High Volume, High Quality Kennels

[Horsegal984]

How likely you are to win depends on how good your dogs are, not how many of them. You could enter all but one dog in the class and not win if your dogs are all lesser quality than the lone outside entry in the class.

It’s more like hunters, judging is subjective to a written standard. The dog closest to that ideal will win. Now supposing your breeding program is superior in quality then yes, you still don’t want to enter 6 dogs in one class because 5 will lose. You can however enter one per class into the different age groups, sexes, etc.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;7837825]
It’s more like hunters, judging is subjective to a written standard. The dog closest to that ideal will win.[/QUOTE]

In theory anyway (and perhaps sour grapes on my part).

I showed in open bitches in a class with 7 entries (including my dog). 6 entries showed up. Steward put us in catalog number order. I was first. Don’t know how the judge knew there were supposed to be 7 entries (as they aren’t supposed to look at the catalog).

Judge finished with the 6th dog (I was back at the "front); we’re all stacked and ready for the final go-over and the judge wants to look at my dog again. :eek: And no, this was a go-over like he’d forgotten he’d already gone over my dog once already.

If this was a huge class at the specialty, I could understand this but there were only 6 bitches for pete’s sake.

You tell me how the judge has credibility in selecting the dog closest to the breed standard when he didn’t even remember my dog…

Totally disillusioned me for conformation shows after that…

[SlabSided]

@D_BaldStockings;7833384

Dog shows (and performance events) are not judged on the number of entries from Kennel XX, they are judged one at a time against a standard of perfection…but bringing 5 dogs doesn’t increase your chance of winning anything.[/QUOTE]

True, but the number of dogs in a class determines the points awarded to the winner. That’s why breeders will often “stack” a class with a bunch of their own dogs to bump up the points for the one they hope will win.

[QUOTE=Horsegal984;7837825]How likely you are to win depends on how good your dogs are, not how many of them. You could enter all but one dog in the class and not win if your dogs are all lesser quality than the lone outside entry in the class.

Yup. My one and only foray into breed shows was years ago with an AmStaff bitch. Her first show was against a bunch of dogs all from the same breeder who had stacked the deck trying to finish her bitch with her last major. My dog won, despite the fact I really had no idea what I was doing. :lol: She was very gracious and congratulatory about it. When the same thing happened a few months later in another show with different breeder with some pretty fugly dogs that looked like they’d been taken straight from their chain spot in the yard to the show ring, they were PISSED and shot me dirty looks while talking trash about my little winner.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;7837930]
In theory anyway (and perhaps sour grapes on my part).

I showed in open bitches in a class with 7 entries (including my dog). 6 entries showed up. Steward put us in catalog number order. I was first. Don’t know how the judge knew there were supposed to be 7 entries (as they aren’t supposed to look at the catalog).

Judge finished with the 6th dog (I was back at the "front); we’re all stacked and ready for the final go-over and the judge wants to look at my dog again. :eek: And no, this was a go-over like he’d forgotten he’d already gone over my dog once already.

If this was a huge class at the specialty, I could understand this but there were only 6 bitches for pete’s sake.

You tell me how the judge has credibility in selecting the dog closest to the breed standard when he didn’t even remember my dog…

Totally disillusioned me for conformation shows after that…[/QUOTE]

I am sure the judge had no idea there was supposed to be 7. He just forgot which dog had been first in line. It happens. It stinks to be on the receiving end of a judge’s error, but they are human I guess. My dog once received Best of Opposite to another DOG in a total entry of 4. Not a fun day…but I didn’t stop showing just because of one judge that got confused.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=SlabSided;7838098]
True, but the number of dogs in a class determines the points awarded to the winner. That’s why breeders will often “stack” a class with a bunch of their own dogs to bump up the points for the one they hope will win.

Yup. My one and only foray into breed shows was years ago with an AmStaff bitch. Her first show was against a bunch of dogs all from the same breeder who had stacked the deck trying to finish her bitch with her last major. My dog won, despite the fact I really had no idea what I was doing. :lol: She was very gracious and congratulatory about it. When the same thing happened a few months later in another show with different breeder with some pretty fugly dogs that looked like they’d been taken straight from their chain spot in the yard to the show ring, they were PISSED and shot me dirty looks while talking trash about my little winner. :D[/QUOTE]

It can happen, but most especially in areas where there aren’t enough entries and no possibility to win a major. Some breeds have this problem all the time; I have a friend that has a breed like this and she has had to offer to pay entry fees to encourage others to enter so she can try for the major. Not fun when you lose after doing that!

