Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

[Alterration]

I am so fed up with this “ooh all competition horses are terribly abused and only this magical guru can fix it” malarkey. I’m not sure why it seems so prevalent right now.

Horses express their opinions all the time. Maybe I just ride really spicy nuggets, but they definitely express themselves. And then we have a conversation whereby I try to convince them that my way is better or that they shouldn’t be afraid of something or what have you, usually by breaking down an exercise into tiny steps and explaining it to them. It is only on the extremely rare occasion that I will resort to any sort of force, and it’s usually reserved for dangerous behavior.

I watched the video, and though you don’t see a bridle or reins, this is a horse being strongly ridden into something it didn’t want to do. Yes, once he went he was happy, but this is not atypical after a horse has resisted doing something. The lack of saddle, bridle or reins is not particularly interesting here. If you think that a bridle is controlling your horse when you ride, you’re missing the mark by far. You have only to watch a horse blast through a bridle and bolt to learn that it is not a tool for domination and control.

The bridle is a communication tool. You can use other communication tools and they aren’t special. People use a ball on a stick, a cordeo, their weight, a flat halter…all sorts of things, and of course…bridleless. You just teach the horse different aids and use your weight to help them understand.

Saddleless. When I was 12 years old I couldn’t tighten a girth tightly enough to keep it on top of the horse, so I rode bareback. I trail rode alone, jumped, swam in creeks, with a flat halter with a lead rope clipped to one side and tied to the other, and no saddle. Since I am no guru, I don’t take particular amazement with someone who rides a horse bareback.

@Benv

Remarkably, Klaus sits on the unruly horse without any saddle or reins and, purely through body language, convinces the opposing horse, with which he journeys through the untamed wilderness of Spain, to overcome a daunting obstacle.

Holy dramatic language batman. He goes down a hill into a ditch.

@Benv

I say this not out of immodesty but as a reflection on the current equestrian scene, which, in my eyes, has not yet achieved what I demonstrated three decades ago.

barf Yeah, no…that’s immodesty. The very definition of it.

@Benv

I believe there is still a long way to go before my approach, characterized by ‘non-training’ and pure communication through human charisma, personality, and body control, can be fully embraced. It is worth noting that this scene unfolded just a year into my journey with horses, building on my prior experiences.”

So…man…I really should have videotaped my first year riding. Because clearly I’d be a guru too. 8 hours a day I spent some days with my little legs sticking out like two toothpicks jumping logs in the forest bareback, crossing creeks and streams, encountering bears and grouse (those were always a little surprising) and letting my horse have opinions about all of those things.

I feel like I’m REALLY missing out on some $$.

I tried to be nice, I really did, but this kind of bunk is really starting to make me ill. The worst part is that it hooks the rank beginner, who then says ridiculous things like “I thought my horse would read my body language and trust me when they were bringing in all the other horses for dinner and I was riding alone, but instead, she took off for the gate so now I’m shocked and afraid we don’t have a good enough relationship”. sigh

It all sounds very nice and sure, there are some people who are mean to horses and attempt to force them to do things, but by far the vast vast majority of people are using modern training (I really like Andrew McLean’s Equitation Science) methods nowadays, at least in the US, to work with horses.

I don’t know why I keep being serious about this, clearly we’re being taken by a troll.

[SusanO]

Little did I know that I had the makings of a training guru when I was a teen. I bought a new Passier saddle but couldn’t afford stirrups or stirrup leathers at the time so I did all my riding just sitting on that flat slippery saddle. Mostly riding through the miles of logging trails complete with deer and wild turkeys. Horse was a SUPER SPOOKY Arabian that was scared of everything, yet we were able to cross streams, bridges, fallen trees. Everything! I think most of us on this thread had the same experiences when we were young so Hempling’s video is akin to those of our friends who couldn’t actually get their horses to do much of anything. The video of the girl/ woman with the pinto that jumps everything bareback - she is impressive! I would love to learn from her. When Hempfling can do that I will be impressed. Right now he is just a self-promoter without much to show.

[Jackie_Cochran]

Hi Benv!

