Homozygous silver stallion - Europe?

Hello,
potential color breeder here.
I wonder whether there are any homozygous silver stallions in Europe with either cooled or frozen semen available? Silver color seems to be popular in USA, but I cannot find any stallions in EU.
Do you know any stallion like that?
Thanks!

What breeds are you interested in? And what gene do you mean by silver? Silver dapple which is actually brown?

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I mean silver gene (ZZ homozygous), not specifically a silver dapple (black bass and silver), it can be either silver bay or even silver chestnut (which has no effect on a horse itself). I ask generally, not about a specific breed. But lets say no minis, I know they have the gene, but Im not interested. More important than breed is that they have cooled/ frozen semen available in EU.

The silver dapple shows up in Welsh ponies and some American gaited breeds like Rocky Mountain foxtrotter. There might be Welsh ponies in Britain that do frozen AI. I’m going to guess that the RM horse is a much smaller more local breed.

However what kind of purpose would your horse be meant to have? Welsh and RM are great animals in their own right but might not be the right mix for all breeding programs.

There isn’t a lot of silver in North American TB WB QH or other performance breeds.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Mountain_Horse

It also turns out that silver dapple horses have tendency to a genetic vision problem especially if homozygous, so while I’ve always liked the color, that puts me off the idea.

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I am still condidering options of what to breed my tb mare to, that is why I am asking. No special purpose, just general trail riding and some basic arena work, so I guess any horse could do that.
I had my mare gen tested for colors, and she is homozygous black, and I am thinking about getting some not so common colored foal.
So, that is why I am asking about homozygous silvers available in EU, as I cannot find any stallions.

Because of the ocular problems mentioned by @Scribbler, you aren’t too likely to find a homozygous stallion from a responsible breeding program anywhere. Responsible breeders avoid breeding silver to silver these days, or at least they should. Similar thing with the “Scottish Fold” cats.

I don’t know if it suits your purposes, but another breed that has the silver gene with at least some regularity is Icelandic.

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Silver dapple isn’t the same as brown. The Z (silver) gene is often called the “silver dapple” gene because of its tendency to create a dappled effect on horses, but that can exist on bay, brown, black, any color.

Brown is just a variation of bay, possibly a variation of Agouti (which we all thought when there was a brown test which came under high suspicion and is now defunct), but maybe other factors, maybe both.

OP- you’re unlikely to find any ZZ stallions in the sporthorse world.

There’s one right in the US if you want to investigate him - Platino (Patent Pending - by Platinum vom Rappenhof, out of an OldenburgXWelsh mare Mantra (Rosmels Creme De Mint/Zeus/Goldstern)) just got his conditional licensing and is silver black.

The Gelderlanders have some Silver in them, Jobica is one line. Bazuin is allegedly Silver but I haven’t ever verified it, and am not sure where his Silver would come from.

Uron is a Gelders source of Silver in KWPN, but I don’t know if his line has any silver sons. Hafke and Aafke are 2 silver mares in Uron’s line, so you might look there. Voice D is another silver mare.

Oldlands Vivaldi IV is a silver stallion, though I’m pretty sure he’s in Australia.

If there is a good colony of Morgans over there, there’s a good chance there’s Silver.

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Yes I know silver dapple isn’t brown :slight_smile:

I was asking a question to clarify what OP understood about the gene. Silver dapple on bay is a taupe color with a white mane and tail. It’s not dapple grey or creme or champagne and I wanted to make sure OP knew that, which they do.

That said, OP, if you breed to a Welsh pony your foal will be a pony, and if you breed to a RMH or Icelandic your foal will possibly be gaited. That is it may do a tolt or amble or running walk, and neither canter nor trot. These are fantastic for trail riding but you will need to reinvent your training and riding system. Gaited horses are uncommon in Europe and you may have trouble finding a trainer outside of Iceland.

I notice that one of the WBs that JB mentions gets silver through a Welsh line. The Welsh/sporthorse cross is relatively common so perhaps you could find other horses with some Welsh genetics but far enough back they are horse sized. Welsh are a British breed so they may be more common in Europe.

The presentat![](on of Silver on bay varies HUGELY, from the common taupey body with “white” mane and tail that is common in some breeds, such as the Rocky Mountain Horse, famous for the Silver gene, to the “no way that’s Silver” of the QH line that Champ’s Guthrie is (was) part of
[IMG]https://www.safyresporthorses.com/uploads/8/8/3/4/8834726/6107853_orig.jpg)

QH’s for whatever reason tend to really muffle the silver expression.

