HEMLOCK boards vs. pressure treated boards for slip rail fencing. Thoughts?

In October friends and I fenced the initial part of my property with 3 hole slip board (not slip rail) fencing. Pressure treated posts, pressure treated boards. That’s all the mill had so we didn’t have any choice about the materials. I like it. It looks good and it’s held up well so far. A few of the boards have cracked and completely fallen apart. A few more are warped or bent up at the ends but still pretty fine looking.

I am now about to fence the rest using a contractor. An Amish contractor that is well respected in the area quoted me both pressure treated boards and hemlock boards. The hemlock is a savings of about $1000 on the entire project. He was pretty pro-hemlock, citing the warping. He said the hemlock are more rough hewn but just as strong and it’s a material he prefers. I was initially thinking that nothing could beat pressure treated for durability but maybe I am wrong given the few that have already failed. We would use pressure treated POSTS regardless. The question is just which boards to use.

Any feedback?

Non-horse people scoff at the idea of any outdoor project in non-pressure treated being more practical than pressure treated… but you sure do see a lot of hemlock horse fence. Then again, there’s a barn in the area with hemlock fence, can’t be more than 10 years old, and a lot of it is really chewed, worn, and falling apart and looking like it’s time for replacement.

I’m leaning towards the pressure treated.

I have locust posts (and oak top boards). They were put in 10 years ago, and look pretty much the same as the day they went in.

Since they are as good if not better than pressure treated, why not avoid putting those chemicals into the ground? At least that’s my thought.

I mistyped!!! Hemlock, not locust!!’

Hemlock posts (ground contact) will last 5 - 10 years in the NE. Hemlock Fence Boards (non-ground contact) will be equal to PT.

Since fence installation labor is the major portion, I would not use untreated hemlock posts.

Be aware that Pressure treat is not all the same. There are different chem systems and levels of treatment.

A farm I worked at used hemlock boards for their fencing. They changed from oak to hemlock to try and save some $ and they were told that horses do not like the taste of hemock and would leave the boards alone. Huge mistake! They horses love to chew the boards, they are soft and break very easily. Its only been about 10 years now and they look terrible. I would never purchase hemlock after this.

We have our own farm now and went with oak boarding and are very happy with it, though a few boards did warp and twist a bit, they of course have held up well with no breaking or chew marks.

We did use simple fencing boards around the house where the horses are not turned out as it saved us a bit of $. We installed it about 3 years ago and it still looks good. They were just a pressure treated board for backyard fences.

I used to board at a farm that had locust posts and you needed to drill a pilot hole or you would bend the nail. Is there any way you could go locust posts rather than PT?
I think his top boards were oak and held up great.

The bottom line to me is if you want any wood fencing to continue to look nice over year put hot wire on it. Horses will be as destructive as they want regardless of the fence material in my experience.

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Hemlock is only soft until it dries out and then it is incredibly hard. Horses probably do like to chew on it b/c that’s what horses do to wood fencing.

We use it for barn and trailer floors, and it is very durable.

Our entire shelter is made of roughcut hemlock.
My horses pretty much live outside 24/7.
It’s been up for several years and does not have one single tooth mark on it!

My horses don’t put their mouth on fences. I know everyone says that but it’s actually true. I am not terribly worried about chewing. I am more worried about deterioration from weather/the elements.

Since it’s slip board, not nailed board, there shouldn’t be any nailing except the corners and the fence installers are doing that.

Not much feedback on the pressure treated, huh? It only saves me $1000 to do the hemlock and the part I did already was PT. It seems to be doing fine.

I wasn’t given an option for oak top board but I can ask.

Like me you are in PA a state that has lots of oak. DO NOT use Hemlock boards! It is candy to horses, it breaks easily, splinters easily just really crappy stuff. We have a lot of slip board and nailed oak. Pressure treated 4X6 is just fine for posts more so for nailed boards than for slip boards. Some of them of been chewed on but mainly were we feed off the fence line. NO horse has gotten sick. The problem I have found with pressure treated pine post for slip board is they tend to split because of the holes drilled in them. So I have to run lag bolts in some of them. Locust post are far superior because of the “tangled” tight grain for slip board they don’t split over time. Superior for nailed board also. But you want to use a nail gun. Hammering by hand would be a nightmare.

I recently finished replacing a section of slip board in late November 2013. When I picked up the posts from my supplier they were out of the oak boards but said they would be getting some in. I space slip board between 9 or 10 feet, use 11 or 12 foot boards. It turned out because it was late in the season my supplier couldn’t get oak boards so I had no choice but to use Hemlock. Yes, they are a bit cheaper than Oak but in a little over a year just about all of the top boards and some of the lower boards have been chewed to pieces. A number of them have broken from being leaned on. The rest of the oak line has been there for several years looks just fine. No broken board and hardly any chewed on. None that need replacing. Now I have to spend a bunch of money to replace the majority of the Hemlock boards that are not even 2 years old.

