This was so horrible that I had to fast forward through a lot of it.
Thoughts?
Does anyone know the story behind it, mainly why Mr. Roberts was there, and why he couldn’t do anything to stop it? I’m afraid to ask about the fate of the horse…
I’m not even halfway through the video. I don’t see anything “horrific” as of yet. It is the “hispanic” culture to be a little more hands on and a little less “give him a treat for every step he takes”. I don’t agree with a lot of Hispanic trainers methods, but they are usual things to them in their country.
Right now, I am observing a very unbroke and likely untouched horse attempting to be caught. A little unconventional, but I have seen it done much worse by “american” cowboys. Next I am seeing a horse they are trying to move but is planting it’s feet. A little excessive with the whipping? Yea probably, but it’s not horrific. I mean, please tell me you have never seen someone bring out a lunge whip or lead rope to get a horse who is being stubborn into a trailer. I bet you never blinked an eye, unless you are a NH’er, then I am sure you chewed their a$$ up and down.
Maybe I am not to the horrific part yet, but I am not seeing anything that really stands out as OMG HOW HORRIBLE yet. Am I see things that I would probably do a little different? Yep. Am I called the police? NO.
Again, I’m not even five minutes in… So it could get worse?
Translated the bottom half of the video.
“Monty Roberts passively witnessing a beating of a colt, the National Exhibition Marchador in BH.
Regrettable and shocking scenes, mainly by the passivity of the one who claims to be “friend of horses” or “lovely horse.””
I’m guessing there is a lot more to the video…
I don’t particularly like to log in to view videos. Is there a place to watch it where you do not need to log in?
I would like to see first hand what constitutes horrific abuse, watched by Monty Roberts…
[QUOTE=Belmont;7536966]
I’m guessing there is a lot more to the video…[/QUOTE]
Not really…it continues in approximately the same fashion as the 5 or so minutes you saw. I wouldn’t say it escalates any. One of the guys eventually gets on the horse, who still is planting his feet and unwilling/unable to move forward.
OP, we don’t know the context of this video. We don’t know what happened after. We don’t know where this horse came from: we don’t know if he is a rank greenie, a remedial horse, or a wild horse. What exactly were you expecting? That Monty Roberts jump in the ring, yank the line away from the men and say “let me show you how it’s done?” Perhaps he was observing how they back horses, perhaps this was a special case, we don’t know. So calling him out for not doing anything is at best, jumping to conclusions, and at worst, inviting an unnecessary flaming of a horseman without due proof.
belmont maybe we’re not seeing the same video but the video I saw has a paint horse w/ a rope and chain halter (chain is part of or all of the noseband), one guy is yanking at the lead or “lunge” line while another guy is constantly smacking the horse w/ a rope (note this video also came w/ a warning)… so initially I thought maybe Man 2 was lightly hitting the horse w/ rope - like some type of desensitizing that was until he started smacking the horse’s legs (hard) then the horse fell down, the beating continues… Man 1 is yanking or holding firmly the chain nose banded halter… that’s about all I can stomach… the only thing I can imagine Monty Roberts standing by for is to make some sort of statement that that method is horrible (yes) and that he will show them his way… which isn’t rocket science. it’s called patience…at the end of the video they show the horse’s mouth w/ cuts, nose with a cut (from the chain noseband)
I can’t believe anyone seeing this video thinks they’re doing this because the horse is a “rank greenie” I’m not sure if Monty ROberts could’ve intervened but one of the comments made was that he and his film crew were filming in an effort to stop this kind of insane machismo method of breaking horses.
They’re not attempting to catch it or get it on a trailer. They’re breaking it. I can’t watch, but am fast-forwarding. Right now, they have the horse on the ground with a saddle on it.
It’s pretty bad, and without watching the thing through, nor with sound, I just skipped through.
The sense in beating the horse eludes me.
The horse gets tied up to a fence post cnsisting of strung wire…a tragedy waiting to happen.
In the end the horse is lathered, and tired, won’t move forward after being saddled. It’s pretty good banged up in the end.
[QUOTE=gottagrey;7537068]
I can’t believe anyone seeing this video thinks they’re doing this because the horse is a “rank greenie” [/QUOTE]
I didn’t say I believed that. I said we don’t know what the case is here. Do I think this is good horsemanship? No, I don’t. But I also don’t think it is necessary or right to call out a professional for allegedly standing by when we don’t know WHAT the deal is.
I’m not sure if Monty ROberts could’ve intervened but one of the comments made was that he and his film crew were filming in an effort to stop this kind of insane machismo method of breaking horses.
I didn’t read any of the comments, but this makes total sense. The person who posted the video on Youtube didn’t give the whole story, hence why this sort of thing is unnecessarily inflammatory.