Dog show people can be weird, but if you only take one day as an example, it might not be a great representation of the sport. Some people manage the disappointment better than others, as with everything in life. And, as a friend said to me once…“I think a lot of these people were bullied in high school”. LOL.

[wireweiners]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;7837930]
In theory anyway (and perhaps sour grapes on my part).

I showed in open bitches in a class with 7 entries (including my dog). 6 entries showed up. Steward put us in catalog number order. I was first. Don’t know how the judge knew there were supposed to be 7 entries (as they aren’t supposed to look at the catalog).

Judge finished with the 6th dog (I was back at the "front); we’re all stacked and ready for the final go-over and the judge wants to look at my dog again. :eek: And no, this was a go-over like he’d forgotten he’d already gone over my dog once already.

If this was a huge class at the specialty, I could understand this but there were only 6 bitches for pete’s sake.

You tell me how the judge has credibility in selecting the dog closest to the breed standard when he didn’t even remember my dog…

Totally disillusioned me for conformation shows after that…[/QUOTE]

Just because the judge went over your dog again doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t remember it. Sometimes if a judge is having difficulty choosing between dogs, he will re-examine one to refresh his memory or clarify something in his mind.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=S1969;7838229]
I am sure the judge had no idea there was supposed to be 7. He just forgot which dog had been first in line.[/QUOTE]

Really? He went over my dog once. Between myself and my dog he could not remember either of us? How the heck am I supposed to think he remembers the breed standard.

FWIW, everyone else in the class was looking at him funny too…

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Where’sMyWhite;7838590]
Really? He went over my dog once. Between myself and my dog he could not remember either of us? How the heck am I supposed to think he remembers the breed standard.

FWIW, everyone else in the class was looking at him funny too…[/QUOTE]

Yes, really. It happens.

I’ve been in two shows where the judge awarded Best of Opposite to the wrong gender (once it was my dog). Hard to miss a penis too, but it does happen.

And I’m sure there are people who won’t show to a judge again because of a mistake like that, but I would probably give them a pass if they otherwise seemed to pick reasonable choices. Some judges have already judged 100+ dogs before your breed even walks into the ring. I am not surprised they sometimes lose their concentration.

If it seemed to be a pattern with a judge, or if they didn’t seem to make good choices, I would probably remember not to show to them again.

[Where_sMyWhite]

[QUOTE=wireweiners;7838288]
Just because the judge went over your dog again doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t remember it. Sometimes if a judge is having difficulty choosing between dogs, he will re-examine one to refresh his memory or clarify something in his mind.[/QUOTE]

I’ve see this… I’m not buying what happened.

He was doing the last dog and we’re all stacking up getting ready for him to step back and look at the class. Instead he looks at me with this expectant look. When I just stood there with my dog stacked, he asks me “don’t you want me to go over your dog”?? That didn’t sound to me like he was going over her again for a second look, he didn’t realize he’d already gone over her. He also didn’t go over any other dog a second time either (yes, if they’re on the fence on which dog to put up, I have seen them go other their mental cut dogs more than once).

And out of six, we didn’t place so another reason why I don’t think he was thinking she was a good choice.

I’ll stick with the performance disciplines from here on out

[GraceLikeRain]

It is WAY more common than people like to talk about in the conformation world. Yes, most breeders are small and their animals are beloved family members. However, go to any region and there is at least 1 big breeder who has 20-40+ dogs that meet the breed standard, do well at shows, and maintain a wait list. They either have a small staff or they maintain their dogs to a different standard than the average small breeder.

In miniature schnauzers we have a few big breeders on the west coast who are independently wealthy. They maintain immaculate facilities and full time staff. They have a lot of dogs but produce VERY high quality animals. We have some local people who fluctuate between 8-15 dogs but maintain good standards of care and individual attention.

Unfortunately, in my area we also have 2 breeders who mass produce. The dogs win at specialties, are campaigned in the top 5 each year, but I know that the quality of life for all but the chosen 1 or 2 is horrible. The class dogs have pee-stained legs, the bitches are finished, shaved, and then immediately bred 3-5 times, and then placed, and the dispositions of their dogs are meek and timid at best. I hate that the industry has people like them and that their dogs from the outside are often credited with being some of the nicest in the breed.

I firmly believe that high volume, high quality kennels exist but it is really hard to do it right.