Some Morgans also don’t scream Silver:
[IMG]https://www.horse-genetics.com/images/FoxtonFrostyDawnthumb.jpg)

One of her sons was a very classically colored bay silver when younger

But then matured to be much more subdued like his dam
[IMG]http://www.brookridgemorgans.com/unconventionalside.jpg)

And not all bay silvers have that taupe look
[IMG]http://morgancolors.com/ktmsilverdollar.jpg)

And yes, there may be some silver Welsh crosses who are bigger.

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Honestly, it would be cheaper and less of a headache to simply search for a silver horse that is already on the ground and is suitable for you as a trail riding horse. Breeding your mare without taking conformation, movement, temperament, height, etc. into consideration and only focusing on color, which will already be a crapshoot all in itself, is not being a responsible breeder. Sorry if that sounds harsh but there are already so many unwanted horses on this planet due to breeders not thinking past achieving one specific goal for a foal.

As I mentioned already, it will be much easier and cheaper to simply buy what you want and then you will be guaranteed a horse that has color, conformation, etc. and is the right size and suitability for you.

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Yes to this, especially as the color is rare to nonexistent in sport horse lines, the breeds that carry it are ponies and gaited, and there is the risk of vision problems.

Much more difficult than saying for instance you want to breed a chestnut QH mare to a cremello or a Paint, where you could find many good options within the breed and get compatible conformation.

On the other hand, TBxWelsh is a known cross for sport ponies and smaller kids horses so if you are OK with possibly getting a 14 hand black pony rather than a 15.2 silver horse, that’s an option that might be most accessible in Europe.

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if you want a Silver horse, then I definitely agree buying one. Look into the Oldlands Vivaldi IV stallion and see if importing semen from Australia is an option (assuming he’s still alive, and still there). Even then it’s just a 50/50 chance of silver.

Silver Assured is a ZZ AQHA stallion, and Champ Silverado is nZ
http://www.fleetwoodfarms.com/index.asp?display=stallion

JB, thank you for the recommendation of Platino, hopefully they will ship his semen to EU one day.
For all of you concerned about the future of a potential foal - I am ready to pay for the resulting foal for 25 plus years of its life, no matter whether it turns out to be a good trail horse or even rideable horse. I want to breed my own foal, in the best thoroughbred breeding farm available here, and then have it broke and trained professionally. I have no intention in buying a horse, I want to have the experience of breeding my own foal and I have funds for that.
I know about Oldlands Vivaldi, and I know his frozen semen is actually still available in Scotland, and there is also a silver bay stallion Horizon that has frozen semen available in EU, but they are both heterogyzous. I also know about Silver Assured (no outside mares accepted), and some RMHs (no frozen semen available for EU, through). I really adore TWH Sure Silver, but no frozen semen available.
None of the abovementioned stallions is an option for me right now, as they either have no semen available in the EU, or are heterozygous.

Then I suspect you’ll be waiting a long, long time for a ZZ stallion to be available to you :frowning: As someone mentioned above, good breeding practices will avoid the possibility of producing ZZ horses because of the eye issues.

I would start stalking the Morgan breed as a whole, as I suspect they will be more likely to have ZZ stallions available in general, and who knows what their availability will be. And, a Morgan x TB is typically a very nice cross, at least assuming both sides are breeding quality.

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Have you looked at Comtois or Ardennais? Seems like they would be a more prevalent source locally for silver.

Radical questions, I know for a color breeder, but what are your riding goals? What do you want improved in your mare?

If you select a stallion by color only, you will be very disappointed after the initial “isn’t it pretty” wears off.

That said, this assumes that you want to ride this foal. If you just want something “pretty”, then disregard this altogether.

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Definitely good sources of Silver, but they are so heavy they are not anything I would cross on a light saddle horse breed.

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Comtois breed standard is 14-16 hands and 1500-1800 lbs so they aren’t much different than the Clyde’s and Percherons crossed on TB’s for the hunt.
[h=1]http://www.chevalcomtois.com/en/trait-comtois/standard-cheval-comtois.html
Standard of Comtois horse race[/h]
Medium size : height : 1,50-1,60 m
weight : about 650-800kg

Meaning and square head with a lively expression and small well planted and very mobile ears.

I see them more similar to Belgians, which historically don’t cross well on light horses. It’s just not a cross I would purposefully do.

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