Honey the ASB update and progress thread!

[Alterration]

They don’t have to do anything! If advice [quote=“lazaret, post:739, topic:786908, full:true”]
How can we educate someone who is refusing to share what the current program (which doesn’t appear to be working) actually is so that people can educate about where their experience suggests something can change?

Every suggestion has been met with “I’m already doing that” (or some variation of that which isn’t actually the same thing) so what exactly is anyone supposed to do here?

The tough love starts when someone isn’t receptive.

Nobody expected the horse to be obese in 90 days. But some change should be evident, no founder required.
[/quote]

I think tough love is BS. There’s a reason it doesn’t work.

But - she gladly told me what she was feeding, I had no problems talking to her about it. Because she knew I wasn’t going to tear her apart.

I think that’s probably evidence of a lack of trust in the board’s intentions, and when I read the posts it is obvious as to why.

[Fiesta01]

@Alterration

The words were rather empty.

Really? How do you know this? Words are words. It was an apology. Only the poster who said these words knows their true feelings behind them.

Life must be so much easier being clairvoyant and knowing exactly how someone else feels behind their words. (Yes, I am being snarky). Give people some credit for meaning what they say and accept an apology for an apology. If their future words/actions belie the apology, then feel free to call them out on it.

[Sparrowette]

@Jackie_Cochran

Many many years ago I had brought back two mares who were in worse shape than Honey.

It took TIME. It took a lot of patient riding at the walk at first, A LOT OF WALKING.

It took a lot of grain–oats, corn, and alfalfa pellets for the one I owned. The one I did not own, the barn owner upped her feed situation as the mare got better.

These were literally throw away horses who lucked out by ending up being owned by people who were willing to go out of their way to help them.

It took TIME. A LOT OF TIME.

IF I had tried to fatten up either mare in 90 days the mares would have foundered. If I had tried to feed either mare enough to build a “satisfactory” top line in 90 days the mares would have foundered (note that the blacksmith said Honey’s hooves showed signs of previous foundering.)

The improvements first show up in the horse’s eyes, at the point that the horse is convinced that she was not going to starve to death with the mare I owned. After the eye change it still took TIME. And the mares I had this experience with were Arabians, and I imagine it would have taken a lot more TIME to get an ASB with a decent coating on her ribs and more muscle on her back.

My fear is that the next person with this problem will read the whole thread here and end up foundering their poor horse because people on-line want instant changes, like overnight, presto, miracle, look what I did! type of thing.

It takes TIME to bring a horse back from near starvation, and lots and lots of good feed over MONTHS, many MONTHS, not just 90 days.

You tell him, Jackie!

[Alterration]

Because changing the word cruel to unkind changed the meaning of the statement not at all?

I can’t believe I have to point out that those are synonyms…from the thesaurus.

[Fiesta01]

I don’t feel called out in the slightest. I’m a very self-reflective person. I know exactly when I don’t handle a situation well. Being a person of conscience, I always then feel guilty about it and step in to apologize/make amends. I stand by everything I’ve contributed to this thread.

But thanks for allowing me to leave the thread if/when I find it distasteful.

[Djones]

I have been quite kind to the OP. read every single comment I’ve made and tell me differently.

In February of this year, the dark TWH I posted photos of in this thread came down with something. I think it was EPM but the test during his acute phase was negative and I didn’t know that protocol was to retest in 14 days and apparently neither did my vet. My previously robust, healthy, well managed horse of 17 years looked like shit. He looked about like Honey does now. I have no photos, but he lost his top line, his lovely neck, he was ribby, and I was ,mortified** He was also unsteady on his feet for about 36 hours while i poured Bute to him per the vet.then. he was more stable, and I poured the fuel to him.

We got him "Past’ whatever that was…and it took less than 90 days to get his weight back up and his beautiful body back, albeit with a lesser neck and hip because i wasn’t working or riding him to require a good posture.

Wait…did I mention he’s on 24/7 turnout, has allergies, and he’s 21 years old?

I am not ashamed by anything I’ve written to the op, because save for ONE WORD that I’ve since apologized for, I’ve been unfailingly KIND and CONSIDERATE to her.

If you disagree, that’s your opinion. I want the best for the horse and for her.

Good night.

[Fiesta01]

@Djones

I am not ashamed by anything I’ve written to the op, because save for ONE WORD that I’ve since apologized for, I’ve been unfailingly KIND and CONSIDERATE to her.

If you disagree, that’s your opinion. I want the best for the horse and for her.

Good night.

Well said, and good night to everyone from me also.

[ThreeWishes]

This isn’t about your lovely horse or your journey.
That’s my point.

No matter what posters debate against each other. Chasing away the OP helps NO ONE
Seriously. The pile on is gross. Y’all just want to be RIGHT. yes you’re right. You’re right. You’re right. Just step back and educate. And sorry your push to be RIGHT is not kind. It’s just right. And now she’s gone. But at least y’all feel right.

[Djones]

I’m sorry you feel that way.

[Djones]

@AdultEmmy

The word cruel has been redacted. I really don’t want to see anymore going after one another due to that word. Moving on.

