I’ve seen some threads over on Horse and Hound (I think), where some people have made up their own batches of Equishure using baking soda and vegetable oil/canola oil with good results.
Has anyone here tried it? Did you add anything to make the mix a little more appetizing? I’m guessing it’s the monoglycerides/emulsifier in Equishure’s recipe that help with the taste?
Surprisingly, horses don’t seem to mind the taste of baking soda. Oil can be trickier, but if you start with a minuscule amount and work up slowly to the desired amount, you should be able to feed it with no problem.
I don’t purposely feed an Equishure substitute, but I do feed both oil (for calories) and baking soda along with pro/pre-biotics for gut health.
I only know about baking soda. When I friend told me it helps prevent gas colic I started putting a level teaspoon in each horse’s breakfast with water to dissolve it. No problem. I use a pelleted feed which dissolves in water.
[QUOTE=Sempiternal;8550620]
I’ve seen some threads over on Horse and Hound (I think), where some people have made up their own batches of Equishure using baking soda and vegetable oil/canola oil with good results.
Has anyone here tried it? Did you add anything to make the mix a little more appetizing? I’m guessing it’s the monoglycerides/emulsifier in Equishure’s recipe that help with the taste?[/QUOTE]
I would think that any positive result would be more fore gut related than hind gut with the home made recipe. Vegetable/canola oil is more than likely going to be digested and absorbed in the small intestine. Given the amount of acid the horse produces on a continual basis, it’s doubtful the bicarb would make its way to hind gut in the way EquiShure is designed to work.
EquiShure encapsulates bicarb in hydrogenated fat. I could be wrong, but I’m thinking that may be the purpose of the monoglycerides/emulsifier…to bind or hold the bicarb within the hydrogenated fat.
Once the bicarb is past the stomach, it is pretty much home free. Ingesta is neutralized pretty quickly in the duodenum. The whole point of the hydrogenated fat in EquiShure is to get the bicarb past the stomach. It, too, undergoes the digestion process staring in the duodenum.
One of the anecdotal tests for hind gut ulcers is to mix baking soda and oil in a 60cc syringe (I forget the exact proportions) and administer a syringe-full for several days in a row. I’ve tried it. Can’t say I’ve seen any results, but then the horses I tried it with also didn’t show any results with EquiShure or Succeed.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8551135]
Once the bicarb is past the stomach, it is pretty much home free. Ingesta is neutralized pretty quickly in the duodenum. The whole point of the hydrogenated fat in EquiShure is to get the bicarb past the stomach. It, too, undergoes the digestion process staring in the duodenum.
One of the anecdotal tests for hind gut ulcers is to mix baking soda and oil in a 60cc syringe (I forget the exact proportions) and administer a syringe-full for several days in a row. I’ve tried it. Can’t say I’ve seen any results, but then the horses I tried it with also didn’t show any results with EquiShure or Succeed.[/QUOTE]
So the idea would be the oil component would carry the baking soda safely through the stomach acids, and further down the gut. Would this work if you mixed vegetable oil and baking soda, or does Equishure have some patented manufacturing process with the hydrogenated oil?
Even if this works, I can’t see how it gets to the hind gut (equishure is claining it treats hindgut acidosis), since fats are absorbed in the small intestine. Plus, how much bicarbonate would you need to alter the PH level back there? If acidosis is caused by excess carbs getting into the hind gut and altering the microflora, thereby altering the PH level, wouldn’t it make more sense to change up the diet and perhaps use probiotics?
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8551135]
Once the bicarb is past the stomach, it is pretty much home free. Ingesta is neutralized pretty quickly in the duodenum. The whole point of the hydrogenated fat in EquiShure is to get the bicarb past the stomach. It, too, undergoes the digestion process staring in the duodenum.
One of the anecdotal tests for hind gut ulcers is to mix baking soda and oil in a 60cc syringe (I forget the exact proportions) and administer a syringe-full for several days in a row. I’ve tried it. Can’t say I’ve seen any results, but then the horses I tried it with also didn’t show any results with EquiShure or Succeed.[/QUOTE]
If I’m understanding the discussion in this study, there must be some that escapes to the cecum…
In Thoroughbreds (6) used in the study , they stated that, “Although the site of absorption was unclear, 29% of the extra Na+ and 45% of the extra fat contributed by the protected sodium bicarbonate (PSB) was voided in the faeces suggested that a significant portion of the PSB escaped digestion and absorption in the small intestine.”
