Thank you. I really am enjoying this process with her
Thank you guys. Really great points, I appreciate it!
I’m happy to report her training ride went well and taught me a lot about my quirky giraffe!
I removed that shimmable pad and went back to my previous set up. She wasn’t a total rock at the block, but she did quite well with it and was calm. I’m calling it a win.
The big lesson was on how much she hates if you don’t have your butt underneath you and really use it. She doesn’t like too much hand, and hates if you fall forward at all. That’s when she tries to pull her baby rear or stopping—which I really want to eliminate for safety. Once the rider had her butt underneath her and really drove with it, Honey rode beautifully. It was cool to see and learn! Here’s a little clip, and please note, this is the riders first time, there’s a lesson outside and you can hear a tractor. Good girl, Honey! 🩵
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I have not contributed to the thread about your lovely mare, but can I comment on something? Please be very careful if you are using a a small stepladder for mounting, I know of two people who were seriously hurt using small step ladders to mount. One both occasions the horse, for whatever reason, stepped to the side and got a foot through the first and second step and then freaked out. One person was on the ground when it happened and the other was mounted.
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Oh my gosh! New fear unlocked. Thanks for the tip!
The “too much hand” thing is likely from bad riding before, but the losing it over tipping forward a little makes me think discomfort. Any chance you can totally change it up and throw a western saddle on her?
Past that - if you’re sure it’s not big discomfort, I’d carry a dressage whip and get that nipped in the bud first thing. Stopping/propping/rearing is a “hell-to-the-no” from me. Everything else can get dialed in once forward is installed.
She is sensitive and wants to be handled with kid gloves. You can be respectful of that while still insisting she take a little pressure and seek the answer. You can’t ride her like she’s a barrel of TNT… she senses that, and wonders what it is you’re scared/nervous of. Be matter of fact but fair with her, and I bet things with clear up and improve more quickly.
Leg = forward, whether the rider is tipped/crooked/drunk/whatever or not. Once she’s moving off, lots of pets and praise. No babying this part.
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You actually need to put your aids on her. Put your leg on. Take a gentle feel of her mouth. If she wants to go around all Leaping Lena, you just go with her quietly and praise for the right answer. Don’t take the aids off, or she learned “when they take a feel of my mouth, I fling my head and they stop” or “when they put their leg on, I jump around and they stop.”
Babying horses like this prolongs the problem. She will always be sensitive - I find that delightful, and is my preferred ride. But a horse who is THAT picky that you can’t get your aids on is a no-go, and a horse who will rear if you lose your balance a bit is a heck no unless you’re always a perfect rider. I know I’m not!
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I agree. It’s a hell no from me too. I don’t have a western saddle. But I can see if maybe someone at the barn does that would fit her.
I haven’t done X-rays, but after her ppe, a scheduled vet, and an emergency vet appointment, we haven’t found any reason to suspect pain. Just that she has no muscle. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but she stands perfectly calm for tacking up, touching her back and withers, no signs of ulcers… etc. it seems to just be an under saddle thing.
I’m glad to know this is her quirk but I agree. You shouldn’t get a fit—especially a baby rear, if you mess up your eq in some way. I’m sadly out of town for a week but I’ll talk to the girl doing training rides and see if we add a dressage whip how it will go. I have a sense it will make honey realize we mean business.
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Be firm but fair, she will quickly realize the gig is up and then it will be so much more pleasant from here on out. I can’t wait to see the progress!
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I’m certainly not perfect either! It was nice to see the training ride. She was more aggressive than I am in asking her to go forward and it got results. Honey was praised the moment she moved forward. It showed me I can toughen up. I certainly don’t want to baby her and let this go on
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Thank you! I need to get “firm but fair” imprinted in my mind lol
I forget where I heard it, but someone said that the best thing you can give a horse is clarity. And I like to remind myself of that.
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Not quite the same situation, but I’ve had two horses who were initially trained/ridden western and both of them had a hard time at first transitioning to forward seat riding. Neither one of them were sensitive, like Honey, but their immediate response when I would lean forward in a trot was “She’s going to fall off!” and slam on the brakes. It took a while for them to realize that it was simply a different way of doing things and not a catastrophe in the making.
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That’s a very good point. Back when I was still riding colts, I never posted at the first few trot rides. Posting often scared the youngsters at that very early point in their training.
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I agree that rearing in response to a rider off balance is not OK.
I’m not sure I agree that adding a whip to the equation is the answer, and I don’t personally punish horses who stop because the rider becomes off balance. That’s a babysitting skill to be honed and shaped in an ammy horse. Sure, gently encourage them to keep going and learn to compensate for minor upper body shifts so it’s not an abrupt brake slam, but I would 100% rather a horse that thinks ‘oh she’s off balance, I better stop’ than one that thinks ‘oh, she’s off balance, she’s going to hit me, I better run off’. JMO as someone who starts a lot of youngsters. Riders often don’t realize just how much the weight of their upper body moving affects the horse.
OP, it sounds like you are doing great and going at a nice slow pace. A lot of people tend to gloss over mounting block issues so I’m really glad to see you addressing that first! I hesitate to say anything, but if this trainer is going to be doing regular training rides, perhaps a different saddle is needed? Rider is really posting hard off the cantle and the dramatic shifting of the rear of the saddle hurts my own lower back to watch. Your horse looks like she is a real trier and wants to be sensible, I think you found a good one. 
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Thank you, I think she’s a good one too! And I feel like a celebrity now that you’re here: I’ve been following Bo and using your journey as a baseline for trying to get Honey’s weight up.
I agree that I don’t want her to go the opposite direction and take off, but I think if we used the whip to help go forward and avoid the theatrics after she stopped maybe that would be okay? Because she stops, but then has a little too much opinion about restarting.
I agree about saddle fit. I totally am not into the saddle on her. Trying to figure something out there. And waiting to hear back from some fitters to see if there’s anything we can do to make my current one fit for now. In a few months after she’s filled out a bit I’ll more than likely look to buy a new saddle, but that feels premature now.
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What do you know about her background? Was she initially trained saddleseat? If so, the leaning forward could be totally foreign to her. Unfortunately I have seen horses that had bad saddleseat training lose their “forward” button. The “trainer” pushed them for the headset and “brilliance” in an overly aggressive way and the horses became nervous, stuck messes - dancing, spinning, backing or rearing. It would take time, patience, firmness, and confident forward riding to reset their brains.
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While I hear you, both parties don’t know each other well right now, and one of the two has got to take a leadership role. The horse is second guessing what’s going on, and the rider has to take the lead here and give a clear direction.
The more fine and nuanced stuff comes later.
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Unfortunately I don’t know if she ever was trained saddle seat, but that’s a good thought!
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Best in my opinion would be to encourage her forward as soon as she starts to falter, before she actually gets stopped, if you can manage it. Be sure she is 100% comfortable with a whip touching her all over before you introduce one under saddle, if you haven’t already. You don’t want to create additional issues to work through!
If she’s rearing once stopped when you ask her to move off, I personally would not add whip to that scenario as a first resort. Rearing means she feels like the front door is shut, and adding too much pressure to that could create a more dangerous situation. I would prefer to open a ‘side door’, so to speak, with a light opening rein and supporting opposite leg** to get the forward going again via turning. Calmly. But as above, my first goal would be to stop the cycle in the sequence of events that lead up to the disobedience instead of doing damage control (correcting rearing). Fix the problem before it’s a problem.
(**I honestly hesitate to give advice on dealing with rearing (even tiny ones) because it’s very hard to judge the whys and what’s happening without seeing it in person and knowing the horse, and also knowing the rider’s capabilities and timing. Rearing is one that can go sideways fast if you do the wrong thing or don’t have a good feel.)
There are about as many ways to train horses as there are roads to Rome the above is just what I do, YMMV as always.
This particular point is why, if it were me and I was riding this horse, I would be very hesitant to immediately go to the stick for rearing specifically. You (g) have no idea if the horse has a history of flipping and this is a warning, or if it’s just a greenie trying on different methods of resistance. 
Safety first!
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I watched your video. My brain started “yelling” “is the breastplate irritating her?”
If you have to use the breastplate, well she will just have to get used to it.
I saw no proof of irritation, but I watched it a few times and I got that impression each time.
Saddlebreds use their shoulders differently than most horses. It has to do with the fact that they move their humerus more than most breeds of horses. Talking with a Saddlebred guy who used to train them for show he said that most horses just don’t use their shoulders at all. It took me a while to figure out that he meant that the horses did not move their humerus like Saddlebred horses do.
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That could also be stemming from saddle fit and I guess I am going to say the unpopular thing but that rider is a bit heavier ( in weight ) than I would choose for a horse in her condition. She looks to be coming down quite heavy on her when posting as well.
All that can have an effect on her willingness to go forward and cause some resistance.
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