And ultimately who wants to deal with all that all the time?
My Ottb could be spicy, spooky, FORWARD, but we trained him to be less so because, well, that meant he was safer, and if I needed someone else to handle him (see boarding) or ride him, well that’s just the right thing to do for the horses future.
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Right - which is why @AdultEmmy was advised to get help, and why I was SO relieved to see the updated video with her new trainer, who seemed to be able to handle it well.
Here’s a video of 8 year old kids trotting around at Louisville on hot and spicy horses 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej5i4f8cb0I
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My main saddlebred is a joy to ride. Again, I’ve thrown rope off of him, done obstacle courses, trail rides, jumped courses, given kiddie rides, and ridden him after major hip surgery.
And he has gotten A+ reports as easy to handle everywhere he has been boarded. I brought him home because I hated that he was getting less turnout than everyone else because he was so compliant.
It’s the QH you have to watch. He looks quiet, but if you handle him incorrectly, you’re liable to get hurt. He shocks everyone. I keep having to say “dude, don’t be fooled” - he is super awesome until he isn’t. My other QH so far is more typical.
What I am describing is the difference between inborn temperaments, which requires different handling. That’s it, that’s all.
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And here’s an academy class- these riders are on school horses, so they are riders that generally don’t own a horse themselves. Again, you’ll see how the horses are expected to look and be ridden.
You don’t have to love the discipline, you don’t have to agree with it, or anything like that, but the expectations of the way the horse looks and feels are different, and thus when you are trying to bring one over to the sporthorse world, it’s good to understand what the horses were expected to go like, how they were expected to be ridden, and what behaviors are a big deal and what behaviors are not a big deal.
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But not all of any breed is alike.
You keep mentioning your QH as if all QHs are like yours for example.
No one would recommend the OP get a horse like your QH.
But a QH, like the horse OP is lessoning on, could be a better option.
It’s not about the breed, it’s about the suitability of the individual to meet the ability and desire of the owner.
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Ok.
Arabs are all individuals as well though. I started riding one as a 5 year old child. And have known plenty of other people who did as well.
With that said, there are plenty of horses who AREN’T a good fit for kids or inexperienced adult ammys.
Breeds may have general tendencies as a group, but horses are still individuals. I just think it’s odd to declare that all Saddlebreds are safe for children and beginners. Because they are Saddlebreds. And that their behavior is different than the same behavior in other breeds. I’m sure there are individuals that is true for - maybe your horse - but there are also plenty of Saddlebreds out there who aren’t child safe or beginner safe.
Hopefully the trainer who is actually working hands on with Honey and the OP will evaluate the basics of their situation. And whether it’s a good fit or not. And what is the best way forward for the horse and the rider.
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Any horse could be a good or worse option.
I’m mentioning the QH because using his name would be a bit weird since you don’t know him. But most people would THINK him more suitable because he stands quietly on the cross ties, looks half dead under saddle, and tolerates people yanking on his mouth. Oh, and he has never offered to buck or rear.
He’s been shown successfully across the country, a real BTDT horse.
But - when he does explode, it’s REALLY big. And he has done so on the longe line and in hand more than once, and he will NOT hesitate to plow you over.
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I didn’t say that all saddlebreds were suitable for all riders. Not even remotely. I really do love how twisted my words get.
Yes of course. Before I got too tall for many of them, I enjoyed them as well. Rode a spectacular little Arabian jumper through high school. Darn thing didn’t flat walk without considerable effort, but he got me around a course beautifully.
This is the part that IS true. Their body language and behavior means different things. Just like the Doberman. If a beagle looks at you with a stiff body that is aggression. If a doberman looks at you with a stiff body…they may just want a treat.
What was being asserted here was that no saddlebreds were suitable for children or beginners which is nonsense. Just because they have a different look, have a different energy level and have had different expectations of their behavior in saddleseat land does NOT make them inherently unsuitable.
I don’t know how many other ways I can state that.
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Ok. But you seem to have linked to multiple videos now trying to prove how they are great for kids, etc etc etc.
Maybe the horses who are showing with kids in those classes are safe for children. That seems likely. But is Honey? Has she ever been shown - or even trained - in a structured saddle seat program? I admittedly haven’t read all the threads about this horse, but that seems unclear still? Like… how old is Honey and what is her actual training and showing history?
You keep on sharing videos of horses trained for Saddleseat showing and using them to explain behavior of other Saddlebreds. Maybe it applies:… but also … maybe not. There are plenty of grade Saddlebreds out there who were never trained in an organized program… and some that were probably never trained at all… and if those horses throw their head up and run off… it’s a TRAINING problem.
Again… I have only skimmed the thread. But from what I have seen, it’s actually mostly a matter of a lot of people being concerned that Honey isn’t a great fit for the OP. Because it seems like the OP is having trouble riding her and is nervous. It does not seem like the thread is about bashing Saddlebreds or saying they are all bad for beginners.
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Wow. This thread sure isn’t a great representation of the breed.
Im glad the OP has a trainer to help her. I’m sure she’ll do well by her horse.
As for Alterration, I have no words.
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Stop it.
Saddlebreds are just like Dobermans and are totally child safe.
Just joking. Sort of.
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You may have missed where I entered the thread. There was a lot of “you need to get rid of this horse”.
No - good lord - twisted again. I was responding to “no children should ride saddlebreds” which has been asserted MULTIPLE times by multiple posters. I don’t know how responding to a direct quote is the same as saying anything about Honey at all.
So let’s go back to Honey. Honey is a Pinto Saddlebred. Not grade, she spoke with her breeder. Most saddlebreds are bred specifically for saddleseat. There were some Amish folks breeding solid saddlebreds but most have moved on to the DHH because they bring more money.
