Horse bites and charges

[Race_Horse]

[h=2]Horse bites and charges[/h] Aug. 7, 2017, 03:38 PM
We just purchased a 9 year old thourobred mare. The lady we bought her from said she came from a race track but never raced. She had her for 4 years and trained her for dressage and trail rides. Horse has not been ridden on about 1 year. When we got the mare home she was fine for about a month and then she charged me twice. Bit my daughter once my wife twice and then Friday when I came home charged and bit me on face. I did stand my ground but did not work. We have been working on ground work and round pen. Started with English saddle and then switched to western. Doesn’t seem to matter on saddle because she gets stubborn and won’t move after 15 to 30 minutes riding in round pen. I don’t want to give up on her but I don’t want me or my family hurt. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
We have had her for 2 months. We do have a trainer helping. He comes to our house. Have discussed taking her to a COWBOY and letting him ride her for a month. We live in Peculiar MO

Tags: None

[cutter99]

It sounds to be like you need help from a professional, who can work with both you, your family and the horse. The horse has a lack of respect for you and needs to be handled by someone experienced, especially since she has come at you so aggressively.

[clanter]

after attacking my child or wife the horse would have been donated to the local lion rehab for food

http://www.bigcat.org/donate

[Abbie.S]

You need to decide, before you do anything else, if you are willing to do ALL it takes, financially, physically and emotionally, to rehab this horse.

A horse that willingly attacks a human is not one that is safe to handle by a family, and may never be. But make no mistake, no horse attacks a person because they want to. I’d guarantee you it feels pretty miserable to that mare, but that’s the best she knows how to do. It’s truly a troubled horse that has to go to that length. Sounds like this mare was way more troubled than you realized.

If you cannot honestly say you’re willing to put everything this horse needs to get straight, than you should find a new situation for her or euthanize her. That is truly out of fairness to the horse, and out of safety for you and your family. Nothing wrong with that decision: much better to do that than continue to muck with the horse and allow her to continue on this path and potentially put yourself and others in danger.

So you could find a cowboy type who can get this horse straight on how she needs to be with people, but be aware that she may never be safe for your family to handle, and she may end up being one of those (indeed, I think it would be best if she was) that needs one person consistently working and handling her so that boundaries are always crystal clear and she never has the opportunity to lapse by trying to figure out where she stands with someone else.

So first get honest with yourself, and then you might be able to go about trying to help this horse.

[Race_Horse]

Thank you
have been thinking about donating her to kcpd mounted patrol.
Sad thing is this is our first horse. We even got another horse thinking this would help

[Sparrowette]

Race Horse, Just from the little you have posted about him, it doesn’t sound like she would be suited for police work. Those horses have to be well-mannered to begin with, then are trained to deal with even more human activity.

Listen to what Abbie.S said. This horse may never be trustworthy.

If you have Netflix, watch the movie “Buck”, where they are dealing with a palomino stud colt.

PS. If you decide you want to go all the way to try to help him, first find out if she has pain issues at all, anywhere. If the horse is in pain, sending her to a cowboy before the pain issues are dealt with, will not fix much.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

OP I just want to say that I am sorry for you and for this mare.
Did you have a vet do a pre-purchase exam?

I’m guessing not.

There is a reason the horse hasn’t been ridden in a year.

This horse is probably in a lot of pain.
I wouldn’t recommend taking a horse that hasn’t been ridden in a year and riding for that long in a round pen.

A horse that hasn’t been worked in a long period of time needs to brought back slowly.

Please get a vet out as soon as you can to do a thorough examination.
Also consider putting the horse in training at a reputable stable with a trainer who has worked with Thoroughbreds.

Good luck OP.
Let us know how it goes.

[Race_Horse]

The police called back and said they do not take mares. He gave me some suggestions and a trainer that they use. I am going to give him a call and see what he can do.
We are new to horses and did not have a vet do a pre purchase. Learning the hard way i guess. We are looking forward to being good horse people.

[LilyandBaron]

As others indicate, there’s likely a physical reason the horse wasn’t ridden for a year. When a horse doesn’t do as we ask, first question is always “is it in pain?”

