Honey the ASB update and progress thread!

Just a thought about working with horses in general -

Yes, it’s absolutely normal for horses to have “off” days. In general, you’ll make more progress, quicker, if you are flexible with your training plans as needed.

I know your goal was to work on the mounting, but sometimes it’s a good idea to adjust our goals to be in line with what the horse needs on any given day. It sounds like she was telling you pretty early on with her inattentiveness that she wasn’t in the right mindset to stand at the mounting block yet. Personally, if I can’t keep a horse’s attention on the ground, I’m not going to try to mount. Not that I’m saying I’d stop and put her away! I’d probably do what you ended up doing - lunge her until she’s focusing on work, then ask for a lesser task at the block (or go ahead and mount, if she’s sufficiently back in work mode). Or, if she’s still silly when we approached the block again, my adjusted goal for that session might simply be to get her to stand quietly at the block. And if it was a real challenge to get her to stand at the block, I might set up poles or cones or other obstacles around the block to work her through until the block becomes just another obstacle that you’re asking her to do something with (in this case, stand quietly while you push on the stirrup).

Ultimately, I think you handled it exactly right. And if she was standing still at the end while you pushed on the stirrup, then IMO, it was a successful training session. Sometimes horses have bad days but as long as you ultimately convince her to do something - even a tiny thing - that she wasn’t able or willing to do at the start, you’re making progress. Even if that thing is different from what you originally planned.

The more you show yourself capable of calmly working through bad moments (albeit with adjusted goals as necessary), generally the fewer she will have.

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One more thought, then I’m done. :grin:

When horses are first backed during their early training, the first couple of rides are usually pretty uneventful. It’s the third or fourth ride that is more likely to get exciting, as the horse gets familiar with having a rider on and starts to form an opinion about it.

Both you and Honey know what you’re doing, but don’t be surprised if she does a new thing well several times before her behavior changes and she suddenly becomes less cooperative.

That’s absolutely normal behavior. If you handle it calmly and tactfully, you’ll usually get through it quickly and with minimal drama. And as you get to know each other and she builds confidence in you, there will be fewer of those occasions and they’ll be more quickly and easily resolved.

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Thank you. I appreciate your insight so much. Yeah, I tried to pivot but was kind of hanging on to our learning being linear, which I know it never is but was having a hard time with it yesterday.

I had a few seltzers, I rested, and it’s a new day. I think both of us were off yesterday.

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I would totally agree with what others have posted–that horses have “off” days, that they tend to start offering their (sometimes negative) opinions when they understand that this whole riding gig is part of the long term plan, and that horses pick up on the energy around them including your energy and that of the other horses around them. A busy barn makes for a busy horse, at least until the horse becomes acclimated.

Don’t stress about that. Just be calm, be focused but soft, and be reasonable. It was great that you ended with something that you knew she could easily do so that you could end on a good note.

All that said, it’s possible that she was responding to the changes in the saddle that you’d made. Maybe the changes had made it more uncomfortable for her, or the saddle was suddenly pressing on a sore or sensitive area, or the placement of the shim was causing more pressure on the points of the saddle. At any rate, maybe saddle fit issues were part of what was going on.

Good luck! She’s a beautiful horse!

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Thanks so much! She’s a mega cutie :blush:

It’s definitely possible those things were the factors. I know I’m overthinking things but my last horse had my number. I wasn’t firm in rules/boundaries until it became too late. So now I’m just overthinking my every move, lol

I’m thinking tonight we will do the “training ride” (very loose term. Not sure how much riding will be done) and then I think tomorrow my plan (which can change and I need to be ok with that) will be to go back to what we were doing, the whole routine, and not mount. Maybe I won’t even fully tack and we will do it with just a rope halter. I guess we’ll see.

Open to suggestions, as always :blush:

Agree with this. It sounds like she was doing well at the mounting block before you changed the saddle fit. I really recommend getting out an independent saddle fitter to take a look and advise you on saddle fit.

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That was my first thought - I would have removed the shims or whatever and put everything back on the saddle the way it was previously, and then evaluated her anxiety. It’s possible you would have had her back where you were prior. It’s always a red flag to me when you make a change and immediately have a different horse.

