Sancha LaSilla is by Chinn Chinn from stamm 4965…same motherline as Clinton.
And as a 7 YO she was deemed not good enough for the upper levels. Too nervous. Not disputing the super damline or attacking. Just nice to see her have a rider that worked with her to bring out the best of the breeding.
Terri
Just a question but “who” really gets to claim this mare. Bay says she is a Holst. Mare. The kwpn sight says she is a dutch mare.
She is out of a mare who was ridden by Jan Tops , who’s lines are Westphalien, Holst and Rhinelander . Obviously a fantastic dam , dare I say I covet.
http://www.hipicolasilla.com/article/Article/128 , and Chin Chin speaks for himself.
So it brings up the question of which stud book really gets to claim a “win”.
Damline is Holsteiner. Was this horse registered in La Silla’s own studbook out of curiosity? Haven’t looked that closely.
Terri
[QUOTE=hackinaround;6229258]
So it brings up the question of which stud book really gets to claim a “win”.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know the answer… but I see that in the top 6 horses in that $500,000 GP, 3 are SF and 4 are by a SF sire.
Can’t resist!
I do believe so Terri.
Thanks Hack.
Andy, well put!
I think now more than ever most all of the Euro books bar Holsteiner are becoming more “open door”. Instead of saying it’s a Dutch or Holsteiner ect ect, in future we might say a Dutch bred born in Germany. Yes as I’m writing it sounds horrifically stupid. Maybe country of birth will be more appropriate. I don’t know really.
Bowing out before I really make a balls of it.
Terri
Woops, needed to add Trakhener and Hanoverian are still pretty closed.
Terri
Why is La Silla so successful in placing Mexican bred horses with International riders? There is not one single North American breeding operation that has such a record.
Yes, I know Mexico is considered North American, but to me, it’s more Central. Not English speaking, at any rate.
All I know is that she is by a Holsteiner Stallion and from a Holsteiner stamm.
Cant argue that she is a Holsteiner. LOL
Some of the other top Holsteiners had issues in this monster class. Cristallo , Bella Donna and Carlo all had issues. Pretty much out of character for these world class combinations. Only 3 made it to the jump off if I remember correctly.
[QUOTE=hackinaround;6229258]
Just a question but “who” really gets to claim this mare. Bay says she is a Holst. Mare. The kwpn sight says she is a dutch mare.
She is out of a mare who was ridden by Jan Tops , who’s lines are Westphalien, Holst and Rhinelander . Obviously a fantastic dam , dare I say I covet.
http://www.hipicolasilla.com/article/Article/128 , and Chin Chin speaks for himself.
So it brings up the question of which stud book really gets to claim a “win”.[/QUOTE]
There is no Rhinelander. Besides Polydor , the mare is 100% Holsteiner and from Holsteiner stamm 4965
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6229464]
There is no Rhinelander. Besides Polydor , the mare is 100% Holsteiner and from Holsteiner stamm 4965[/QUOTE]
How can Sonora La Silla be 100% Holsteiner when her sire is a Han/West mix.
Horse Telex lists Sonora as ‘Rheinlander’
By your logic an argument can be made that Sonora is a TB cross as she is at least 1/8 TB.
[QUOTE=S A McKee;6229486]
How can Sonora La Silla be 100% Holsteiner when her sire is a Han/West mix.
Horse Telex lists Sonora as ‘Rheinlander’
By your logic an argument can be made that Sonora is a TB cross as she is at least 1/8 TB.[/QUOTE]
I will repeat yet again. Sancha , not Sanora , is by a Holsteiner stallion and from a Holsteiner motherline…Holsteiner stamm 4965. How much clearer does this need to be illustrated ?
Rheinlander is not a breed of horse…only a registry. Somewhere along the line someone dual registered a mare with RPSI and that’s why you are seeing that.
She has 1 non Holsteiner (Polydor) in the line of 5…Are you folks really arguing that a mare by the Holsteiner Stallion Chinn Chinn and out of Holsteiner motherline 4965 is not a Holsteiner ? Really ?
A Holsteiner mare won the 500k class in Wellington last night. If she has papers from Alfonso Romo or RPSI or KWPN or WESTF or Holst.Verband…doesn’t matter. She’s a Holsteiner mare plain and simple.