If you only have a choice between Hemlock or P-Treated I would go with the pressure treated.

Esch Fencing carries Locust slip board post and should have oak board in stock at this time of year. I have other suppliers also. Oak slip board go for around $4-5 each. Discounted in quantity, just ask. Pretty sure they deliver or just get a flat bed trailer and pick up.

This is a link to some of the fencing on our farm. Hope it works. It’s on Photo Bucket which at times takes forever to load. Hate P-B.

http://s1136.photobucket.com/user/gumtreestables/library/Horse%20Fencing%20Oak%20Slip%20board%20and%20Oak%20nailed?sort=3&page=1

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Hmmm - we have hemlock boards throughout our property - 24 turnout paddocks. They have lasted on average 15 years. In all honesty, they could have gone longer, but my husband is a perfectionist and if a board even looks like it might split, he is all over it. We do replace sections on a rotating basis - a paddock or two a year (or more depending on how careless the plowing has been the winter before). There has been a bit of chewing from some if the efence is down and some won’t touch it. My website also has pictures of the hemlock - in my sig line.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8129353]
DO NOT use Hemlock boards! It is candy to horses, it breaks easily, splinters easily just really crappy stuff. [/QUOTE]

Have to disagree with that…

I do agree with dotneko… " we have hemlock boards throughout our property - 24 turnout paddocks. They have lasted on average 15 years."

Our Hemlock shelter has been up for several years and has never been chewed.
And I do have a couple of seasoned wood ‘chewers’ in my herd.

[QUOTE=Mallard;8130831]
Have to disagree with that…

I do agree with dotneko… " we have hemlock boards throughout our property - 24 turnout paddocks. They have lasted on average 15 years."

Our Hemlock shelter has been up for several years and has never been chewed.
And I do have a couple of seasoned wood ‘chewers’ in my herd.[/QUOTE]

There are several “types” of Hemlock. And though all have “Hemlock” in their name DOES not mean they are all of the same “quality”. Pine is pine but not all pine is created equally. Depends on the sub-species, when it is grown, and the age it was cut down and how it was milled. Quality Hemlock is NOT used for fence boards by and large. Especially in this day and age. But it depends on location and demand. I have done a fair bit of renovation/remodeling of old houses. The “quality” of the framing lumber used in old houses, 2x4s etc. in old houses is EXCEPTIONAL compared to framing material that is used today. I have 2X4s from old houses that is twice the weight of the “fast grown” 2X4s on the market today. Because trees were plentiful and demand relatively low Heat of Pine was used for framing material. Heat of Pine now brings TOP dollar for flooring, trim and furniture. Because it was squandered. Which is why wood recycling has become big business in the last 20+ years. Fence board are NOT required to be graded. Quality Hemlock brings quality money. Low grade Hemlock does not. Ungraded Hemlock even less. Hemlock fence boards in my neck of the woods is by and large full of “knots” because it is milled from the outside of the tree and or is from low grade fast grown “tree farms”. Which severally compromises its structural integrity, uses and demand. These type of boards are considered a “by product” and are priced accordingly.

You will never find graded “clear” Hemlock with a tight grain for anywhere near what a “fence” board cost in my neck of the woods. I promise you. It is priced cheap because it is “cheap” wood. The only other use is for siding and not siding for a “high end” building. Run-In sheds or structures of that “type”.
You are located in Canada, Ontario. Millard in MA. Some of the best wood left in North America is from Canada. Because you guys didn’t have the same demand that this country had in the last century. So your forests weren’t “rape, robbed and pillaged”, squandered. The growing conditions in your “neck of the woods” produces a much higher quality. Especially if purchased years ago.

“5 quarter inches” (the thickness) pressure treated boards are produced and sold mainly for “Decks”. By and large they are “knot” free for appearance. They offer exceptional value compare to “dimensional” lumber of the same. I use them for “trim boards” because they cost a lot less than poplar or “clear” untreated pine. When “home milled” and painted it looks the same at a substantial savings.

Pressure treated “Deck boards” not the generic ¾ pressure treated boards are “structurally” superior to Hemlock fence boards offered around here. For good reason they are “graded”.

Sorry for the long winded “tutorial” but this is something I am pretty well versed in. And based on experience in my neck of the woods.

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[QUOTE=Hilary;8128424]
Hemlock is only soft until it dries out and then it is incredibly hard. Horses probably do like to chew on it b/c that’s what horses do to wood fencing.