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HA! Three votes for saddle fit!!

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Make it 4, because I was going to reply if the other three hadn’t — and I am replying because I see two ways to go forward: it is possible that issues were mood and busy barn so OP could keep the saddle as it is and try it one more time at a quiet time when she feels herself in a good mood. Then if Honey is still unhappy switch back to the original configuration and see if that solves the problem. Or go back to the way the saddle was immediately, but in that case it may be hard to rule out the other factors.

We have certainly read plenty of accounts here from people who “improved“ their saddle fit only to find their horses hated it. But horses also have off days just like we do.

Disclaimer, I have minimal real experience with horses compared to the majority here, but I do respect the scientific method & changing one variable at a time!

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I was thinking along the same lines.
Change can be scary.

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I’ve found the concept of trigger stacking to be really useful with horses. OP, think about one of those days when work sucked and you also got stuck in traffic on the way home and then you took out the chicken to make dinner and realized it had gone bad and then your dog made a mess in the house and then you have a meltdown. You can usually deal with any one of those things but when they all pile up, one simple thing can be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

With horses, the equivalent is when something bothers your horse a little on normal days but not enough to set them off (say, mounting), and then you add some other triggers like a busy barn or your mood or high winds or snow falling off the roof or whatever. Suddenly something you didn’t think was an issue because they normally handle it well can be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

The way I apply this is just to be more aware of negative stimuli that could pile up, and take it slower if there’s more than one present. Also be patient if something your horse is normally okay with suddenly sets them off, because it’s likely there are some other triggers contributing (i.e., they’re not just deciding to be a jerk today).

That said, I’d get fit checked by an independent fitter too.

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Thanks guys! Definitely could be. I should know by now not to just assume that better saddle fit by my standards doesn’t mean better by hers. I’ll take a look and test some stuff

No worries here, nothing unusual. She’s feeling better, more confident and is not keeping her focus on you…and shes trying to change the subject, something she has, apparently, been successful with. Nothing tragic going on here, if she wanted to hurt you, she would not tell you shes not interested in a training ride. No, she’d stand stock still until you were in the air swinging over then bolt and/or drop the right shoulder with a wicked right spin right out from under you. That’s not her way.

Think you got two things main things going on. Schooling area environment and the female reproductive cycle.

First off, many have found keeping track of daily activities priceless in tracking overall attitude and behavior in new horses. Just a few lines on a calendar/planner can really help. Helps to do it in writing on an actual calendar so you can can lay it out and easily see patterns and trends.

Include time you worked, where you worked, weather, alone or with others and your own mental and physical state- tired, too much caffeine, upset, worried. Horses read us and react accordingly. You likely were frustrated at her 2 steps back behavior…and she read you like she learned to read other riders. Always stay chill. No matter what.

For example, yesterday might be “5pm, hot, bad day at work, busy ring, horse unfocused, uncooperative. Personally would circle the date and watch what she does in 21days. Physically their cycle is not like ours but the effects can be similar, including moodiness and discomfort. IIRC there are stallions on the property? Her attention may have been elsewhere.

You might be interested in journaling, if so do it in addition to the calendar for concise and quick overall look not instead of.

OK, back to yesterday. You learned she is not yet confirmed at the mounting block and you, inadvertently, asked too much of her too soon, make a note, learn from it, try to read the signs earlier and avoid a repeat. Thats how IRL horse training works. She learned too, you ended on a positive.

Couple of things to keep in mind here…pay attention to your barns feeding schedule and her mealtimes. Right now she’s pretty food motivated, might try to avoid adding new challenges, like the busy ring, at a meal time. For now, until she masters each lesson. Stick to what shes good at.

Likewise working around more distractions like more horses, heavy equipment, spooky weather, if she’ obviously having a bad day or You are having a bad day. Pick something you are both good at and keep it short.

In other words set yourself and the horse up for success. Don’t set yourself up to fail, KISS.

All this said, you cannot avoid progress by never challenging her (that’s where many NH programs fail), but slow, consistent progress over time is the way to go. Do not hesitate to involve your trainer, thats their job. You have another job that restricts the time you can put in.

