Honey the ASB update and progress thread!

[OnAMission]

What happened to her that she ended up in poor condition when you got her? It seems like you mentioned finding out some about her past. As I recall (without scrolling back up) from her young pictures she looked good but something must have happened to her between then and you. Maybe you mentioned this and I’m just not remembering…

Is she continuing to eat better? She looks much happier and healthier to me under your care but her weight seems to be coming up very slowly when I look back to the beginning of July. IME/IMO, which isn’t the end all/be all by any means. I know you’re doing the best you can for her and that she shouldn’t bulk up too quickly but I’d be tempted to up the feed, remember to do those carrot stretches, etc. I couldn’t sit on her right now in good conscience; her spine is too exposed.

[fivestrideline]

I agree that maybe Honey shouldn’t be ridden. I have been quiet in my opinions because OP is really doing so well, and pictures can be deceiving. I also have no experience with these types of horses, just a ton with TBs. But the pics from the show are concerning. That “shelf” between the spine and ribs means this horse isn’t just lean, or the saddlebred type dippy back with no muscle. This horse is THIN.

Please OP, keep working with her. Keep doing the best for her, but keep people off of her back. Even a very lightweight child at this point would be too much for her back right now.

I think that sometimes we stare at a horse or have a barn full of similar horses and we lose sight of how our animals really appear. For comparison, here is my 0 muscle absolutely unfit OTTB who has been standing in a pasture for months doing nothing (and doing nothing before that). He is heading into the handwalking stage of going back to work.

I would be much more comfortable sitting on a horse that looks like him vs one with very little muscle or body fat.

[Angela_Freda]

@OnAMission

I’d be tempted to up the feed,

I’d probably consider adding an additional feeding, rather than increase the amount of the meals she’s currently getting.
But there are many roads to Rome, and Coth members have a wealth of knowledge to help the OP and Honey .

[fivestrideline]

OP have you been following the Matilda thread? That has been a lovely education in refeeding a dramatically underweight horse. I know she’s kept at home vs boarded, which makes a huge difference, but still.

We are all rooting for you OP, and for Honey, don’t take this advice the wrong way!

[AdultEmmy]

I thought about not posting that picture, because of the shadow. Yes, shadow.

It’s a shadow. Here’s 2 days before.

I’m fine with people offering their opinions, but I simply won’t stand for someone saying that something I’m doing for Honey is cruel. That horse gets everything she needs and is gaining weight beautifully.

As a reminder, she hasn’t been with me for 90 days yet. She gets hygain showtorque, gets grass in the pasture, gets her soup and lots of alfalfa pellets, gets fat cat and farrier formula, gets more hay than she knows what to do with, and had been ridden a handful of times. Mostly, we walk over poles or do lunging or ground work. None of those with a saddle.

I’d love to know what happened between those early pics and when I got her. What I do know was she had her feed changed all the time and other horses would steal it. She was largely ignored and lost a lot of weight.

I’ll say it again: I appreciate peoples help. I can take opinions and value the wisdom. But I won’t stand for someone saying anything I’m doing with Honey is cruel. That’s where you cross the line. It’s a shadow, she’s gaining weight beautifully, she’s happy and getting healthy, and the people who see her day in and out, including professionals and vets, have approved us for what we’re doing now.

I’ll look into trying a feed bag. Thanks for that tip.

[AdultEmmy]

[endlessclimb]

I’m on the flip side of everyone else’s opinions here. Walking and a little trotting under saddle, presuming Honey is not objecting and from the photos she isn’t (tail carriage, eyes, ears, etc), will only HELP her weight gain.

[Scribbler]

Some horses need exercise to build topline. I gather the OP is riding very lightly with the aim of overcoming some big behavior issues, and is having success with this. Light riding is not going to hurt the horse if her saddle pads and saddle take account of her topline.

[endlessclimb]

I’d also like to point out that Honey always has that “red alert” headset, and folks here keep saying “oh she’s posing” and other cutesy stuff that have encouraged the OP to keep taking pictures of her in that hyper alert body stance.

Well, what does “head up” do? It accentuates the dip in front of the withers, and makes the back hollow. The OP snaps a photo of her like this and everyone says “she’s too skinny look at her back!11!!”

OP, get her head level and watch the “shelf” everyone is kvetching about completely disappear. MAGIC.

[lenapesadie]

I seriously doubt that OP toodling about at the walk with a few steps of trot as per the attending vet’s guidance counts as cruelty.

[ThreeWishes]

Yep not seeing cruelty whatsoever. Refeeding… hell FEEDING horses is rarely black and white. Yes there are guidelines and recommendations. OP is doing a fine job. Walking around is not cruel.

Starving a horse is cruel. Neglecting a horse is cruel. Jaminey…. Over feeding a horse is cruel. Please don’t pick at the OP because this horse isn’t following a guideline you’re familiar with.

[Maria]

I see the same thing in the in the following photos as the shadow photo.

It really is a shame that voicing concern gets ones hands slapped.

[SillyHorse]

There’s a big area between cruelty and not doing what’s best for a horse. I don’t think anyone is accusing the OP of cruelty. There are quite a few of us, however, people with lots of experience with horses and bringing malnourished horses back to condition, who believe that the OP is not doing what’s best for this mare. I know she doesn’t want to hear it and it’s unlikely that she will modify her program for the horse.

[endlessclimb]

Or maybe she will follow her vets advice?

What an outrageous thing to say.

[fivestrideline]

I see the shelf in ALL of these photos.

That said, cruel is a harsh word. Unfair is better.

Everyone has been raving about how ASBs are so eager to please and so willing to do what is asked - I would guess they’re very willing to push through discomfort that a less forgiving type would say eff off! As such, it would be wise to be extra careful with Honey and go slow.

I’ll throw myself under the bus here and say that I’ve gotten tons of advice to stay off the gelding I posted above, handwalk for MONTHS, no trot, no lunging, etc etc - so I find it interesting that people want someone riding this horse in this condition. I don’t argue that horses must work to put on muscle - but I would hesitate to put a full fledged adult on this horse. A very small, lightweight, but balanced person/child for a few minutes in a perfectly fitted saddle…. Maybe.

What’s the harm in groundwork and food?

[lenapesadie]

Well post 532 does specify cruel

[Angela_Freda]

@endlessclimb

Or maybe she will follow her vets advice?

I mean, sure, but did we ever consider that not all vets are created equally?

I’m not saying her vet is bad.
I’m saying we don’t know.
And this mare doesn’t look great, and progress us quite slow, even to those who know progress in these cases can be excruciatingly slow.

If we shouldn’t discount the vet, who we don’t know from Adam, why are dismissing the comments of COTH members we do have a good read on, who have shown that they are knowledgeable?

[SoCoPony]

[Maria]

Question:

How much of each food source is Honey receiving? An example of what I am asking:

2 quarts or 2 pounds of commercial grain 2 times per day
3 quarts or 4 pounds of alfalfa pellets 1 time per day
10 pounds of Timothy, Orchard, Coastal, Alfalfa hay per day

etc and so forth…

Please name the brand of food source.

[lenapesadie]

Your horse is coming back from a lameness / injury if I recall correctly. And you presently don’t have access to any flat spaces to ride in?

OP’s horse is supposedly sound afaik and has an arena to ride in.