[QUOTE=gottagrey;7537068]
belmont maybe we’re not seeing the same video but the video I saw has a paint horse w/ a rope and chain halter (chain is part of or all of the noseband), one guy is yanking at the lead or “lunge” line while another guy is constantly smacking the horse w/ a rope (note this video also came w/ a warning)… so initially I thought maybe Man 2 was lightly hitting the horse w/ rope - like some type of desensitizing that was until he started smacking the horse’s legs (hard) then the horse fell down, the beating continues… Man 1 is yanking or holding firmly the chain nose banded halter… that’s about all I can stomach… the only thing I can imagine Monty Roberts standing by for is to make some sort of statement that that method is horrible (yes) and that he will show them his way… which isn’t rocket science. it’s called patience…at the end of the video they show the horse’s mouth w/ cuts, nose with a cut (from the chain noseband)
I can’t believe anyone seeing this video thinks they’re doing this because the horse is a “rank greenie” I’m not sure if Monty ROberts could’ve intervened but one of the comments made was that he and his film crew were filming in an effort to stop this kind of insane machismo method of breaking horses.[/QUOTE]
I’m not condoning the way they are treating the horse. I was just stating I don’t find it “horrific”. I have seen much worse and much worse has been posted of these forums.
I’m sure Monty was there for a reason. His film crew was there for a reason, and I am sure he wasn’t “just standing by and rooting for them”. I guess my main point is “different strokes for different folks”. We see it every day in HUMANS that different cultures do different things. This is NORMAL in this culture. This is what they do. Is it excessive? Yes. Is it necessary? No. Did they really get anywhere? Eh, not really. The horse just got used to be whipped by ropes and didn’t want to go forward. Yes, I understand they used a harsh nose band and bit… Uhm, have you been to some big trainers barns? Again, I don’t think its right. But it happens everyday under our noses. Those nose bands and bits are what they use all the time, like we use snaffles. Have you ever used a stud chain? Ever put a stud chain under a lip because a big horse drags you around? I can name many trainers who use this practice. I know people who have tethering poles.
I finally watched the whole video. There were some parts what were edited in. We didn’t get to see what the horse laid down. We didn’t see if they put it down or if he fell. I know horse trainers who have been known to put a horse down gently. We don’t know.
We don’t know what Monty did next. We don’t know what he did before. We don’t actually know why he was there and what he was doing.
I don’t think what a lot of the things they did were right, but I also don’t live in that culture. I’ve seen some bad stuff. I think slandering Monty Roberts is pointless. We don’t know the whole story. I have a feeling the people who posted the video are the area’s PETA…
I agree wholeheartedly with Belmont et al.
I’m just wondering if Monty Roberts was really there at all? He’s never actually shown in the same scene as the horse, the camera just goes back and forth. Not my cup of tea to break horses like that, but I do think it could have been much worse.
Belmont - sure plenty of trainers have used chain shanks but I don’t know any that lunge with one… and as you said we don’t know what the story is, I’m not calling MR out for not doing anything (comments on the YouTube link not here) as it appears he was there for something - maybe the day went - their way first, then his way… who knows. I’m not thinking that the second time the horse was on the ground it was done gently though - otherwise it might’ve been shown… instead the camera went to MR face
Sketcher - I’m not sure why you would have to log in? It’s just a link to a Youtube video?
Abbie.S - You are right, I didn’t make my question very clear. I actually wasn’t trying to bash Monty Roberts here at ALL. I know there has been a lot said about him, but that’s really like beating a dead horse at this point. Personally, I like and have used many of his methods. I was just curious as to why #1 he was unable to stop it (but as someone pointed out, he could have been filming to show people what NOT to do) and 2# I was curious what others thought on the video itself, and if they knew the full story behind it.
I’m sorry if folks think that the word “horrific” is being overdramatic. I am in no way shape or form a PETA member, Parelli Groupie, or NH trainer/kool-aide drinker. But what they did to that poor horse turned my stomach. 
Gotta chime in to say that these are NOT Hispanics. The language with the video is Portuguese, so this is probably in Brazil or Portugal. I believe this is Brazil because of the mention of Marchadors (a Brazilian breed) and I think I heard on his daughter’s radio show that he was going there.
He was probably just watching in order to learn how they do what they do. I know he has been involved in trying to change horse handling in several countries.
I don’t hate MR and I’m not a fan either, but I’ve seen Americans do FAR, FAR worse to a horse than this. Go look on horse boards and see how many people are obsessed with laying a horse down to show it what for.
Piss-poor horsemanship, at best.
[QUOTE=Freebird!;7537156]
Abbie.S - You are right, I didn’t make my question very clear. I actually wasn’t trying to bash Monty Roberts here at ALL.[/QUOTE]
Well, actually, you were pretty clear: you asked what others thought, and if anyone knew the story behind it. I wasn’t referring to you re: the bashing. Moreso the poster of the original video on Youtube. The captions that appear between the scenes are clearly inflammatory, and the poster’s intent is to rile people up about MONTY, not necessarily the men in the arena with the horse and their actions. That’s where I draw issue, because the whole story wasn’t given.
But agreed, it’s stomach-turning to watch.
^^Oh, ok. Gotcha - and I agree.
Not a great situation for the horse or the handlers, for that matter. Would I call it “brutal?” No. Too rough for my tastes, certainly.
I may not be horrific abuse. And Monty may be being polite as a guest from another country.
But it skill less and incompetent and ignorant and clueless and lame and those guys are really bad at what they do.
[QUOTE=Another Poster;7537145]
I’m just wondering if Monty Roberts was really there at all? He’s never actually shown in the same scene as the horse, the camera just goes back and forth. Not my cup of tea to break horses like that, but I do think it could have been much worse.[/QUOTE]
They show him with the pinto in the background in the very beginning and again they show his profile, someone says in the background the horse is on the ground and they then cut the film to the horse on its side.
What, Can’t Monty make any money in 'Murica any more?
