Horse balking at the leg at halt only

[Lunabear1988]

This is a continuum of my horse shopping saga for this following. I think I am passing on the very cute, little horse although he’s got SUCH a great brain. He’s started and I’m so impressed with his training. Unfortunately I noticed some stiffness in his right hind in recent weeks. Plus other concerns, a clubby looking foot, his body condition isn’t getting any better and I noticed he’s cowhocked. Weak loin and all that I just really think I need to pass. Wish it wasn’t that way.

But I’m looking at another horse. An OTTB, 7 years old, off the track end of Jan. Looks very sound, fairly good conformation, decent feet. Great size for me. Just restarted. I rode him when he had only 5 rides post track. I hadn’t ridden in 5 months… Lol

When the trainer got on (and she didn’t lunge him. Just let him run around for a few minutes loose) he was very balky to the leg. He even have a small buck. She had me get her a whip and then he got going. She was a good rider, a h/j. She did ride him in a way I wouldn’t and didn’t, for how freshly restarted he was. Definitely very much driving him into a strong contact. He was not happy at first. Ears pinning, trying to stop by with the whip he went.

Honestly, I was thinking I might die, seeing that I haven’t ridden in 5 months. She didn’t ride him long. Maybe ten/fifteen minutes? Anyways I get on, take a breath, and he is fine. Again, I ride softly and very conservatively when I don’t know a horse, especially a green one. So not saying I rode him better just in a different, less demanding way. He was forward and I barely needed any leg. I didn’t worry about his head of course but he did start relaxing with me. The only thing he did was I stopped near the people to talk and he did pin his ears when I went to walk on. I just wiggled the whip (didn’t even use it) and he walked on. I didn’t notice any behavior besides that. Once going he was forward.

This horse hasn’t been treated for ulcers. He doesn’t look particularly ulcery but he was a little fussy at grooming. I think if I were to get him (pending more rides and a PPE) I would treat him at least with nexium or something just because he did race until he was 7. Or if my vet really thought he was ulcery I could go straight to gastrogard.

But I’m also wondering if this is just track baggage? I’ve owned 2 ottbs and ridden many. I think most have their little things. Some you can overcome and some you just work with/around.

My only pause is I typically would never buy a balky horse. But when he was going he felt great. And his reaction/behavior with me was very mild. Watching video, he seems pleasant with me and like he’s really listening to see what I want. Plus I was not in top riding form and he really put up with me so well.

Thoughts?! Should I bother looking more into him or this a run away. My trainer friend thinks it’s fine, but she’s ultra confident and positive ha ha. So looking for others experience on this specific scenario.

[Lunabear1988]

I apologise if this is incoherent and rambling. Anyone who reads through and gets it, deserves an award!!

[tbchick84]

I would say trust your gut on this one. To me this sounds to be training related, or at his stage lack there-of. Sure, his balking could be ulcers, pain related or even Lyme. Or it could be just that he was just restarted too quickly and is a bit sour about it. If you buy him, you’ll be going back to square one to plug the training holes anyway, so you’d have time to take it slowly with him. You’ve ridden TB’s before, so you already know you can’t throw a bunch of new things at them all at once, so you should be fine there.
What is his pedigree? Some lines tend to be more opinionated than others, but I’ve found almost all of them have a good work ethic. I’d say, if you liked his gaits, he felt responsive to you and it he was going around happy as a clam with ears up, it sure sounds good to me. When you get the PPE, pay attention to his back/SI area. I’ve stopped counting how many threads I’ve read about new OTTB owners with problems in the SI area.

[Lunabear1988]

@tbchick84 thanks for your insight. I got more of a “he’s recently restarted and confused about what asked of him” vibe over anything physical. Like I said, he didn’t really seem ulcery to me really but after racing and traveling across the country, I don’t think it would be bad to treat in case.

I will say out of all the ones I’ve tried, all who either didn’t race or had a year from the track, he felt the most loose in his body. I tried one that just screamed body sore/foot sore and felt like he just raced but had a year off the track. This one, felt pretty loose even with some obvious “mental” tension.

He does have Danzig which I know had a reputation. Although on the ground he seemed sweet and willing and honestly overall under saddle he did. Watching the video, he really was trying to figure out what u wanted of him which I always like to see.

He also isn’t getting real turnout. He isn’t in a stall, more like a run or pen. But it’s not turnout. Turnout is alone in the area. Ideally I’d like to get him some regular turnout, some systematic lunging and ground work and use some good old dressage to teach him a new way to use his body. But slowly.

Definitely will take an extra look at back and SI. Probably will xray feet too if I go forward. But he didn’t seem foot sore to me. He really seemed pretty comfortable in his body with the way he moved.

[Libby2563]

That wouldn’t scare me off at all. Lots of young/green horses have balky moments and many horses would rather stop and chat than work! Plus he was soft and forward while you were working and complied quickly when you insisted.

My new(ish) guy is also a 7-year-old OTTB off the track since Jan. He even has Danzig a few generations back. We could be twinsies! I gave mine some time off to unwind but have been riding him for about 2 months now and he’s going beautifully. My longtime dressage coach just saw him go for the first time this week and loved his hind end and natural balance.

Good luck going forward, I know you’ve been looking for a while!

[Lunabear1988]

@Libby2563 yes that’s what I thought. More green racehorse stuff than any potential soundness I thought anyways.

Plus it was non issue for me when I was riding. Very mild for me. At least he respects the whip. When they are they balking and rank to the whip is not difficult. You just have to carry the whip and he goes fine. He’s definitely more forward and fluid than many I’ve been trying lately.

And thank you. So hard to horse shop after losing a young horse. I definitely feel more careful. But I’m excited too. I just want the “right” one.

