m a busy body and nosey/I have my moms number”.
I have a game plan of treating him for ulcers, taking him to some CTs and jumper shows in august, and having a pro sit on him as a non compete at the KY Classique while working on me being braver and getting after him when the spooks aren’t him being legitimately scared (and even then, working on making him listen to my leg no matter what).
Thank you for all of the great suggestions. Im going to read through the thread a few more times to make sure I got it all.
I’ve been reading this thread with interest and I love the term “recreational spooker”! I think I have one of those but didn’t have a handy term for it. Towards the end of a ride my goofball (but adorable) young OTTB will tend to find things to react to or get silly about. It is a challenge to “ride every stride” to keep his attention but will surely make me a better rider
“Instead of telling the horse “don’t do this” and “don’t do that”, tell him only what he should be doing …”
“…many of us get in the habit of making little corrections for the judge. But this is hugely distracting to a distractable horse, who has other distractions on his mind, anyway. I think this is where explosions tend to build up as the horse becomes overwhelmed.”
And I like the image of the horse bouncing around in a box you’ve created while you remain the constant consistent sort of mantra, or ballast, for the horse. It’s difficult when there is lots of the bouncing and more, but I feel strongly that keeping the image of want you are striving for is more effective in the long run. Much better for my mind also.
Well we had battle #1 yesterday. He planted his feet when I asked him to walk through some water and tried to slowly spin left to avoid it. I smacked him once behind the leg and kicked and it was a non issue. I worked on forward, forward, forward the whole ride, no looking etc.
We ventured out of the ring to where my trainer was playing with her babies and had zip tied pool noodles to a couple of jump standards. I knew it would be a issue as even from a distance it had ilicited a snort and blow. I rode him up, he tried to spin and I kicked and made him stand there. When he tried to spin, I just kicked him forward and made him look and stand still. After a few kicks, we walked up NBD and after a couple mins we were trotting circles around it and between the two. So that’s a glimmer of hope. It helped that it wasn’t a hard spin, just a “crap no I’m out” but I immediately asked him to leg yield and pay attention after I gave him a sec to stand and process. I let him look as long as there was no going backwards or spin involved.
The other day when I rode horsey was great for half the ride. I took a walk break, read a dressage test from my pocket, everything was fine, went back to work and horsey is freaking about a dog that is watching us, that was there before, then freaking about a big truck noise on the road that is 100 feet away, then spooking at a Breaking TWIG in the woods. WTF. Definitely recreational spooking.
The KHP police have a Civilian Equine Sensory clinic in September. I participated two years ago and learned a lot about how to deal with my horse who is like this. It is not a magic cure-all, but it gave me ideas about where his issues are and I was able to continue doing the work at home afterward. You might want to check it out.
:eek:
