With all due respect, I think it is a mistake to parse good, functional equitation from mere “pretty.”
I come from Hunter World, one of the few places, I am learning, that equitation is formally taught. And we have a very big contest for juniors, so I am used to respecting the pursuit of good equitation as a worthwhile and constant endeavor. In hunter/jumper world at least, there are function, horse-friendly reasons for the pursuit of a quiet position or tall posture. It’s not merely posing on a horse. My experience in riding my dressage horse suggests that there, too, form follows function.
I don’t think one person’s ability to ride or not has any logical relation to another rider’s ability to equitate better. And so, sadly, sometimes the slacker railbirds and can be right. Spades are spades whether you say so or not.
And it does sound like the OP was not rude about this at the horse show. No one there or here needs to know who the rider in question was. But it can still be a legit observation or topic.
One thing about dressage is that the rider/horse can flub up one aspect of a test and still get a good score.
If a rider is bouncing but it doesn’t affect the quality of the movement, then the judge is not likely to dock the score on that movement. What the judge would do is account for this in the collectives at the end of the test.
A rider could get a bad score for seat and position, get 6, 7, or 8 on everything else and easily end up winning. That is the advantage of the way the tests are scored as well as the personality of a horse that puts up with bouncing.
Besides, how many people watch pro baseball, football, etc. and comment on what they see? Tons. The TV commentators are usually former pros, but there are plenty of proverbial “armchair quarterbacks” who may have never played in the NFL, or maybe never played football but have watched enough to comment on differences that they see.
Yeah, this is why I almost never post in the dressage forum and have even stopped reading much here. I completely get what you’re saying, OP, and understand your disappointment in finding that a new acquaintance isn’t who you thought she was.
I am old and spent my formative years under a fairly uncompromising directive that you had to achieve the appropriate level of rider skill before you entered the show ring. But even back in the 60s/70s, there were always people at shows whose money and nice horses allowed them to show above their skill level. (shrug) We’ve all got to proceed down the path that makes the most sense to us.
And I cannot believe that all of you people who are chastising the OP have never been at a dressage competition and been appalled at the lack of skill of one or more of the competitors. You may not have said anything, and you may not have posted about it on a public internet form, but you certainly thought it. Don’t be a bunch of hypocrites.
Hypocrites because we have observed other riders of varying skill levels at shows but have the good sense not to sh!t on other people for where they’re at in their journeys or how their stars aligned on a particular show day? That’s rich!
I for one find it heartening that this dressage board doesn’t tend to indulge people in airing petty grudges against other riders.
Ignoring the cattiness of OPs comments, there is also some reality to discuss. Some people are pretty riders and effective, some people are pretty riders and ineffective. Some people are NOT pretty riders, yet effective, some are NOT pretty and ineffective. So just because someone doesn’t look like the “model rider” doesn’t mean they can’t ride. And in some cases, a very tense horse MAY be better with a very loose rider - and some of those very loose riders are very capable.
I know a local rider who is not pretty to watch (not floppy, but not pretty), yet she is VERY effective, and has brought many horses up the levels. She scores well as a rider because she is effective, not because she is elegant to watch. I also know people who are very pretty on a horse - but really can’t ride all that well. Watch and see which horses go well - if the horse is going well, something is going right.
Then, of course, some riders have schoolmasters and their trainer keeps the horses tuned up for them. They are learning, just like the OP, but they can afford the schooled horse and the full training bill. I suspect OP may be a bit envious of people in that situation -I know I am:D…
OP, as several have pointed out, focus on your own riding. If you want to watch others to sharpen your eye, and to learn, do it! But don’t be mean and catty - we are all struggling our way through this very difficult sport…
It’s not about seeing people ride badly, it’s about taking to the internets to talk about how awful other people are. That’s awful, really, it’s an awful shady sheisty thing to do, and I will say so every time someone posts one of these nasty mean girl threads.
I don’t think you have summarized the OP’s point fairly, without exaggeration. IMO, one has to read and fight fairly in order to be taken serious. Distorting the other side’s position hardly creates a victory, eh?
Rather, I think the OP was surprised and a bit critical, but in that order. And the surprise was what I read there. I have to say, it surprises me, too, when I see people doing Hard Stuff on horseback without the apparent skills to have trained that or to stay on. I usually think this about folks jumping while riding badly. I mean, one can get hurt, after all,
I think we have all been surprised, dismayed, pick on adjective. No one is doubting that some people out there show above their skill level. What people are not condoning is singling out a rider on a public BB. The OP has given enough details for a barnmate to figure out who she is talking about or the person herself. That I think is wrong. How would you or the OP feel if some acquaintance posted a similar thread about your riding or the OPs riding. We have all cringed at shows. What we don’t all do is take to the internet about it with enough detail that the rider in question could say hey that’s me.
If the OP asked in general about floppy riders or position at the higher levels, no one would have a problem.
If someone posted on eventing or hunter jumper about a rider jumping way above their skill level, coming out of the tack, water skiing over jumps, leg all floppy, I think the discussion would be a little different in large part because of the safety issue.