[CHT]

I would try him again, but this time you get on first. He may be a very different horse (good or bad) without the prior ride.

A good trainer can make a dull horse light in a short time: he might be quite dull without the “tune up” or he might be much happier without a rider that gives conflicting cues (leg + hand)

[Lunabear1988]

Yes that’s definitely my plan @CHT although she rode him for only ten minutes. He was very very forward though so unless the change is extremely drastic (like he’s totally dull or rank) I would be still okay with that. But I hear what you are saying. It was only his 5th ride off the track though and personally I didn’t and wouldn’t expect true roundess ect yet from him. So I think that was it but we will see! I go see him again soon.

[RainWeasley]

Out of curiousity, if you get him, would you be doing all of the riding or will your trainer be working with him? It sounds like she was asking for a more than he was ready for, so I would be a bit cautious of how he went with her if she is going to be working with him a lot. If you are planning on doing most or all of it yourself though, he sounds nice and like he is very willing to work with you!

[Lunabear1988]

@RainWeasley the trainer riding him was the seller, not my trainer. He went around happily for me.

I will be working with a trainer but not sure that they can come in person to see him, might be going off video. I’m not a great rider by any means but have been riding/owning for 23 years so I’m fairly confident if all goes well in the second ride/PPE that he’ll do well with how I will restart him. Much slower and easier paced imo.

[RainWeasley]

@Lunabear1988

@RainWeasley the trainer riding him was the seller, not my trainer. He went around happily for me.

I will be working with a trainer but not sure that they can come in person to see him, might be going off video. I’m not a great rider by any means but have been riding/owning for 23 years so I’m fairly confident if all goes well in the second ride/PPE that he’ll do well with how I will restart him. Much slower and easier paced imo.

Whoops totally read that as your trainer rode him, my bad! He sounds pretty level headed though!

[Lunabear1988]

@RainWeasley no worries! If my trainer had that reaction, yeah I’d be a little worried ha ha

[Scribbler]

IME an OTTB with only 5 rides off the track is pretty much as green as they get. I am sure the seller was muscling him around to make him seem more advanced than he is.

I would only suggest buying this horse if you are ready and able to restart him all over again, including the ground work and longeing work of your preference, and to ease him back into work so he is not confused or reluctant.

I wouldn’t say this is track baggage per se, because it could happen to any green horse that is muscled into “contact” or “frame” before he knows what a bit is for, and then forced to go forward. Hopefully with only 5 rides, the seller hasn’t done too much damage to him yet!

[Lunabear1988]

@Scribbler he definitely reminds me of my first Ottb. Same age. I will say comparing my 7 year old OTTB who had 49 starts and the one I sadly put down over the summer (at 5, he was 3 years old when I bought him with only 5 starts.) There is a difference. Both were green as grass. But imo the 3 year old felt more like a big baby than anything else. The 7 year old was very green but there was some buttons already installed. Maybe not the ones I wanted to use ha ha but he was smart and really fun. He actually dragged me on the lunge line (seller didn’t tell me that he was terrified of even the sight of a whip!) And bucked me off due to a spook. His owner was a beginner but when I got him home, he very quickly turned into one of the best horses i ever owned!

So anyways the one I am looking at reminds me more of my first Ottb in that type. Forward, a bit sensitive but a tries his heart out. We will see if I feel the same after seeing him a second time. I definitely would want to restart him in my way but honestly I do that with any greener horse. I just never think it’s a bad idea to at least check for training holes. And like you said, hopefully I can get him into my hands soon enough!
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[merrygoround]

Again remembering that every horse is different, even an OTTB. This one perhaps had exercise riders who may have had a very different way of asking for forward, perhaps using more seat than leg. Even exercise racing saddles don’t allow for a lot of leg use.

And perhaps he used to a rider pausing at the end of a work out to confer with a trainer, and the work is done. You didn’t think so, but he did move off with a little whip encouragement. I have known horses who had left you sitting there at that point.

So Give the guy a break, and a second, less handsy ride, but I would not forego a pre-ride longe.

Then invest in a PPE, if it works.

[Lunabear1988]

@Scribbler didn’t realize I didn’t add this in but if it do buy this horse he will be going into partial training for at least two months with a trainer that specializes in OTTBs, mustangs and young Eventing horses. She is super kind, big on ground work and really does a great job producing sane, ammy friendly horses (obviously depends on the horse.) So he’d be in work with her 3 or 4 days a week. And I’d of course be taking lessons too. I don’t think he’s any greener then when I bought my 3 year old (who only had 9 rides off the track but I gave him time off and restarted him alone.) Different, but I wouldn’t say any greener so hopefully I’ll be okay. I’ll update after I ride him again.

[Lunabear1988]

@merrygoround that’s what I was thinking. I don’t really know what his experience was like at the track. I’ll never know for sure but I can give him the benefit of the doubt. I definitely want to see him on the lunge and I want to ride him before the trainer this time. If he balks on the lunge line, I’ll be more concerned. But if he goes fine and then moves of fine for me, then I think I’d be much less concerned and think it’ll be okay.

[Lunabear1988]

Part of the reason I’m asking is because I have a family member who owns a horse with major major balking issues. Thankfully doesn’t rear, just bucks and kicks out and refuses to go forward in all transitions. But he has soundness issues that I would say are the root of that.

Ottb is not anything as bad as her horse. Her horse has his ears pinned the whole time and generally not a happy face if he does get forward.

Whole nother story but that’s why the bulking caused a little knee jerk reaction in mind, even if it’s a rediculous thought.

[Scribbler]

I don’t see any major behavior red flags for an OTTB with 5 off track rides that is going to a trainer, If you like his mind and he vets sound, and you clearly know your OTTB, sounds just fine.

[Lunabear1988]

I see him again this weekend so we will see how that goes.