The horses I ride are at perfect freedom to express their displeasure with my aids, their displeasure with my riding, and their sheer displeasure of me making them “work” (walk and trot for 30 minutes a week) instead of hanging out with other horses in the pasture. The first month (4 weekly rides) I start riding a horse and explaining to the horse how I ride it and I get “cussed out” regularly. I listen to the horse and use the horse’s input to learn how to ride that horse better. My riding teachers have learned to give me time to get the horse’s consent to what I ask the horse to do, because I am NOT content with a horse who obeys me reluctantly.
The horses I ride are NOT automatoms or robots, they are intelligent and sensitive animals with their own opinions, who eventually decide that I am all right and usually (not always) end up doing what I ask the horse to do.

I DEPEND on the horses showing their displeasure so that I can learn how to ride that horse in an acceptable manner to that horse. The horse’s displeasure may arise from its mouth, its sides as I use my legs or from how I am sitting on the horse and my weight distribution.

In that video I saw Hempfling re-positioning himself on the horse’s back (where he pushes himself back), at which time the horse stopped resisting and freely obeyed his rider’s suggestions without any more protests, going into the scary place quietly and calmly. It was GOOD of Hempfling to eventually get himself positioned on the horse so the horse had the physical comfort necessary to obey his aids. This is an excellent skill to have for riding horses and I have spent many years learning how to not interfere with the horse’s movements by how I sit on their backs.

There are people who a “natural born riders”. These people can get SO MUCH MORE out of the horses they ride than us people who are not “natural born riders.” All I can do is look at their riding with amazement and despair that I will never be able to do such stuff, and go back to riding my way emphasizing free forward movement and riding in such a way that I do not trigger resistances in the horse. Riding horses does not come naturally to me, which is why I read many, many equitation books and listen to the horses I ride for their opinions of how I am riding them.

At thirty minutes a week it usually takes me a few months until I can ride the horse and get mostly the same reactions with my hands, or using loose reins, or just using my lower legs, or using my thighs, either as a single aid or in combination with one another to get the horse to move like I want. For instance during my lessons I do a winding path around the jumps, sometimes with contact and rein aids, sometimes with sagging reins using properly timed tweaks of my fingers, with my properly timed aids with my lower legs, and lately I have added using just my upper thigh at the right time (with rein aids sometimes to explain stuff further to the horse if necessary.)

The horses I ride are not automatoms under me. They often disagree with what I want. I listen to the horse, I modify whatever I am doing that bothers the horse, and they usually end up obeying my aids somewhat willingly (hey, the horses do not WANT to carry me around, and I know that.) Some horses eventually enter into the spirit of what I am trying, often giving me really subtle suggestions of what I could be doing better, and some of them even end up getting INTERESTED in the work we are doing.

And I am always checking with my riding teachers to make sure that the horse is showing no distress from my riding. Usually my teachers tell me the horses look happy with my riding.

With my problems with my MS (lack of balance, lack of a proprioceptive sense and bad coordination) there is no way in the world that I can FORCE the horse to obey me and the horses are well aware of this. I am completely dependent on the good will of the horses I ride, so I make good and sure not to destroy the horse’s good will toward me.

[Brown_Derby]

Very nice summary. “Imagine you are a horse.”

[findeight]

Thinking back on when I bought my first horse when I was around 20. But I couldn’t afford a saddle. So I bought a cheap bareback pad ( so I didn’t get a rash from horse sweat) and rode the fire roads in the hills and Avocado groves. Never rode in a ring for over a year. Horse was…chubby…and would park it under a tree, tell it “Whoa”, drop the reins and stand on its back to pick Loquats.

Did not realize what a Master I was 50 years ago.

Anyhooo…have a bottle of a Sicilian red on the counter and popcorn in the cupboard.

[jvanrens]

It’s five o’clock somewhere findeight! I didn’t have the cheap bareback pad, but a crappy saddle, made of vinyl. Nasty thing, fortunately the tree was so crappy it broke quickly, so bareback it was. In my case it was picking apples off the trees in the fall. It was a wonderful childhood, though that amazing pony definitely let me know when he wasn’t happy and my youthful backside was deposited on the ground often until we learned how to communicate, and my balance improved!

[Salty]

I did all that, except that I picked apples and blackberries. After buying my pony when I was 15, I didn’t have money left over for a saddle.

