Because this person has extremely nice ASBs I stalked the insta real quick and pulled a few examples of what is being discussed with ASBs getting light in the front. It’s pretty common and you just ride it forward.
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The sprit and energy these horses exude is so cool. When I was younger and had less health issues I think I would have loved to take a few saddle seat lessons and be around the horses. These days, I am quite content with my s.u.p.e.r. chill fjord 
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Great photos.
Here’s mine pulling a similar stunt with a spin involved because his buddy had decided to bolt across the paddock when another horse chased him, which startled him, I wasn’t quick enough to follow his lurch, and he hit my hand and decided a good rear/leap was a fun thing to do.
In his defense, it was cold, windy, and he hadn’t been worked regularly in 3 months. I probably should have longed him first.
Ignore my right hand, it was prepping to turn him in a circle because he was loaded for a quick uninvited gallop, and I look like a potato riding it. Those riders are MUCH better than my potato butt. When surprised, I revert to bareback GRIP THE THINGS mode. It’s bad and I need to quit it. But it’s a REALLY old habit.
What’s interesting about all of this is that once he came back down to earth (complete with deer snort - because we ALLLL need a little drama) he made sure I was still aboard and we just calmly trotted forward and then finished the ride. There was no additional silliness whereas another horse similarly fired up might have finished the job. I never felt truly insecure, just startled a little. And I’m a seriously chicken rider with PTSD from a bad accident 15 years ago and two surgical hips.
I just bought go-trot.com - I feel like the saddlebred really needs some more promotion 
They are so foreign to sporthorse eyes. I know that my saddleseat rider friends get beat up a lot because of all of the misconceptions about them and the discipline and I just feel so badly because it hurts the breed, ultimately. They are SO much fun, and they take care of their riders beautifully.
Now that I’m outing myself completely, here are a few pics from our second show out. I was 3 months off of hip surgery (where I was off my feet completely for 4 weeks and then in a walker until 3 months) and had only prepped for about a week, and he hadn’t been off the farm in a show environment for about a year, so I scratched the w-t-c class and just did the w-t class sans trainer. Might not have been the best idea, but he clocked around like a champ.
Considering doing that again this year and MAYBE doing the true hunter class if I can get my act together 
I might be able to squeeze into a monarch w-t if not. I’d do academy but I own him, so I’m kind of stuck with the pleasure classes.
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You guys look great!
Sorry-catching up here. @Alterration you can take over anytime. You’re giving such great insight!
I’m not scared away. I was just getting a memorial tattoo of my late dog yesterday and forgot to check in
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For anyone who wants to see said tattoo. Here’s a reference photo
Bringing it back to Honey: for the last few months the trainer has worked with her on Thursdays. I’m off today, so I get to go watch.
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OP isn’t having fun with Honey, doesn’t feel safe and Honey’s breeding is immaterial to the problem at hand. The horse and owner are mismatched.
If the trainer, vet, owner, etc. can pinpoint why Honey rears and put an end to it - great. But if not, then Honey is not for this rider in particular and most riders.
ASBs are nice horses but that doesn’t mean they are any more perfect than any other breed or horse.
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Literally no one is saying that. Those with experience have kindly shared their first hand experiences with the breed noting that they operate differently than what a lot of us are used to. I for one, appreciate the education and have been follow Honey and OPs journey with interest. Things will work out one way or another.
I have a personal bias towards Fjords; that breed is my breed and a perfect breed for ME. It doesn’t mean they (or insert any other breed) are right for everyone.
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@AdultEmmy has stated that it’s more of a prop than a true rear, which puts it right in line with a normal saddlebred behavior when trapped in front. That tells me that it’s not something veterinary, training related (per se) or pain related. It is a riding error most of the time, and sometimes the training methods have to be modified. When I watched the original trainers, I could see that she was a very sensitive mare, and one who looked like a very normal (albeit underconditioned) saddlebred. I could be wrong, of course, but I’ve seen so many of them that it’s not setting off the alarm bells that it would with a different breed of horse.
When I first got my horse, I got this same kind of feedback. I was a chicken re-rider who had PTSD from a bad fall a long time ago (off of a draft cross, of all the breeds/types of horses). My heart raced when I even got on the mounting block with any horse, much less this 5 year old spirited looking gelding who I bought off a video sight unseen (inadvisable, but I’m glad I listened to my intuition and bought him).
I was NOT having fun. The first trainer (an eventer) had him rearing repeatedly and climbing walls. I got talked about just like Adult Emmy is getting talked about. “Too much horse” “You’ll never ride him” “He’s dangerous”. I was gossiped about at the barn. It was a marvelous experience that really did wonders for my confidence (/s) and made me feel great about the horse world.