Bay it was not an ment to become a argument. It was a question using her as an example. You came on and announced "Holst mare wins …and at the very same moment I saw the same response from the KWPN?
With the inter mixing of stud books and lets use the dam Sonora for lack of ease of use.
Reg RPSI, and La Scilla , but of West/Hann/Holst/and TB breeding. Who takes credit and don’t be clever and say “the breeder”.
[QUOTE=hackinaround;6229823]
Bay it was not an ment to become a argument. It was a question using her as an example. You came on and announced "Holst mare wins …and at the very same moment I saw the same response from the KWPN?
With the inter mixing of stud books and lets use the dam Sonora for lack of ease of use.
Reg RPSI, and La Scilla , but of West/Hann/Holst/and TB breeding. Who takes credit and don’t be clever and say “the breeder”.[/QUOTE]
No arguement from me LOL !
I could care less who gave this mare papers or what book takes credit. She is in fact a Holsteiner mare.
If the shoe was on the other foot and the winner was a TB by Heraldik xx / Contender / Ibisco xx / Manometer xx / Cottage Son xx from TB family 9c and I didn’t say she was a TB or gave credit to the TB stamm …every pair of panties on here would be wadded up in such a knot that it would take a chainsaw to cut it out !
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6229833]
No arguement from me LOL !
I could care less who gave this mare papers or what book takes credit. She is in fact a Holsteiner mare.
If the shoe was on the other foot and the winner was a TB by Heraldik xx / Contender / Ibisco xx / Manometer xx / Cottage Son xx from TB family 9c and I didn’t say she was a TB or gave credit to the TB stamm …every pair of panties on here would be wadded up in such a knot that it would take a chainsaw to cut it out ![/QUOTE]
LMAO visual TMI :lol:
500k
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6229456]
All I know is that she is by a Holsteiner Stallion and from a Holsteiner stamm.
Cant argue that she is a Holsteiner. LOL
Cheers for us!!
500k
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6229456]
All I know is that she is by a Holsteiner Stallion and from a Holsteiner stamm.
Cant argue that she is a Holsteiner. LOL
.[/QUOTE]
Yaay for us!!
Well I’m pretty sure I wasn’t being derogatory. I was careful because I was in a hurry and didn’t have all my facts. Was not going to mess that up! My point in pointing out the damline is that Holsteiner has some of the best in the world. No matter who daddy is I would still consider her a Holsteiner.
My other point is, every time I turn around there is a new registry that takes the best of other studbooks and markets as their own. So slightly confusing anymore.
The thing about motherlines is they’re most important so if a Holsteiner won a big comp, or any highly rated registry, and the dam line was TB, still a huge result regardless of registry.
At the heart of it is a youngster riding a super bred Holsteiner mare who blew away older more accomplished riders and horses. Huge accomplishment.
Terri
I’m a fan of the Holsteiner but the thread title and discussion appear to totally disregard the HUGE presence of Polydor as the broodmare sire in Sancha LS’s pedigree. There is no doubt that Sancha is sired by a Holsteiner-blooded sire and her dam line is that of a Holsteiner, but given that her dam sire is Westfalen and to the best of my knowledge never approved in Holstein, how can she be anything other than a 3/4 Holsteiner-blooded mare?
But more importantly, when you look at the direct branch of Sancha’s motherline, its only when the Rheinland-based breeder put Polydor into the breeding equation that a common branch of this motherline was transformed into a line of international competitors and producers. Sancha’s dam, sired by Polydor, was a 1.6m horse ranked as high as 114th in the world with Jan Tops. Her three full siblings, all by Polydor, were also 1.5-1.6m competitors including the approved stallion Poor Boy, competed by Beat Mandli.
And look at the production success of Sancha’s Polydor dam (Sonora La Silla)… she has produced 4 international competitors, including Sancha. The other three were sired by SF-blooded horses, Fergar Mail, Dollar De La Pierre and Zeus.
Sonoroa’s full sister by Polydor is the dam of Zandor Z.
So, no disrespect to Chin Chin or the Holsteiner motherline, but the influence of Polydor on this direct branch appears undeniable to me. Perhaps it is the synergistic cross combination of this Westfalen blood with the Holsteiner motherline? Afterall, 4 of the 13 approved stallions from stamm 4965 are Rheinlander registered and carry the blood of Pilatus through his sons Polydor or Pilot.
Food for thought 