Who knew that what we’d thought were just wonderful memories were in reality expressions of our genius!

[findeight]

Remember picking all the fruit, dropping it to the ground, sliding off to retrieve it then standing looking at the bareback horse with hands full of fruit trying to figure out how to get on the horse while keeping the fruit. But figure it out we did, as well as how to steer and stop with hands full.

Those were great horses too. They taught us. No tail wringing either.

[jvanrens]

It was as much fun with a burlap bag full. I figured out how to get it over Charlie’s withers. If I was lucky I could keep his head up long enough I could mount before it slid down his neck.

[Benv]

Since you have been revealing yourself as the masters, as you are, what is than your master opinion about this?

The Astonishing Handling of Stallions - Rearing Breeding Stallion at Ease

[Jealoushe]

Oh my gosh.

The bongos though

There is absolutely nothing extraordinary about this. He’s using very common body language cues and you bet those have been done through training and repetition.

I was at an event a few years ago and a big Eventing stallion was standing outside the ring beside me. A kids dad was holding him. My horse got stung by a bee and went ballistic. The stallion just barely glanced over and went back to sleep.

Now that was impressive.

[jvanrens]

None of us have claimed to be “Masters” except in jest. And oh goody, another rearing horse. Looks like your Master believes in using saddles and head gear after all.

A friend of mine once rode his stallion to a fair to just hang out at the horse show and visit, bareback with a halter. I sat beside him on my mare chatting for about half an hour, not knowing it was his stallion. The horse never much more than looked at the other horses. Just hung out there like a quiet old gelding. Guess my friend wasn’t much of a horseman though by your standards, he never taught his stallion to rear. You’re going to have to do better with your attempts to impress.

[Benv]

You talk about my Master and guru and his skills.
I would have a question to you about your models/ teachers. All the refences I see and Parelli- style pressure- relase Natural Horsemanship. But you also said you despise Parelli.
Why? I would like to understand that?

[Paint_Party]

Anyone know if Nick Peronace is missing a long lost cousin?

[Benv]

@Jealoushe

I was at an event a few years ago and a big Eventing stallion was standing outside the ring beside me. A kids dad was holding him. My horse got stung by a bee and went ballistic. The stallion just barely glanced over and went back to sleep.

But what does that have to do with the video? This a stallion training - the stallion is rearing to express what he wants without any kind of danger in front of a mare in heat. He is not spooked and there is nothing scary around.

[sherian]

meh - I don’t see the point in teaching any horse to rear or encouraging the behaviour in any way unless it is a movie horse, and yes any decent stallion should be able to be worked near a mare in heat - they are quite capable of differentiating between work time and breeding time. Many of us on this forum either own stallions or have worked with them - they are horses just like any other and don’t need to be rearing to express themselves.
A stallion not being an ass is normal with any competant handler, not a wow thing. I am impressed by a horse that does a job well consistently over time, not circus tricks (unless it is a movie or stage horse doing the tricks at a distance in all the associated chaos of a film set) or crossing a ditch for an staged video.

[Benv]

@jvanrens

You’re going to have to do better with your attempts to impress.

Alright. Fasten your seat belts. I am really curious what you think about this thing here - commented by the REAL MASTER himself (no names)? In which way you are going put this apart and turn it into dust? Watch it twice, it is short.

KFH explains KFH VI – Supreme Energy

[Hightale]

Choo choo

[jvanrens]

What a cut up mess of a video. No wonder everyone is mystified.

I’ve worked horses in a round pen before, I prefer them to a square one. His hand wasn’t directing the horse in the direction to go, he was stepping in front of the horse, closing off it’s path, so it was turning to go in the other direction. Round penning 101. Any one who can read a horse’s body language can see this. Like when I used to longe my mare, to stop her I would step ahead of her nose and ask her to whoa and she would stop. Same in a pen. I never claimed to be an extra special trainer, just somewhat educated. I didn’t need some demi-god to figure this out.

[sherian]

yup and it works more or less with any flight animal like cattle or sheep, actually I could probably produce a fairly similar video with a rooster (as long as he was too fat to fly) - it’s basic animal handling skills, just takes a bit a practice and paying attention to the animal, nothing mystical at all.