The thing is, he wasn’t any of those things. What he was was a normal young saddlebred that was shoved rudely into a sporthorse world and that particular trainer tried to get his head down and his back stronger by longing him in a bungee (which he greatly objected to) and using considerably heavier contact than he’d ever had.
When MY confidence grew because I finally surrounded myself with supportive people, he became the partner of a lifetime. I quit putting him with trainers that had him upset and started to really learn what he needed.
But for those first 2 years I thought about selling him many times. Other people were scaring me, not him. And because I was expecting him to be a big scary monster, I was riding him like he was a big scary monster, and the behaviors that I wanted to extinguish were growing because I was riding like that. It was horrible. I fretted about it a lot.
Once I was exposed more to saddlebreds and learned that his “scary” behaviors were NBD, I was able to re-center myself, adjust, and other than his little prop the other month, we haven’t had any issues. I’ve thrown a rope off of him, dragged logs, done obstacles, trail ridden, jumped, shown with zero prep, done dressage, I mean - literally anything you ask this horse to do he does with a smile. My heart no longer races when I get on the mounting block and I look forward to riding him.
No - but they are SADLY misunderstood because they are very different. And it’s experiences and bias like I see demonstrated on this and other threads that cause that misunderstanding to blossom.
They aren’t my sole choice of breed. I’ve had many other breeds and types of horses - I have two QH-types in my pasture now as well as my two saddlebreds. And I love my QH types as well, and to COTH they’d be very much more acceptable in their behavior because they are used to them.
However, I will say that the QH tendency (again, not all of them) is to quietly take offense, add up those offenses, and explode later whereas the saddlebreds let you know they are upset with much drama so that you can adjust quickly. Saddlebreds do not tend to break in half bucking after feeling relaxed, unlike some paints I’ve owned in the past. They do not tend launch you with ZERO warning, like a warmblood gelding I owned (he balked, I applied leg, and suddenly I was flying through the air). If something really bad happens, you’ve generally missed about 34 warnings that they are screaming at you.
They do often have a goofy little prop and rear. That’s their normal evasion. Some will head flip so that you can see their foreheads, similar to arabians.
Saddlebreds aren’t for everyone of course, all horses have their fans — but for sensitive, kind, thinking riders they make wonderful mounts in a variety of disciplines.
If @AdultEmmy decides eventually that she isn’t for her that’s ok too, literally zero judgement - I’d just hate to have her lose a potential wonderful partner after all the non-horse-related loss that she has recently suffered because of a very normal behavior (for the breed) that has become catastrophized because of a thread on COTH.
She’s had a rough go in the horse world too. She has already sold on one horse (2022) and then all the life stuff happened, and the COTH thread was really unkind. My heart just broke for wha she was being subjected to.
@AdultEmmy needs supportive people around her, a good learning plan for riding, and confidence. Lessons on similarly feeling horses will help. A trainer who understands saddlebreds specifically will help. She’s a strong woman, and I know she’ll do the right thing ultimately!
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Loving the pictures and stories, @Alterration (and the drag queen comparison is the best!)! It’s bringing up a cherished memory from an amazing summer job I had a million years ago, leading trail rides in the Green Mountains of Vermont. The guy that ran the place was always picking up horses at auction, and he knew that I rode jumpers at home, so one day he says “hey, I picked up a horse you’ll like! It’s an ENGLISH horse and came with an English saddle!” The horse was a drop-dead gorgeous, tall, palomino (be still, my teenage heart) Saddlebred – and the “English saddle” was a cutback saddle. I had never seen that type of saddle OR horse in my life! The horse came in in great condition, so I’m pretty sure he had been a show horse until recently. The first time I got on, it felt SO different from my previous rides on TBs, QHs, various WB & grade horses – but MAN, that horse was a BLAST. It’s only in retrospect that I realize that this horse had probably never been outside a show barn, then one day was expected to lead trail rides through the mountains – I was a dumb teenager so didn’t question it, and he was a rock star who never put a foot wrong. I only rode that horse for about 2 months but he ranks as one of the more influential horses in my life – he taught me that I actually LIKE hot and forward horses; that hot and forward doesn’t mean scary. Phenomenal brain, beautiful as the day is long, and a total love.
(A funny detail about the whole experience – the guy who ran the trail ride place was a very rural Vermonter who had such a thick accent I had a hard time understanding him sometimes. When I asked if the horse had a name, he said “Yeah – it’s Fannalight”. WTF? I asked again, he said “It’s FANNALITE”. Like, is that a word? Once more – “Dammit, the horse’s name is FANNILIGHT”. I called him Pal. Still have no freaking idea what his real name was.)