Would it be fair to assume that since the, “Addition of PSB to the diet attenuated the drop in fecal pH, a higher baseline VFA, and lower d-lactate and l-lactate concentrations”, that the point of absorption or majority of absorption would have been the cecum?
As a side note…If 45% of the hydrogenated fat is voided in the stools, would it also be fair to assume that 45% of any fat supplement containing hydrogenated fat as it’s source of fat will also not be used by the horse?
I may order some monoglyceride and play around with a concoction.
On a different note, she gets some oil with her feed to begin with. It was the addition of the bicarb she objected to (and was even less happy to have it syringed into her mouth).
[QUOTE=Scribbler;8551564]
So the idea would be the oil component would carry the baking soda safely through the stomach acids, and further down the gut. Would this work if you mixed vegetable oil and baking soda, or does Equishure have some patented manufacturing process with the hydrogenated oil? [/QUOTE]
That’s the idea. Yes, it works with mixed vegetable and oil, but I suspect you have more loss of product than when you use small boluses of bicarb encapsulate with hydrogenated oils, etc. I have no idea if Equishure has patented their formulation, but the ingredients and the concept are pretty straightforward.
Even if this works, I can’t see how it gets to the hind gut (equishure is claining it treats hindgut acidosis), since fats are absorbed in the small intestine.
It does work. There have been published studies on it. Feel free to google them. Bicarb will have a neutralization reaction with acids, but does not react with the neutral fluids of the small intestines. So the fat coating protects the bicarb for the 20 minutes or so it’s in the stomach so it will not react with the stomach acid. Once it passes through the pylorus into the duodenum, all sorts of fluids are released to both neutralize the ingesta and begin enzymatic digestion.
The pH of the ingesta is back up to 7 by the time ingesta moves into the jejunum. The oils and fats coating the bicarb have also been digested by the bile secretions in the duodenum… leaving the bicarb exposed and free to react. Since the pH in the jejunum and ileum are pretty much neutral, most of the bicarb passes through without reacting.
When the ingesta reacts the cecum, the pH drops again. That drop in pH is more pronounced in horses experiencing hind gut acidosis. The bicarb will react to neutralize the acid. Of course, the amount of neutralization will depend on the degree of acidification and the amount of bicarb.
Plus, how much bicarbonate would you need to alter the PH level back there?
I don’t know the exact amount off the top of my head, and I’m feeling too lazy to look it up or do the math. But it doesn’t take all that much. If you’ve ever worked with acids, a little bicarb goes a long way. It’s been awhile since I’ve feed Equishure, but I seem to recall the serving scoop being one of your standard size supplement scoops.
If acidosis is caused by excess carbs getting into the hind gut and altering the microflora, thereby altering the PH level, wouldn’t it make more sense to change up the diet and perhaps use probiotics?
Excess carbs are just one cause of hindgut acidosis. Many horses still have issues with it even when feed a diet low in starches and sugars. Probiotics are great, but feeding them doesn’t guarantee that they’ll survive and reproduce in the cecum. And there are many, many more species than the 5 or so found in common probiotic supplements. Coated bicarb is cost effective and it works. It’s especially useful when doing “all of the above” to help re-establish a healthy flora in the gut after acidification problems.
I think KERx has something on their website that Equishure is patent pending.
Serving scoop is 30g and feeding rate is:
Grain Forage Feed Rate
Low-Moderate Mostly Hay 10g/100kg BW
Low-Moderate Mostly Pasture 20g/100kg BW
Moderate-High Mostly Hay 20g/100kg BW
Moderate-High Mostly Pasture 30g/100kg BW
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8551975]
That’s the idea. Yes, it works with mixed vegetable and oil, but I suspect you have more loss of product than when you use small boluses of bicarb encapsulate with hydrogenated oils, etc. I have no idea if Equishure has patented their formulation, but the ingredients and the concept are pretty straightforward.
