Help with a spooky/looky horse (not at jumps, at things all around)?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=Jersey Fresh;8231977]
Well we had battle #1 yesterday. He planted his feet when I asked him to walk through some water and tried to slowly spin left to avoid it. I smacked him once behind the leg and kicked and it was a non issue. I worked on forward, forward, forward the whole ride, no looking etc.

We ventured out of the ring to where my trainer was playing with her babies and had zip tied pool noodles to a couple of jump standards. I knew it would be a issue as even from a distance it had ilicited a snort and blow. I rode him up, he tried to spin and I kicked and made him stand there. When he tried to spin, I just kicked him forward and made him look and stand still. After a few kicks, we walked up NBD and after a couple mins we were trotting circles around it and between the two. So that’s a glimmer of hope. It helped that it wasn’t a hard spin, just a “crap no I’m out” but I immediately asked him to leg yield and pay attention after I gave him a sec to stand and process. I let him look as long as there was no going backwards or spin involved.[/QUOTE]

Great! Sounds like you are making progress. A lot of it is your mindset. I needs to be not focused on the spook as much as getting him to do what you asked and staying confident (and being fair in what you are asking). What I often find is that as you do not make a big deal of things…they do not either. They may always have a spook…but it will get less and less…and easier to get their mind back in the game.

[ccr0009]

When I was a working student for Allison S she had a wonderful philosophy that allowed her to ride some difficult horses at the top levels and helped me with mine. I matched with one of her ex-upper level mounts who despite running at the 3*** level, was the biggest spook.
According to Allison (and now me) some horses are naturally spooky. It’s not about acclimating them to different things, but instead, make it about following rider’s instructions. Burg was incredibly spooky at things outside the ring, but as soon as I put on my leg he would go wherever I asked him too. Whether that be by a tent outside the ring for me or the Head of the Lake for Allison.

I start young horses and what I focus on is that my horse is attentive to me at all times. So I’m pretty adamant that my 3yo leads correctly, is light to my aids, little things that show him when I add pressure somewhere- you move. Once this is established, I can ask the horse to do much more because it’s not about teaching him something new, but he’s just moving off of pressure that I put him on.

I am not a huge fan of the ‘conditioning’ theory that uses repetitiveness until a horse makes no reaction. First, because there will always be something slightly different in the situation, size, speed of the blowing tent, that you haven’t acclimated him too. Secondly, you can use the spook as an advantage. I want my horse to have some self-preservation and quickness. Burg’s made him incredibly scopey and careful over fences. I needed to always be smart and aware of what was going on. No it wouldn’t be smart to walk on the buckle along the edge of the ring , but if I was attentive I always had an obedient horse.

Food for thought. I love philosophy.

edited-more food for thought. I sound like a natural horsemanship junkie. I just like studying how horses react.

For your situation, I would do little things that I knew I could control and handle that would show my horse I am boss/lead mare. So whether that be on the ground, I gently place my hand on geldings chest he backs up or in a friendly low-key area I ask my horse to trot and he’s immediately responsive. In herd situations lead mare pins ears back, if horse doesn’t back off one kick/bite, then done. Lead mare can now tell lower-hierarchy horse what to do. Nagging or consistent bullying isn’t in the horse’s communication skills/brain. Horse is not respectful or responsive to that.

[OverandOnward]

Based on what most of you describe, I think you are riding my horse! :winkgrin: It is actually great to hear that he is not the only one. Everything he does is what all horses do … it’s HOW he does it, it’s on springs and jet rocket boosters, and it doesn’t seem to have an off switch that either one of us can operate.

One of the best instructors I’ve worked with, the only one who really ‘got’ what was going on with this horse, said she thought that he is very easily and quickly overwhelmed, and then his adrenaline spikes and doesn’t come down.

I asked the local vet hospital if they could take out about half of his adrenaline. They said that’s not on their list of treatments.

A little research didn’t turn up much help on horses or people with more adrenaline than they need, other than to use it up with exercise. My horse is most rational and does go best when he is on full eventing conditioning program - # of rides per week, trot sets, gallop sets, whole deal, so I do think my instructor’s adrenaline observation is likely valid.

I also think the comment of ccr0009 / Allison S “It’s not about acclimating them to different things, but instead, make it about following rider’s instructions.” is right on.

On a given ride, I can repetition-condition to quit spooking every time we pass Identical Clone Jump Standard #28 in the ring, or even move/remove #28 … and he will start spooking at something else. It isn’t the thing, it’s the spook that he is after.

So yes, it is about paying attention to the rider No Matter What. That’s tough because horse brain tends to disconnect-on-spook, but that’s what we work on. Caveat that natural hardwiring to disconnect-on-spook means this work is a bowl that is never full.

And the futility of de-sensitizing is also a disconnect with the traditional input from instructors & clinicians who don’t yet know this horse. They want to desensitize Identical Clone Jump Standard #28. I have to explain that he’ll just transfer the energy to spooking elsewhere. The good clinicians do remember Sir Spooksalot’s behavior when they see him at the next clinic a year later!

