Some are BRED to be reactive. If you don’t like that, don’t buy that breed.
It’s really easy.
The idea that every horse can be exactly the same through training is just… not true, and tremendously unfair to the animals.
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Again, not what happened.
People warned that “rearing” is a dangerous behavior. People warned to proceed with caution. People warned that it is unwise for a beginner to try to just ride through it; and why.
And people also warned that it is potentially unethical or hard to sell a horse with a “rear” and that training pressure on the horse could bring out a bunch of negative behavior from the horse.
And some people expressed that the “breed tendency” isn’t something they find particularly attractive or suitable for nervous beginners.
And most of that wasn’t really even addressed to the OP.
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No one but yourself is apparently under the impression that calmness turns animals into clones.
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It’s “buy an appropriate animal” day, or “why are you trying to train genetic instinct out” day, actually.
Note that this may ultimately mean that Honey is out of the question for the OP. Or that you will always struggle with an inappropriate dog breed compared to your expectations.
Implying that one can train Honey to be the same as some intrinsically quiet/calm quarterhorse is really doing her, Honey, an injustice. Same concept for the ill-purchased breed of dog.
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And no one but you is apparently under the impression that anything but calm = dangerous.
Nope.
Not at all.
But an animal that has no ability to be calm when necessary can be a danger either to itself or to others.
Calm does not equal comatose.
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I think the tone we’re going to have to agree to disagree on, because if it had been presented like that, it sounds much more reasonable and balanced. Words like “I don’t like that ride” are much different than “never suitable” (to which again I’ll explain that saddleseat riders are not grown on trees nor do they spring magically out of the ground wth bravery).
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In the context of this thread, when people are describing their busybody but not dangerous saddlebreds and getting crapped on, yeah… calm has definitely taken a turn to mean nearly comotose.
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I’m not sure how we got HERE, but most saddlebreds can be completely calm when necessary. It’s just that their calm looks more alert than many other breed of horse. It’s interested, not crazy.
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One.More.Time.
I am speaking neither of specific breeds nor specific species.
And I don’t think most of the people posting on this thread believe that
a) all QH are calm.
b) calmness equates to comatose.
c) the QH is the standard by which all breeds should be judged.
Rather the QH has come up in the context of a breed that might be more likely to meet the OP’s requirements than either an OTTB or a Saddlebred, given her history of feeling overmounted.
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That’s how I read some of those posts too.
But - it is entirely possible that some of the responses were mixing up the situation with Honey and the description of our goofy interested horses. I’ve already read one response that attributed @asbjumper’s post about her horse on the cross ties to Honey (Honey stands quietly on the cross ties with a hanging lip, which is evidence of a calm and relaxed horse). I kind of ignored it, but I do think it’s evidence of the confusion with some thread drift.
Just a little anecdote, we had a drop of 40 degrees in weather yesterday and the herd was outside in their two paddocks. I don’t have them split by breed, there was a QH and a Saddlebred in each paddock because that’s who gets along with each other. Someone was running a chainsaw right behind the house and the whole herd was losing it.
The saddlebreds pranced, but were perfectly safe, just snorty.
I was about to strangle the QHs. One of the QHs I had to utilize the chain on, and the other I had to back up about 30 feet when he tried to rush past me to get inside. I kept thinking wow, if the folks could see us right now they might understand what I’m trying to say. LOL
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And one more time,
My comments are aimed at those who clearly do not understand that a saddlebred is (generally) not going to behave the same as a (general) quarterhorse, and to expect them to is tremendously unfair to the animal.
Can you get that kind of “calm” from an ASB or an arab or [insert hot/reactive breed here]? Probably. Is it fair to the animal? Absolutely not.
Horses for courses. They’re not robots.
Well… this is what some of us were saying all along.
Animals are individuals, and good basic training is important at times when stuff happens, so that people can handle the animal safely.
My guess is the Quarterhorse in question is trained well, but was just having a brainless moment when the chainsaw was going. So you used a chain to keep control over it, and keep things safe.
Good for you. You are a knowledgeable horse person and were able to make that judgement call in that situation, and adjust matters to meet the moment.
Sometimes it’s necessary to keep control over an animal and keep it as calm as possible to accomplish something basic. Like leafing it safely from point A to point B.
Some of us were concerned when reading this thread that the OP is a beginner who is working with a horse who seems to have not been in consistent work or training for years… and sometimes situations like that can be challenging and unsafe.
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If the criteria is 100% outwardly appearing calm, then yes.
If the criteria is safe, then potentially no.
There is a difference between the two, and one that people without a lot of experience with saddlebreds can conflate them, which is all those of us who had them were trying to explain when things got derailed.
Another bit of a note - when people get an OTTB, there’s a lot of knowledge on this board about the former training of the OTTB, and what to do and what not to do with the horse. Loads of “the horse has probably experienced being single tied, maybe don’t cross tie them at first”, etc. etc.
What those of us with saddlebreds were trying to do was to help to communicate the same information. Here’s what the horse likely knows, and was bred to look like and do, here’s what it means, and more importantly here’s what it DOESN’T mean. It has been my experience that behaviors that are really normal for saddlebreds, and in saddlebred barns, cause a very large emotional reaction from sporthorse people who expect them to behave like others.
shrug for that, we caused a large and emotional reaction on the thread, which I find fascinating.
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All of my animals are trained well, except the second saddlebred who has some holes that we’re filling. Much longer story. He STILL behaved perfectly in hand other than some snorts.
The QHs are both well trained, and one was a lesson horse before I got my paws on him. He taught beginners. And was a total utter turd about the situation. But that meets with why the horses were developed. They were developed to be strong in the face of cattle, as well as do things like stand quietly for hours when tied or walk quietly to fix fences. Many of them (not all) can be big huge bullies on the ground. It’s a breed tendency. And no, not all QHs (of course) and not all situations - horses are horses and they all have the capability of throwing their cookies out of the cot.
Absolutely.
And I think concern is wonderful. It just was communicated with what I interpreted to be a large amount of “never” and “must dos”. Not from everyone, of course, and a lot of what I was reacting to wasn’t even replied to by the person I was reacting to but rather someone else who read things further up and applied them as though I was replying to the initial post (how’s that for some confusion). Not abnormal, for COTH, but definitely a bit of a communication difficulty.
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Barring sedation, a horse can not be forced to be calm. It is MORE fair to the horse to train them to be less reactive and less fearful of stimuli. Hot, reactive horses should not be given a pass to be idiots.
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I have owned Arabs for eons, and ridden and been around Saddlebreds for far longer than that.
Amazingly enough, there are a tremendous number of individuals amongst them who are capable of being both animated/“hot” and calm, as the situation requires.
And none of them seemed very discommoded by that.
Not a robot in the bunch.
I did know an NSH with what I’d describe as PTSD, but that was a result of a “trainer” who tried to “jazz” him up.
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I am not saying “let them be an idiot”.
I’m saying the expectation that a ASB can be the same type of dead-head calm as a (general, “good boy”) quarterhorse with more training is a disservice. They are distinctly different breeds, with traits that have been bred into them for generations. Not every waking moment of a horse’s life is a product of their training.
“Calm” for a saddlebred is going to look quite a bit different than for a QH. That’s ok.
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But that looks different than QH calm, that’s the point.
A vizsla is not going to sit in “place” the same way other breeds are, because genetically he’s wired to be with his people and be in on the action. Can you train him to do it? Sure! Is it fair? Questionable. Would it be wiser to start with a better-suited breed, if that’s the behavior you’re looking for? Absolutely.
There’s a thought. Is there any possibility that Honey was sedated when OP tried her out?
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