Agreed.
I would never justify “not pretty” by saying that it’s “effective.” But it’s also likely that you and I are not defining “pretty” in the same way. In my book, a kind, harmonious, and effective ride is a pretty ride whether you think it’s “elegant” or not.
Floppy is not kind or harmonious, although I suppose it’s possible to be “effective,” if you define effective as meaning that you successfully complete the required movements in a dressage test. In that situation, I guess you could say it’s “not pretty, but it’s effective.” But I wouldn’t consider that a compliment.
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I do think there’s some useful stuff here–I suspect I could learn a lot about dressage by having a good judge go through video of a ride that looks horrible but scores OKish and show people movement-by-movement where that 57% (or whatever) comes from. (Either that or I’d learn that high-level judging is a crock of steaming crap, but I do think “ignore the rider and focus on the horse” covers a lot of it.)
The question of judging standards usually gets buried under the rider qualification argument, though, and I don’t think the USDF is ever going to touch that again.
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There could be many reasons for a ride like this. Maybe this person has show nerves. Maybe her trainer is taking her for a ride and telling her she’s god’s gift to dressage (either pushing to show at this level or unwilling to tell their client the truth). Maybe the horse got spooked right as they began their warmup and they never recovered from it. If the test was accurate and horse flashy enough, the rider’s equitation counts for a lot less.
I think we have all seen these kinds of rides before. But I tend to cut AAs a lot more slack than a professional. And even pros have bad days or more difficult mounts. I become less forgiving when I see the same terrible riding from the same rider (especially a pro) with more than one horse or at more than one show.
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Yes.
Before I’d ever seen him ride, my trainer was mentioned to me by a friend as someone who didn’t look pretty on a horse, but all the clinicians raved about how wonderful he was. So when I did see him ride, I made a point of watching to see why that was. He’s nowhere near the ideal type of body shape, and despite his constant work so he’s strong and fit, he’s also an air fern. I’d rather he keep that ability to work all day between riding horses, working on his facility, etc., vs starve himself to try to lose weight since vegetables and lean protein aren’t enough to do it. He also has what we used to call “trainer eq” in the breed show world. He’s VERY effective, no crookedness, good hands, soft, and the horses are super happy. I could easily see him in the ring on a tight horse being poo-pooed by a rider lacking knowledge because of that lack of pretty factor. But once you know and understand the effects of riding on the horse’s mouth, back, hind legs, etc., you start to see a different picture which is beautiful. That’s what equitation is about - riding for the betterment of the horse.
I used to win equitation classes regularly. I would probably have loved watching this rider, because I only wish I could have some flop. My body is built to be TIGHT. So I am constantly working to attempt to flop a bit to help ensure my horses are happy. If I get tight at a show, it won’t be as easily seen in my position, and people who are less educated will think my horse is just being difficult for misbehavior, and not realize I’ve caused it. So when I see someone who is floppy, I figure they’re the equivalent - only a different body type, so it is expressed differently.
A 57% at PSG isn’t where anyone wants to be - they’re ALMOST there, and missing it! But assuming it was judged appropriately, that says to me the horse and rider pair are probably matched decently. Either the rider is struggling and horse is putting up with it, or horse is more difficult and rider is compensating for it in a way which isn’t hunter ring pretty. We’re all learning, with different journeys - life is too short to be petty.
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@netg I’m so glad you mentioned this regarding body type! Quite often a rider with short legs on a big horse will look much “noisier” versus someone with long, thin legs that drape elegantly down a horse’s barrel, even if the shorter rider is still riding effectively and getting the same kind of ride. Of course, “noisier” isn’t the same as being ineffectively floppy. I’m thinking of some shorter professional eventers, actually, who are great riders and get great rides and scores from their horses but ride big monsters of cross-country machines that they might not be suited to look “pretty” on in the dressage ring.
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I would say anyone with a longer torso is prone to getting that undulation through the whole torso which can look so awkward (and cause back problems) but which horses really don’t mind! I instead end up pumping - shoulders move back and forth, and look as stiff as I feel, and my horses get blocked by it.