After that is ruled out by vet, saddle fitter, farrier and maybe chiro/massage, second question is if the horse understands. Being in the round pen and a novice horse owner makes me suspect you are inexperienced. Racehorses and dressage horses rarely do round pen stuff, and can get very annoyed by some NH stuff. Good NH takes a lot of knowledge and timing. After ruling out pain, you should seek a trainer experienced with sports like dressage to see how the horse does with someone who speaks her language. That person can help you figure out if this horse is right for you or not.

The final and third question is rarely reached, but if pain or miscommunication aren’t at fault, horses can be bad at times. Some just need a trainer to work them past it, others, and very few, are mentally ill and truly dangerous, and euthanasia is best option.

I suspect pain and your inexperience are both at play. Be safe, be honest, and either invest in vet and training or sell horse but be up front, or euthanize so horse doesn’t suffer or someone else get hurt worse. And good luck, very glad you are asking for help, and hoping for the best outcome for all involved.

[Sparrowette]

@Race Horse

The police called back and said they do not take mares. He gave me some suggestions and a trainer that they use. I am going to give him a call and see what he can do.
We are new to horses and did not have a vet do a pre purchase. Learning the hard way i guess. We are looking forward to being good horse people.

Don’t be too hard on yourself. Things happen. And with horses, they are big, so the things that happen tend to be bigger, too.

[CHT]

The horses I have seen that are agressive are either:

1. Handled so poorly they are confused as heck by people. (given conflicting signals - does not mean abuse)
2. In pain/discomfort that has been ignored and forced to work through it.

I would be careful just sending to a “cowboy”: what is coming to my mind is that the horse will be worked into submission. The problem with this tactic (rather than fixing the root of the issue) is that the submission will only last so long before the original issues come to a head again.

I agree that this sounds like a horse that is absolutely miserable.

[Bartleby]

I’m in Raymore and do have a few local contacts who would be able to evaluate the situation and shoot straight with you about what needs to happen for all involved. If you’re interested give me a PM.

[Guilherme]

You have a 1000 pound, dangerous animal on your hands. Do you have papers for this horse? If not you’ve got a dangerous horse whose market value is equal to what she’d bring at auction. My guess is your medical expenses have already exceeded her value. Every dollar you put into training, vetting, or anything else is a dollar you won’t have if she does not respond positively to the training. So, channeling Dirty Harry Callaghan: Do you feel lucky?

From what you’ve written you’d be well off to send her to the can. I’ve only done that once in 30 years (and dozens of horses) but I did it intending that it happen. That mare was a drop dead gorgeous granddaughter of Midnight Sun (the dominant Walking Horse sire in the last half of the 20th Century) who had a mouth of bronze, sides of iron, and a tendency to try and get rid of her rider. Took her in trade on another horse. We owned her less than a week. I have no regrets for that decision.

Remember that you, as the owner, are responsible for what she does. If she hurts a non-family member you could be in deep kimchi because you are on notice of her aggressive and dangerous behavior. A good lawyer could spin that from negligence to gross negligence or even willful, wanton, and reckless misconduct. That last one can mean punitive damages that are not covered by insurance. Again, do you feel lucky?

Sometimes a sharp knife cuts the quickest and hurts the least.

G.

[RedHorses]

Aggression in mares can be a hormone issue.

Stopping and refusing to go on after a short period under saddle can be a horse trying to be good under a saddle that is causing significant pain. A less willing horse pulls out the buck card.

Significant pain whenever the horse is worked can result in a horse attempting to protect itself from being ridden - aggression on the ground would be one example. Horses have very strong associative memories and if C always follows B which always follows A the horse can act up at point A in order to avoid point C.

I knew a mare who didn’t like being ridden by her owner. The owner always had to ask someone else to catch her. One day a person caught her, turned around and handed off the lead rope to the owner two steps away. That person could not get close to the mare for a couple of weeks afterwards.

I hope the issue is as simple as bad saddle fit, but be prepared that it may be something worse and the mare will never be suitable for your family. That degree of aggression is unusual in horses.

I hope your second horse was a better buy.