It does work. There have been published studies on it. Feel free to google them. Bicarb will have a neutralization reaction with acids, but does not react with the neutral fluids of the small intestines. So the fat coating protects the bicarb for the 20 minutes or so it’s in the stomach so it will not react with the stomach acid. Once it passes through the pylorus into the duodenum, all sorts of fluids are released to both neutralize the ingesta and begin enzymatic digestion.
The pH of the ingesta is back up to 7 by the time ingesta moves into the jejunum. The oils and fats coating the bicarb have also been digested by the bile secretions in the duodenum… leaving the bicarb exposed and free to react. Since the pH in the jejunum and ileum are pretty much neutral, most of the bicarb passes through without reacting.
When the ingesta reacts the cecum, the pH drops again. That drop in pH is more pronounced in horses experiencing hind gut acidosis. The bicarb will react to neutralize the acid. Of course, the amount of neutralization will depend on the degree of acidification and the amount of bicarb.
I don’t know the exact amount off the top of my head, and I’m feeling too lazy to look it up or do the math. But it doesn’t take all that much. If you’ve ever worked with acids, a little bicarb goes a long way. It’s been awhile since I’ve feed Equishure, but I seem to recall the serving scoop being one of your standard size supplement scoops.
Excess carbs are just one cause of hindgut acidosis. Many horses still have issues with it even when feed a diet low in starches and sugars. Probiotics are great, but feeding them doesn’t guarantee that they’ll survive and reproduce in the cecum. And there are many, many more species than the 5 or so found in common probiotic supplements. Coated bicarb is cost effective and it works. It’s especially useful when doing “all of the above” to help re-establish a healthy flora in the gut after acidification problems.[/QUOTE]
Interesting! This is a very clever solution.
I use equishure on one of my drafts who is prone to colic, colic x5 last year and then last night. Her top line has come back, she is over all more healthy in appearance and is more alert. Has it helped? In a lot of ways yes.
One thing that the vet and I spoke with is that the equishure is specially formulated for the granules to get to where they HAVE to go, and that is past the stomach to the hind gut. Normal baking soda you get in the store does not do this, it is digested and doesn’t get to where it is most needed. The granules from KER does, hence why I personally use that instead of a homemade mixture of stuff.
I purchased some glycerin flakes (monoglycerides and diglycerides, no actual glycerin), mixed it with corn oil and have a small batch mixed with baking soda. Hopefully, it works! If it does, seems like it’ll still be a good deal cheaper than buying Equishure.
[QUOTE=Sempiternal;8559395]
I purchased some glycerin flakes (monoglycerides and diglycerides, no actual glycerin), mixed it with corn oil and have a small batch mixed with baking soda. Hopefully, it works! If it does, seems like it’ll still be a good deal cheaper than buying Equishure.[/QUOTE]
How do you plan on monitoring the effectiveness?
OP: At first, I was not sure why you were dead set on this idea of using glycerin flakes, because my first reaction was that they’d be a butt pain to dissolve. I wasn’t quite sure how you were going to use an insoluble solid powder to protect the bicarb.
But the more I think about it, it’s pretty freaking genius (and probably how Equishure is made). Did you warm up some corn oil, add the flakes, add the baking soda, then allow the whole mixture to cool?
[QUOTE=Brian;8559404]
How do you plan on monitoring the effectiveness?[/QUOTE]
Probably not in a very scientific way. Mainly, I’ll be watching to see if her symptoms decrease and if she gets less agitated about me putting pressure (from my hand) at her flanks and her girth area (mostly right behind her elbows).
She’s gotten fairly reactive about those areas (pinned ears and threatening to nip), when she wasn’t to begin with.
I’m also making sure to keep everything else as constant as possible. With spring coming, that’s not going to be 100% possible as her forage will start changing from solely hay to some pasture mixed in.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8559514]OP: At first, I was not sure why you were dead set on this idea of using glycerin flakes, because my first reaction was that they’d be a butt pain to dissolve. I wasn’t quite sure how you were going to use an insoluble solid powder to protect the bicarb.