Remember, horses don’t know when they are officially being “trained”, don’t care either. So EVERY time you touch them, they are learning from you-whether you want them to or not. .Older horses learn a ton of things from us we did not intend to teach them. In Honeys case, its that if rider does not get on or gets scared/ frustrated in the process? Shes in control. She learned that. So make sure to set her up to succeed at the mounting block so she can unlearn it…

Finally, like here on COTH, everybody in your barn has an opinion. Learn to sift through the BS and stuck to experienced based opinions. Don’t let the railbirds and barn gossip mongers derail you. Stay on track, you will get there.

ETA…thinking about all this, was fooling with saddle fit with barn mates before taking a horse with known mounting issues into a busy ring setting up for success? Think about it.

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This is really good, thank you.

I had best intentions, I assure you. I just wanted to work with the saddle before tacking and all that, but I see my errors now. I’ll add though that the ring I worked her in wasn’t the busy one. It’s the same one we always are in. But yes, in the paddock on one side was a stallion, then the door was open and right outside is the outdoor ring, where 4 people were riding. So noise around, for sure.

Thank you for the journaling and other recommendations. I knew it wouldn’t be like “voila, mounting block is fixed” but I think I should have assessed myself first to see if I was really willing and capable of dealing with it calmly if things didn’t go perfectly. I didn’t lose my cool at all, but I definitely could have approached yesterday better.

Thank you for your continued support on this and my work with her! 🩵

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Trigger stacking. Really like that expression. And the examples. Very helpful way of thinking.

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Ooh! My Equiband arrived! Now I’m revising tomorrows “plan” in my head. I’m thinking of just lunging with the Equiband, no saddle. Then maybe just practice lining up to the mounting block and my little stepladder. And being still. That sounds like a fun day!

I love equiband - it was a great tool for my OTTB. Just remember to go easy with it - its a lot more work for the horse. I always warmed up first, and then attached the band.

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Ive seen some advice that is being given that is straight from Warwick Schiller without calling it out (ex rabbits/trigger stacking). Its great advice and I would recommend reading his new book called The Principles of Training. Its an easy read and everything he talks about is in reach and great to keep in mind when you work with any horse, especially a new one!

I got my gelding as a 3 YO and didn’t know what to expect with him being a youngster (he’s 6 now). With any horse, you will have good days and bad days. Rides that would have been PERFECT if it wasn’t for justonething. You will have a good day and your horse will be having a bad one; your horse will have a good day when your day is bad (sometimes the horsey good days turn the people bad ones around :slight_smile: ).

I think working with the horse you have today was also mentioned, another very valuable WS principle. Most days, I have a very loose idea of what I am going to do and sometimes we do that, and sometimes we totally change gears depending on what my horse is giving me (or not giving me) that day.

You will have people tell you this and tell you that. Trust your gut and your process but be open minded enough to ask for help if you think you need it. Don’t hold yourself to a timeline. Dont compare yourself with others. Do keep a log of things. Do ENJOY the process, the journey, and the relationship with you will have with Honey because that’s what it’s about!

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Or 5+ . It could be the adjustment isn’t comfortable? Go back to what worked and see what happens.

You need to remember also that she is now getting good food and plenty of it and that her energy level will increase. Even if she is on pasture / turnout that doesn’t mean she will exercise herself and be ready to just hop on and focus on you.

I learned something from an online trainer who’s videos I like to watch. He said ( something to the effect) that you may have training goals for the day but your horse may present you with a whole new direction and you work on what they give you.

My mindset is “ok horse, lets see what we have today” and I go from there. It may be a better day than I planned and it may be something we did weeks ago but we have a good day because we are working together.

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That was going to be what I was going to say. My gelding came to me having sat in a field for 8+ months and 200+ pounds underweight. He’s up to 5 quarts of Strategy GX/day along with lots of hay and Purina Amplify and, low and behold, he’s starting to feel a lot perkier. There’s definitely some attitude popping up. Nothing serious, but he’s not as compliant as he was when he arrived.

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