[RedHorses]

Since CoTH refuses to let me edit :mad:

Aggression is one protection tactic, but simple avoidance of being caught is a far more typical equine response to riding pain.

[Rackonteur]

Since looks and tones of voice are impossible to get across on a website, please take this as it is meant, kindly and with sympathy.

People new to horses should start out, not by buying a horse, but by finding a good lesson barn and taking lessons with the trainer. Then, after a number of lessons not only on riding but on horsemanship (which includes horse care), let the trainer recommend a suitable horse. Chances are he/she will already have one in mind. You will get a been-there-done-that horse that will be suitable for you and your family, and the horse will get a good home (preferably as a boarder at the same lesson barn).

Thoroughbreds are great horses but an off-track Thoroughbred would not be my recommendation for a first horse for anyone.

[Guilherme]

@Rackonteur

Since looks and tones of voice are impossible to get across on a website, please take this as it is meant, kindly and with sympathy.

People new to horses should start out, not by buying a horse, but by finding a good lesson barn and taking lessons with the trainer. Then, after a number of lessons not only on riding but on horsemanship (which includes horse care), let the trainer recommend a suitable horse. Chances are he/she will already have one in mind. You will get a been-there-done-that horse that will be suitable for you and your family, and the horse will get a good home (preferably as a boarder at the same lesson barn).

Thoroughbreds are great horses but an off-track Thoroughbred would not be my recommendation for a first horse for anyone.

Outstanding advice. Game, set, and match.

G.

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

As you can see from the responses, there are any number of reasons why this could be happening - lack of respect for you, she feels you are invading her space, and most importantly, pain.

Have you contacted the former owner to discuss this issue? I would want to know why she hasn’t been ridden for the past year, and if this behavior was ever seen in her - and any past medical conditions she’d had.

Some mares can be absolute witches at certain points in their cycle - I rode a pony mare once that was a saint when not in heat, but when she was, all bets were off. They even considered spaying her, and eventually put her on Regumate. It helped, but not a lot.

This could also be pain related - stifles, hocks, kissing spine, ? I would be interested to know how she acts when you are just handling her - grooming, etc. Do you only catch her to ride her? If so, like someone else said, she may be anticipating the pain and doing the only thing she knows to do to avoid it.

Or she could simply, truly, mean to hurt you. I was nearly killed by such a horse. He tried to run me down not once, but twice. And he MEANT to do it.

Either way - I think I would load the mare up, take her back to the former owner, and consider it done. It is probably beyond your ability to fix.

[sdlbredfan]

I also live not far from where you are. I have a few questions, and knowing the answers might help us give you more or better advice.
1)Which Veterinarian have you been using? Or, have you had a Vet thoroughly examine this horse yet? If not, do that right away, If you do not have a Vet yet, 2 of the best in the area close to you are Wilhite & Frees (in Peculiar) http://www.wilhiteandfrees.com/
and Dr. Wagner. http://wagnerhorsedoc.com/

2. Is this horse at your home,or at a boarding stable? If at a stable, is this a ‘self care’ place, or is there an experienced trainer available to you. You definitely need both Veterinary and trainer help.

3. Do not try to donate this horse anywhere. If this problem cannot be resolved, you need to humanely euthanize the horse. Such dangerous behavior is not tolerable, meaning shame on whoever sold this horse to you, because they should not have passed the buck. Now that you own the mare, you either need to fix the problem, or end the animal’s life humanely BEFORE IT KILLS A HUMAN.

If euthanasia is recommended by the Vet, they will probably want to send brain tissue off for lab tests. Unfortunately, of the 3 physical causes that are most likely to cause this behavior (hormonal imbalance due to ovarian cysts, brain tumor or even rabies), they are indeed physical issues, not ‘training’ issues per se. You need to find out what a Vet says. Your original post did not even mention a Vet, but you need one ASAP.

[sdlbredfan]

@clanter

after attacking my child or wife the horse would have been donated to the local lion rehab for food

http://www.bigcat.org/donate

Not if the horse has rabies, which actually is a possibility, sad to say. I hope not, but a complete Veterinary workup is way more important right now than any ‘cowboy’ or other type of trainer.