But the more I think about it, it’s pretty freaking genius (and probably how Equishure is made). Did you warm up some corn oil, add the flakes, add the baking soda, then allow the whole mixture to cool?[/QUOTE]
Basically, though I waited until the mixture had cooled to add the baking soda.
Heated the oil on high, put in the flakes and waited for them to dissolve. Once they did I took it off the heat. The consistency is somewhat like coconut that’s “solid,” but just on the border of being liquid once cooled. (Photo) It was pretty simple to mix in the baking soda and it looks a bit like frosty. (Photo)
This first time I used 48oz of oil with 400g of the flakes. It’s been a pretty long week (yay 11 hour + days) and if I had been thinking a little more clearly when I threw everything together I probably would have only done about 24oz with the 400g of flakes to get it closer to a 50/50 margin. Obviously, the end result would have been, more than likely, thicker than what I ended up with and I would have mixed the baking soda in when it was still warm. Possibly also closer to a more granule like texture when all said and done?
I’m starting out with approx 50g of baking soda (a touch under a 1/4 cup) and mixing in the same amount (1/4c) of the oil/flakes (I have no idea where my scale disappeared to, so not a clue what that is in grams). This will be her ration for the day’s feedings. Pretty sure the oil/flakes mixture has more mass than the baking soda, so this first ration is probably over 100g total.
I haven’t been using my scale at the barn since I know if I fill up to this line it’s about a pound on my cup, so I may bring that home and adjust this a bit more. We’ll see.
Of course, if someone with more chemistry experience than me has any input, please do so!
Oooo, also the reason I didn’t throw everything together right away is I only had a limited stock of baking soda at home. I definitely forgot to bring the big box back from the barn with me and really didn’t feel like running out for more last night.
Oh and I purchased my flakes from here originally. I see that there is some on Amazon for $16.99/400g here and that’s where I’ll probably buy it in the future.
If your test case is in a stall or someplace where the manure doesn’t freeze solid, a pseudo scientific method may be to test the pH of the manure. You can purchase a digital soil pH tester for under $15. Take some readings prior to administering your formula to establish a baseline. Then, retest several times several hours as well as for several days (or for as long as you’re feeding it) afterwards to see if the pH changes.
If you didn’t mind spending more money, I think it would also be interesting to send some manure to a lab to be tested for fat content prior to use. Again retest afterwards. If you see the fat content go up, I think you could safely assume your product made its way to the cecum. If you see no change in fat content, then it may not have made the full journey.
Just food for thought.
I may pick up a digital soil tester…though right now it may not be feasible as we just got a cold snap (and snow :no:) and I don’t have access to a stall. Testing several times a day just isn’t going to happen with my schedule and there is no way to tell what is her manure vs her pasture mate’s.
My mom’s new OTTB gelding is on stall board however. He’s also showing signs of hind gut issues (though I wouldn’t be surprised if he also had stomach ulcers), so if she’s willing to mess with testing etc. that might be an option. At least until he’s moved to someplace with pasture board.
ETA: Brian do you have any suggestions for labs that would do this sort of testing? May be easier for me than trying to get numerous pH readings.
[QUOTE=Sempiternal;8560122]
I may pick up a digital soil tester…though right now it may not be feasible as we just got a cold snap (and snow :no:) and I don’t have access to a stall. Testing several times a day just isn’t going to happen with my schedule and there is no way to tell what is her manure vs her pasture mate’s.
My mom’s new OTTB gelding is on stall board however. He’s also showing signs of hind gut issues (though I wouldn’t be surprised if he also had stomach ulcers), so if she’s willing to mess with testing etc. that might be an option. At least until he’s moved to someplace with pasture board.
ETA: Brian do you have any suggestions for labs that would do this sort of testing? May be easier for me than trying to get numerous pH readings.[/QUOTE]
As many times as they go in a day, it shouldn’t take too long, for her to offer a fresh sample for you when you are there. The nice thing about the pH tester is the results only take a minute or so.
Might not hurt to treat and test both. Results from two might be more indicative than one.
Dairy One can test manure. It looks like the test is $35 plus $5.00 for pH. They don’t list fat, but I would think they could test for it as well. A simple call would answer that question.
Here’s a link for the manure test form…
http://dairyone.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ForageInfoManure.pdf
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