@Alterration, for your consideration.

[ThreeWishes]

And I’ll show you my rehab of a starved horse. I won’t disagree the need for education. I will say the delivery was not conducive to change.

[Djones]

@ThreeWishes if my horse is irrelevant, how is yours relevant?

[ThreeWishes]

I just post it to show I understand. Not to Shame.

[Maria]

Ok here you go, I am not an expert on re-feeding horses, but I will take a stab at it.

I would worm Honey.
I would have her teeth checked by an equine dentist.
I would consult a equine nutritionist
Guessing around the equine nutritionist, I would put Honey on some type of senior feed. Triple crown senior I personally like. She would get 3 or 4 smaller meals per day, 1 1/2 to 2 lbs each. She would get 3 to 4 servings of hay, I forget, is it 1% to 2% of their body weight per day. The alfalfa pellets are good and I would possibly add some hay stretcher. She would have a readily available salt block,

I would run a complete blood panel to get a baseline and check organ function.

She would have access to pasture with nice forage, but would come inside to eat in peace.

I would also soak all her grain stuffs

I would want radiographs of her feet to determine their structure. If she has foundered in the past, I would adjust to feed to address that issue.

I would do all of the above and more with the help of a vet, a nutritionist and a farrier.

I know I have probably left some very important aspects out of the above and maybe I am way off base, but I hope if I am, you guys will tell me about it so I can learn.

[Unfforgettable]

Here’s a horse I owned years ago. He fell on hard times several years after I sold him, and I found him and brought him home, at age 24. While he was unrideable due to a surgically fused pastern as well as dealing with DSLD, he was very thin when he came back to me. A thorough vet exam, bloodwork and teeth done made all the difference in the world, along with free choice hay as well as pasture, and gradually increasing amounts of Purina Strategy.
The photos span just over thirty days.

The first two are August 23.

This is August 31.

September 6:

September 26.

He was a happy and healthy horse for the next three years, before his arthritis got too bad and I had to put him down.

This is him in his show days with me:

[Ambitious_Kate]

@Alterration

She is trying to learn, an

Trying to learn what? How to feed her horse? If she’s only getting whatever the barn manager directs she gets, a flake in the morning and at night, whatever is in the soup, and not getting a midday feed if the owner isn’t going to go out there extra, and the horse is turned out now, that explains why she isn’t gaining weight.

Plenty of horses with arthritis and training issues and years of neglect gain significsnt weight on a program with unlimited quality hay and good feed. I’m not sure what you are offering a defense for. The horse needs attention, and asking here for advice ensures she gets it because invaluable advice is available here.

Why is the OP unwilling to discuss the amounts of feed she is giving the horse?

[SpicyPRE]

@Ambitious_Kate

Why is the OP unwilling to discuss the amounts of feed she is giving the horse?

This is what I dont understand either. If there is an issue with boarding facility capping what they will feed, the collective knowledge of this group can help figure out other ways of getting food into Honey.

Things went south here between the cheerleaders and the non-cheerleaders. Things are not rainbows and unicorns with Honey and the non-cheerleaders want the best for her and the OP.

One thing we can all agree on in the horseworld is that we all have opinions and rarely do they align. A valuable lesson for the OP. If you come to a horse forum and ask for help, you will get it.

[Angela_Freda]

@Alterration

@Sdel

You missed the commentary where the farrier was asking if the horse had previously foundered based on what they were seeing in the feet.

Why didn’t the vet catch that? Why wasn’t it addressed at PPE and cleared via X-rays?

OP is a beginner - I wouldn’t expect her to catch it.

Who said she should have?

As a beginner, she should employ those to guide her who will catch it.
She needs to raise her awareness of
“I don’t know what I don’t know”

And if the same vet who suggests riding this horse is the one who missed the feet… That’s a clue. A big one.

[Angela_Freda]

@Alterration

That’s really not much of an apology - but ok.

The OP, gracefully, accepted it.
Why not you?

[Angela_Freda]

@Maria

Ok here you go, I am not an expert on re-feeding horses, but I will take a stab at it.

I would worm Honey.
I would have her teeth checked by an equine dentist.
again, A second time… because she may be older, the initial float may have missed something or cracked a tooth, or caused an abscess, etc
I would consult a equine nutritionist
Guessing around the equine nutritionist, I would put Honey on some type of senior feed. Triple crown senior I personally like. She would get 3 or 4 smaller meals per day, 1 1/2 to 2 lbs each. She would get 3 to 4 servings of hay, I forget, is it 1% to 2% of their body weight per day. The alfalfa pellets are good and I would possibly add some hay stretcher. She would have a readily available salt block,

I would run a complete blood panel to get a baseline and check organ function.

She would have access to pasture with nice forage, but would come inside to eat in peace.

I would also soak all her grain stuffs

I would want radiographs of her feet to determine their structure. If she has foundered in the past, I would adjust to feed to address that issue.

I would do all of the above and more with the help of a vet, a nutritionist and a farrier.

I know I have probably left some very important aspects out of the above and maybe I am way off base, but I hope if I am, you guys will tell me about it so I can learn.

My only addition in bold