There is another bit of behavioral fallout re instructors. For about half the years I’ve had this horse I was not in a trainer barn, and so I’ve worked with a small list of trainers/clinicians. Well, once each of these instructors has his number, he/she AVOIDS getting on my horse. They get on other horses for a few moments to demonstrate or fix … but not Spooks, although heaven knows there is a lot to fix. I think they know that that This Horse will make them look like an idiot in just a 2-3 minute ride. It takes longer to get his attention and establish the boundaries. Anyone else run into instructors reluctant to demo-ride your spooky/looky horse?

One of the few exceptions was Gina Miles in a clinic the year after she won Olympic Silver, and I salute her for getting on a difficult horse when the rider really needed the help to understand. My horse has the honor and distinction of having come this close to dumping Olympic Silver Medalist Gina Miles in a Beginner Novice clinic. I could see her shocked expression as she was swinging out in space beside him after he pulled a Level 10 Spook-Evasion at a jump standard! Great save by Gina! :lol: She got him going, though, and declared he was a lot of fun through a 5-jump gymnastic and took him through a couple of extra trips with smiles from her and him both. My hat is off to every instructor who will voluntarily demo-ride Sir Spooksalot! :winkgrin: :yes: :lol:

[Jersey_Fresh]

Just wanted to post an update. The spooking issues have gotten MUCH better. Ive changed a few things, so Im not sure what I can attribute to the change but Im ok with that.

I started with treating him for ulcers with a round of GG and following up with SP’s SmartGut Ultra. I now always flat him in a dressage whip and neck strap to be confident about getting after him when he spins. The second he stops to look, I nail him and make him go. We also have worked on focusing on the job ahead (like if im cantering down to a fence and can see his eye lashes on one side, hes not focused on the jump but something else). Ive also started giving him about half a scoop of his feed (senior) immediately before riding him whenever I trailer him off property, be it a show or schooling. That helps him focus on something good rather than being busy looking around, and also there is some evidence gut fill helps if there is an ulcer issue.

We showed at the horse park this weekend and there was crap everywhere, and he marched past it all and focused. I did all of the above, and also got on him before stadium early so we could walk around and relax. Hes also been great off property at new places (still looky but feet stay on the ground). I even around him around the KHP by himself in a loose ring snaffle and he was calm, cool and collected with only one minor spook.

I dont think he will ever been bombproof but this was way, way better.

[OverandOnward]

Thanks for the update. That is very useful data! Congrats on your hard-won improvements!

[californianinkansas]

Congratulations!

[TatteredDaydreamer]

Awesome update!! Congrats!

[FatDinah]

You’re on the right track. Keep focusing on you being calm and kind and transmitting a “so what” attitude to things. The horse will learn to follow your lead.
I often sang to my horse, a big lookie-loo when young, in the schooling ring or on a new trail alone. For one thing, it keeps you breathing and not tense!!! I sang “The Water Is Wide” and I swear just hearing me begin the first verse calmed him down.

[wookie]

i had all my ottbs and one sale horse on triple crown senior and i found the same thing. i now have them on blue seal performance with mineral supplements for none of them require the full scoop. much better behaved.

[Jersey_Fresh]

[QUOTE=wookie;8360409]
i had all my ottbs and one sale horse on triple crown senior and i found the same thing. i now have them on blue seal performance with mineral supplements for none of them require the full scoop. much better behaved.[/QUOTE]

Im not sure if this was posted to the wrong thread, but I wasnt implying senior made him spooky. Hes still on it and has been since I got him.

[KayBee]

Hey - we were prob at the Horse Park at the same time.

Last year I had a stop there, on the way to fence 2 because the trailers and associated activity were Very Distracting.

This year, I kept my eye on the fence and fanned my crop at the shoulder when I felt her attention drift, which… worked!

Congrats on your success!

[Jersey_Fresh]

[QUOTE=KayBee;8360792]
Hey - we were prob at the Horse Park at the same time.

Last year I had a stop there, on the way to fence 2 because the trailers and associated activity were Very Distracting.

This year, I kept my eye on the fence and fanned my crop at the shoulder when I felt her attention drift, which… worked!

Congrats on your success![/QUOTE]

Man I would have needed a cattle prod to get him near it. Sigh. Hes spooky but not normally that spooky so that’s why I thought something else was going on.

[Simbalism]

Maybe try something really simple like ear pom poms. When my TB mare was younger, she really wouldn’t spook that much at really close things. She would stare off in the distance and see who knows what that would spook her. I started using ear pom poms with a mesh ear/fly net to keep them in. I jokingly told my friends that doing this kept her brain in her head instead of leaking out her ears. I have to admit that at age 21 she still gets her ear foo foos as I call them. I figure if I get good results with my rides and my mare is pleasant to ride, I will continue to use this extremely inexpensive crutch…hehe.

[Jersey_Fresh]

Thanks, Ive updated it since the OP. I think it was gut related. He jumps in puffs so it wasnt that (nor would that explain the spinning at things he can see).