Her original training is murky but since so very few of them start out in anything OTHER than saddleseat land and so few sporthorse people know anything about saddleseat land, it’s important to view Honey’s behaviors from the POTENTIAL of coming from a saddleseat background. Which is what those of us who chimed in originally stated. And that’s when the thread diverged a bit.
Then people started to argue about that, and THEN a bunch of us who had saddlebreds all started to enjoy stories about our silly goofy horses, when some very rude folks decided they were going to assert that we were all ridiculous for enjoying our silly goofy horses and that Honey was horrible and awful because she was a saddlebred behaving very typically like a saddlebred coming from saddleseat land, so a translation effort was attempted.
What I will tell you is that Arabians suffer from the same bias. And it’s bad. There are people who won’t have one in the barn because they snort and fling their heads around. And no, not all Arabians. But there are people who see breed characteristics and miss the boat.
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The snark is becoming.
I think I’m done responding to a troll who clearly wants to just twist my words. Here, I thought we could have a good conversation like we’ve done in the past when we’ve come from different positions. My bad.
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Ok. It was a cheap shot… I apologize… but seriously… Doberman‘s are pretty high up there when it comes to bite statistics. Your example fell totally flat with me when it came to the whole dog issue.
Back to Saddlebreds and Honey.
You don’t even know if this horse has been trained in a structured way. I don’t understand why you would assume that her behavior comes from training you aren’t even sure she received.
What I do know? Knowledgeable people working with horses of unknown origins who have challenging behavior tend to go back to basics and try and suss out if the horse got basic training. Does it reliably halt. Does it yield to pressure. Does it steer. Does it reliably go forward when asked. The new trainer seems to be working through these basic questions with the mare. That’s what it sounds like to me. The trainer seems to be trying to identify if there are obvious holes in basic training.
I think it is irresponsible to tell the OP, who is admitted beginner who bought a horse with an unknown level of training, “Oh. Don’t worry about it when your horse pops up and refuses to go forward. It’s a Saddlebred thing. It’s safe when they do it. She probably had Saddleseat training at some point. Just ignore your nerves and have fun and ride through it. That’s what I do with my Saddlebred! I love him! He’s just silly and goofy, and none of the behavior is REALLY actually dangerous.”
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But that’s not even remotely what I said. Not even close.
I’ve seen the videos of her behavior and videos of her being ridden. It’s REALLY clear from the videos.
#1 Dog bites have been golden retrievers for awhile. Perhaps you mean fatalities. That is a different story (Dobermans are like #9 on the list) and we can discuss that particular technicality if you’d like.
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Source?
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@Alterration, this is sort of off topic, but it seems like you could give me a suitable answer. I am a hunt seat rider just riding lesson horses now though I used to own horses (Arabs! and part Arabs mostly).
One reason I love Arabians so much is that before I get up on one I never saw, handled or ridden before, I can explain to the horse that I am severely handicapped, my balance and coordination are bad and I cannot ride too many high jinks nowadays. So far these Arabian hunt seat lesson horses look at me, say OK, I hear you, and then they take care of me, never taking advantage of my mistakes that come from my MS, though I have been gently “cussed out” if I ride badly (harsh contact.) The Arabian horses so far have forgiven me for my faults and they often take care of me when my MS interferes with my ability to ride, so long as I LISTEN to them.
I know that eventually I will end up on an ASB who has slipped through the cracks of life. Could an ASB be likely to understand like an Arabian can? Could they forgive me my faults so long as I am riding as well as I can that day like the Arabians have?
As a side story a lady was boarding at my lesson stable with her absolutely gorgeous ASB gelding. When I asked her what her horse’s breeding was she said ASB. Well I had just been reading Louis Taylor’s books, and I told her she was lucky to have such a horse. She looked at me with mild shock and told me that was the first time she had ever heard that she was lucky to have an ASB at a hunt seat stable. She did not have a saddle so rode him with a bareback pad and her horse accepted her riding faults with good grace. I must admit I was sort of jealous (he was a gorgeous hunk of a horse).
Sorry to derail the thread. I really hope that Honey and her owner end up enjoying each other greatly.
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Yes. I do believe the phrasing was that it was unwise to give out advice to just kick a “rearing” horse forward to a nervous, beginner rider via the internet. Why, exactly, is because usually beginner riders cannot separate their aids. They pull at the same time as when they kick. In addition to the rear, the mounting block situation also seems to be generally unsafe as well.
That triggered the whole magical ASB rearing tangent and how “that’s just the breed”.
It’s really tone deaf considering the numerous times the OP has mentioned 1) wanting the behavior (aka “rearing”) to stop 2) admitting to less than ideal reactions to behavior that could cause things to go bad 3) general frustration 4) avoidance behavior of only riding the horse in a perfect storm of calm in which this horse can’t seem to manage more than some of the time.
I’m glad the OP seems to have found a competent trainer that doesn’t seem to be afraid to tell her that the horse’s behavior makes it unsuitable for her.
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Ahh crap I meant Labs - I misspoke - https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed
And now I’m violating what I just said I wasn’t going to do.
Look - I think that you’re misinterpreting what I’m saying and putting a weird and unique spin on it. And that’s ok - clearly I’m not explaining things well.
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I changed one word because the number of times I have been knocked down by a Labrador Retriever with absolutely no recall and who jumps instead of running over and sitting is far too many. I don’t find it cute when it’s a 55 - 100 pound dog and I most assuredly don’t find it cute when it’s a horse of several hundred pounds that won’t stand to be mounted, pops/rears, bucks, etc. I have owned and ridden a traditionally “hot” breed for decades. I don’t encourage that sort of behavior and in fact, I want them trained to not do it.
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