We use it for barn and trailer floors, and it is very durable.[/QUOTE]

Depends on the species. What you get in NH. one of my favorite states in the country is completely different than what the OP and I can get in PA.

Hemlock falls under “soft wood” but you are correct in saying that it gets harder with age. But it depends on what part of and type of tree it was milled from.

NH is not blessed with Oak like this state. Wrong growing conditions. Hemlock does not come close to fresh cut oak for structural integrity and shear strength.

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[QUOTE=vxf111;8129243]
My horses don’t put their mouth on fences. I know everyone says that but it’s actually true. I am not terribly worried about chewing. I am more worried about deterioration from weather/the elements.

Since it’s slip board, not nailed board, there shouldn’t be any nailing except the corners and the fence installers are doing that.

Not much feedback on the pressure treated, huh? It only saves me $1000 to do the hemlock and the part I did already was PT. It seems to be doing fine.

I wasn’t given an option for oak top board but I can ask.[/QUOTE]

We’ve put up close to $40,000 in fencing. And if you had taken the time to say “thanks for the taking the time to reply” I would have taken pictures of what Hemlock top boards we can get around here look like in less than 2 years compared to 12 year old oak boards that I provide a link to you would understand the value of my advise.

I don’t post to boast. Just to pass on my experiences and save people from buying "worthless T-Shirts.

Use Oak for the top boards and use the cheaper Hemlock for the rest. Or go with pressure treated for the reasons I have given.

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That may be true, gumtree. Our hemlock comes straight from the mill. 16 foot boards are less than $5 apiece No knots. This time of year the mills are having a hard time getting logs in until the mud dries some. We have been waiting on a few hundred boards for a couple of weeks.
Cant beat the price or the quality.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8130975]
We’ve put up close to $40,000 in fencing. And if you had taken the time to say “thanks for the taking the time to reply” I would have taken pictures of what Hemlock top boards we can get around here look like in less than 2 years compared to 12 year old oak boards that I provide a link to you would understand the value of my advise.

I don’t post to boast. Just to pass on my experiences and save people from buying "worthless T-Shirts.

Use Oak for the top boards and use the cheaper Hemlock for the rest. Or go with pressure treated for the reasons I have given.[/QUOTE]

I haven’t been back to this thread to reply since you posted about your experience. My last post was #10. Yours were #14 and later. It’s been LESS THAN AN HOUR since you first posted on this thread and here I am saying “thank you.” Are you seriously annoyed that I didn’t thank you quick enough for posting on my thread? I wasn’t ignoring your advice in post #10. I made post #10 before you GAVE any advice.

I do appreciate the advice. I also sometimes do things other than surf COTH. Like ride. And work. Eat dinner. And various other things that mean there may be at times as much as a couple hour delay before I can come back and say thank you thank you thank you for the advice you gave. Though this time I managed to get back in less than an hour.

And alas many of those same thing (i.e. life) have prevented me from calling the fencing contractor back to ask if oak is an option. I intend to do that but I haven’t had a chance yet.

I am actually very appreciative and I value your advice because you’re local and experienced. I just haven’t had an opportunity to read through/digest/respond yet. Sometimes it’s going to take me more than an hour. If that’s going to annoy you, I won’t be offended if you decide to skip my posts. I hope you won’t because I do value your advice-- but maybe it’s just a little unreasonable to get bent out of shape because I didn’t thank you within an hour for giving free voluntary advice on the internets.

I did look at your photobucket (it worked for me) and the oak looks very nice. So I plan to ask the contractor if that’s an option and what the price would be. Then I’ll have that as an option to consider as well.

Yes, I wondered if the hemlock I get that when dried is so hard you cannot drive a nail into it is different from what is available in other areas. Oak up here would be prohibitively expensive.

But my horse experience says that if they like to chew and get their teeth on the wood, they will do it no matter what kind it is.

Fwiw my board fencing is inexpensive local pine (some version of white) that lasts ten years. On pt posts.

If you can get wood that will last as long as pt but is not chemically treated, I would go with that.

I had slip board fencing for over ten years that was oak and held up very well, but just want to caution you about horses slipping the boards out. I have a high energy, highly intelligent horse and did not have a hot wire or boards screwed in. He figured out that he could remove the boards and encourage a mass exodus, usually in the middle of the night. We screwed the top two boards in a four board fence to put an end to the nighttime parties! I could not convince my ex-husband to go with hot wire which would have worked better.

If I were to do it over again, I would run a hot wire at the top and one partially down the fence. All it takes is one highly intelligent horse who gets bored to cause a major ruckus with potentially dangerous outcomes!