And you wouldn’t need to be a Grand Prix jumper rider yourself to legitimately say some kid was riding dangerously at 3 feet. You don’t need to be at or above a given rider’s attempted competition level to notice the same egregious errors your own coach would have your hide for.
Something about this post rubbed every one the wrong way. Maybe the topic got exhausted by the Del Mar thread over the past winter (OP you should look that up if you missed it. Rider also scored 57, though in Grand Prix). Maybe no one has an appetite for criticizing a no name ammie in a small town schooling show (I assume).
I have to say, my critical little eye lands quite often on WTF moments in video and IRL by local backyard trainers and less skilled but presumptuous riders. But I hesitate to bring them forward as COTH fodder because (a) I know what I’m seeing is bad, so I don’t need to double check my reactions and (b) I don’t think the very local rider or trainer is of general interest to COTH, if they are just the same kind of incompetence we all can find if we look around our own barns or community.
The Del Mar video went “viral” and became “national news” because it was on a live feed. Apparently no one was watching IRL?
If I’d recorded similar on my cell phone at a local show and posted it to COTH I bet there’d have been more push to leave the poor woman alone and that I was betraying privacy or something. Especially if I made it obvious she was a frenemy.
Anyhow. Just musing over how bulletin boards function and what works as a way to frame a topic of conversation.
There is a legitimate question here: how good should your equitation be in order to ride a dressage test? Given that most ammies coming up the levels are doing so for the first time, and may not be doing the primary training on their horses.
And as other posters have pointed out, there’s issues of seat and position that may be impossible to ever fix.
I’ve seen different routes to a score of 57 at 4th. Lovely rider with very sloppy ring craft on horse that moved well but wasn’t accurate on some transitions or moves. Effective but harsh backyard pro rider muscling horse through precise but flat ride. Or, an ammie, Pinnochio arms on a horse that was always just slightly behind the bit. I’ve seen people go “up the levels” to 4 th or PSG rarely breaking 60, most scores 55 to 57. Which is low for our region.
If you know them personally you’re invested in all this, especially if they’ve rubbed you the wrong way. But if you don’t know them personally you would just glance at them and walk on.
The point being we all have people like this locally, and generally just don’t pay attention unless we know them personally.
There are ways to discuss or critique others’ rides that don’t make you seem so catty. You saw a questionable ride. Ok. Discuss it with your trainer. You saw the rider do this, the horse responded like this. Why? What do you think should have happened? What would you do if you and your horse made the same mistake?
I’d bet that you also have issues that keep you looking like Charlotte Dujardin. I’m sure you’ve waterskiied on your horse’s mouth, or jabbed her sides too much or bounced at the trot. Stay in your own lane and work on you. Someone else’s sloppy riding isn’t your problem. I’m also guessing that maybe you’re staying at training level because you know you’re going to get the same kind of railbird treatment that you’re so freely handing out now if you move up?
Dont just come on a board and act like you can do it so much better. It just makes you look jealous and it’s hard to take that seriously.
What anyone says outside those white railings is irrelevant. As you pointed out, only the judge’s comments matter. I’m sure most of us have trotted past someone at some point and heard some catty thing muttered under their breath. The thing is, their memory is as long as it takes for the next rider to trot by. One of my favorite sayings is, “You wouldn’t worry so much about people thought about you if you knew how little they did”.
OP, you’re title alone is begging for a fight. If you want to make a case for poor riding, you might get some more effective input if you went at it from a more neutral starting point.
I think that’s generally right, and a profitable way to read this thread.
The first thing…well, I just don’t do it. It doesn’t make me any better to gather a quorum of people (who didn’t see the ride) agree with me that bad riding sucks. Like Senators and porn: You know it when you see it.
But the other question about whether or not good equitation should be required stands. And I think it ought to. I think it’s a relatively new thing to have trainers doing the training and riders just riding. I don’t do that with my horse… and so we will progress at the pace that I learn to ride and make up a dressage horse. It’s glacially slow. But that is what I thought I was buying into when I bought a dressage horse. I admit that I’m living in about 1987 NorCal.
It may not have looked pretty to you but if she was winning her classes I’m going to hazard a guess that she managed to ride pretty darn effectively and produced a good quality, correct test.
And yes, except for the specific rider scores in the collective the horse is primarily judged, not the rider. All things equal, a better rider should produce a better test. But even if you do just strugglenat thrblower levels I suspect you already know this and simply posted to vent or be mean spirited.
If nobody in the class even hit the 60 mark then nobody had a good ride that day…seems pretty obvious. If she was the best of a not very good bunch of tests that day she still wins the class, no? The judges gave it a low score so clearly they saw some issues with the performance as well. I’m really not understanding the purpose of your posts…each one sounds more bitter and catty than the rest and now you are putting specific scores and levels up which would make it fairly easy to identify the rider. Not cool.
Did it ever occur to you that those folks were working REALLY hard to solve their problems, perhaps they were /are not natural athletes, perhaps they have had injuries that prevent a “pretty” ride? No, because you chalked it up to Money and Good Horses. That smacks of jealousy.