@AdultEmmy – you seem like a very kind and empathetic soul and I’m sorry that life has kicked you in the teeth recently. Whatever you decide about Honey, I’m sure you will get input from knowledgeable people who know both of you and how you work together. Whatever happens, her life is better since you came into it. Wishing you all the best!
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What a lovely tattoo and great work! <3 I’ve thought about getting one eventually for the dogs I’ve had but can’t decide on a design. There are too many of them in my lifetime (since I was a kid we’ve always had 3 dogs at a time) to tattoo myself otherwise I might not have any skin left!
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Do you know what year (roughly) it was? Could it be something with Phantom? (not me going to ASHBA to do a horse search LOL)
I want a palomino Saddlebred someday. How could you not love a Barbie horse that looks like this - https://preview.redd.it/martingale-and-breastplate-addition-v0-n2mv6s9r8a5c1.jpg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2ad858b56f33ee9751a341ce3aa26cdcc0d6a05 (not my photo)
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A friend of mine had a Saddlebred gelding that likely should have been a jumper. One show she was at he spooked at something and leapt so high in the air that she was looking way down at the people standing at the rail.
Her last show mare was so laid back, showing outside at one show in the afternoon, she was lucky to make the Championship class. Fortunately the mare lit up when showing indoors where the Championship class was held. Nobody showing there that night had a chance to beat her. Lovely mare, big and black with a ton of presence when showing indoors.
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Although - holy crap - I just literally found a Fantalite. That horse was born in 1958 and is listed as a chestnut mare, but lots of times they have lost their pedigrees through time or a name gets repurposed.
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OMG – If Phantom is an SB name, you may have solved a 40 year mystery!! Maybe Phantom Light? This would have been early 1980’s. (If you knew how often that horse’s name has popped into my head at 3 am when I can’t sleep…!!).
“Pal” looked a LOT like that Barbie horse – a lighter coat, but a Barbie horse none the less. LOVED him.
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I hope all goes well! You’ve done well so far and I’d love to see you succeed, and at least get Honey to be a good member of society, be it with you or another owner. Please let us know how it goes.
PS. Love your tattoo!
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There is a reason why just about every beginner rider and horse owner wants a dead broke, “bombproof”, non-reactive, no spook, no buck, no rear/popping up, no quirks, never puts a foot wrong, deadhead horse that does all “the things” without a fuss. It’s because a horse that has any of those things is likely to get the beginner hurt, intentionally or not.
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Many years ago I had a client with a palomino ASB who showed in the parade class–he had the whole getup with the silver dripping off it.
It was a beautiful sight.
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Loads of Phantoms in the DB with varying subnames and prefixes. I’ll keep looking - sounds like the horse would probably have been foaled in the 60s or 70s to be hitting a trail outfit in the 80s. We’ll find him if he was registered
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Fantalite!!! Definitely not a chestnut mare, and I don’t think he was in his 20’s, but maybe a repurposed name…?
Well, one mystery possibly down… if you happen to know where I lost my favourite pair of boots somewhere in Vancouver in the 1990’s, that would be awesome information as well!!
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Of course.
It’s also equally easy for a new rider to make a horse have these problems even when they haven’t had them before.
I’ll give you an example. I own a QH that is DEAD BROKE. I mean dead dead dead broke. Quiet. Slow AF. Nonreactive. Shown across the country. I can get on him after he hasn’t been ridden in months and he’ll maybe pin his ears and swish his tail being slightly grumpy to be disturbed from his retirement.
I made the mistake of leasing him off property to an older lady under the guidance of a trainer I’d been with. I got a bizarre message that he was too much horse for her. I couldn’t figure out what that even meant. He’d be not enough horse for my (now deceased) grandmother. I went to troubleshoot and found that with this lady, her nerves were sending him right up the wall. This is a horse that I can put literally anyone on. But for whatever reason, she was so frightened of all horses that he was dancing on the cross ties, striking out, and flipping his head all over at the trot. I spoke to my former (very nice) trainer who was like, yeah…it’s not him. She needs to learn to ride and be around horses and she needs confidence in herself.
There isn’t a horse alive who isn’t going to have SOME evasion. They aren’t robots. Even the $200k+ childrens hunters that I have ridden have some quirks (not to mention ponies, which is how many people learn to ride).
For adults what I have discovered is that it’s a mental game. Yes, you have to set them up for success, which is why a neckstrap and other modifications would be useful, but you also have to give them confidence in themselves. Women in particular often learn to not take up space, to be simultaneously too loud and too timid with horses. We need help getting outside ourselves and getting the confidence and drive to ride well.
If Honey were a different horse, I’d be in 100% agreement, but that’s not what I have seen from the videos, description, and what I know of these horses.
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