WFP isn’t overly pretty on his horses, but he has such amazing body control - his rides are absolutely BEAUTIFUL to me because of it, despite less than ideal pairings for aesthetics.
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This complaint is as old as time. As long as there are horses, trainers and amateur riders, regardless of the discipline, there will be some ammy out there getting to do things all of us other ammys all wish we could because they have the horse, the trainer and the $ to get them there. There will also always be railbirds poo-pooing these people. The fact is if I could even fathom getting around a 4th level test, then I’d probably want to give it a try (even though I’d look like a sack of potatoes). The joy of getting older is that you care less about what other people think, so maybe one day when I win the lottery I will do exactly that and maybe there will be a post like this about me. 
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To further complicate this discussion, I want to add one more bit of information. This person is not an AA and in fact a trainer.
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Who gives a s…?
It was just a damn schooling show… :rolleyes: get over it…
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Okay so don’t ride with them. I’ve seen that too. I’m not yapping about it on a B.B.
Get over yourself
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@netg That’s so true about WFP! I always notice Buck Davidson, because I have short legs, but WFP has the opposite problem–there just simply aren’t that many horses in his discipline that he doesn’t look “too tall” for aesthetically. Although clearly both riders’ mounts are quite happy with the rides they are being given, in all of the many tests I’ve seen them ride.
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Yup. It’s an entirely unregulated market and anyone can set up as a trainer. And they can post photos on FB of first place ribbons earned at schooling shows with scores of 55.
That’s why one good bit of advice for picking a trainer is go watch them ride and coach at a show and watch their clients ride too.
Really as with all horse things it’s buyer beware.
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@Scribbler I was actually talking to a friend of mine about a trainer in my area and how could she ethically charge money. I do not think she is good enough to hang a shingle but her clients seem happy. This was about a month ago. Totally didn’t start a thread.
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Don’t we all know of trainers not worth their salt??? Student beware as always. Who gives a s### indeed.
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Yeah. It happens too much to even be news. The clients will move on if they aren’t getting what they want, or stay if they are.
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I think we all just need to not worry about how good/lousy someone is. If you are paying for their opinion, that’s one thing. Otherwise, there’s enough negativity in our sport without pissing and moaning about someone on a bulletin board. If the rider is that bad that she/he is harming their horses, report them to USEF. Otherwise, move along. Nothing to see here.
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I’ve had 2 dressage trainers over the last 2-3 years. I like both for different reasons. One is a very nice rider; functional and looks great. The other is so overweight I don’t know the last time he’s been on a horse. I cannot fathom his riding being nice to look at. He can barely walk to the arena without getting winded, but he’s a great instructor. Everyone told me not to judge his appearance and give him a try. Of course I’d give anyone a shot regardless. So there are some trainers that are fantastic from the ground…from the saddle, not so much. So while I want to judge by their riding, I don’t always do that. You have to look at their students too. How do they ride? What are their results? Are they happy?
Perhaps I would if I were looking for a trainer to instruct AND ride my horse it’d be different. While I do have a trainer capable of that, we’ve just never felt the need so far.
ETA: there was another trainer that I used for my WB for about a month to go some rides. She’s a fine rider but she is built so well for dressage. Long, lean, and supple. I’m a little bit more short and tight. I got away with it in the jumpers, but I’ve really had to change for successful dressage riding. I envy those with naturally loose hips!
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You should probably learn when to stop digging. None of this is helping you look any less petty.
You started this post as a generally commentary about the preponderance of poor riding at upper levels at a recent show. Soon it became clear that you weren’t concerned about a general issue at all, but only one specific rider. Now it’s further clear that it’s a personal issue between you and the rider, apparently because you believed their own PR about how good they were and didn’t do your due diligence.
There are dozens, probably hundreds of “pros” who lack the skill and the results to back up their claims. Lots of “trainers” who haven’t trained a single horse past First Level. People stay because they don’t know any better, because they don’t want to end the relationship, because they are comfortable, because they believe they need this particular
trainer, because the price is right…lots of reasons.
If you are a current client of this pro then move on. If you aren’t, her riding / training ability makes zero difference to your life and bitching about it here - while including identifiying details - is really crass.
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Still eating lemons? Stop digging!!
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