Horse bolting inconsistently while being led....need advice

yes we have scoped for ulcers-see below to my other comment. I plan to look at that again but he is on supplements for his gut including hind and magnesium etc. I do a trace mineral panel on my horses and adjust supplements based on that and what our hay analysis comes back as. I also checked him for other issues metabolic, epm etc. I do think he is very sensitive to feeling “off” in any sense which is why I want to get the neck injected and we will be starting adequan. I do everything I can to make sure my horses feel the best they can.

Something I’m seeing again and again in your posts are attempts at excusing his behavior due to “past trauma”.

Stop that.

Your horse is living in the here and now. While past events may explain where this started, it’s not an excuse as to why it’s happening today. In order to fix it, you need to erase the “ohh he’s traumatized” mentality from your head.

Today - he is not permitted to bolt. Today - he is not permitted to check out and make me a low priority.

You can’t give much deep thought into the “past trauma.” What happens TODAY is what matters in establishing new behaviors.

Thank you and yes I agree and it sucks that his foundation and people have not been fair and consistent with him. I am doing my best to change that direction for him in life and I have made a commitment to him to make sure he never gets in the wrong hands again. It is def evident to see the difference between him and my mare who I Got the day she turned 4 and how her foundation is so solid and we have the most amazing bond. She trusts me completely and always has. I am just going to keep going with him and eventually my hope is to gain his trust and confidence as well as respect.

I am not excusing his behavior but I am looking at where it is coming from and trying to understand him today. What has happened in his past shaped who he is today. I disagree that its not a reason as to why its happening today. it is a learned behavior he has gotten away with before and I am trying to fix it and not let it happen today.

My homebred developed a major bolting in hand problem in what sounds like a similar situation— bad handlers at a boarding barn created a problem that snowballed. This happened when she was a long yearling. It haunted us for years and even came up under saddle.

Even now that she is 19 years of age, the problem isn’t totally gone. It’s rare that she bolts anymore, maybe once every couple of years, but she hasn’t forgotten she can do it. Every time I think it’s totally behind us, she make sure to humble me.

I don’t have a lot of advice, mostly commiseration because this is really tough to deal with. It sounds like you already know what I’m going to say:
-make sure he isn’t physically hurting
-prioritize building your relationship on the ground
-find a way to make sure he can never, ever “win” and get away from you

That last part is tough and inevitably you’ll fail from time to time. For my mare, a really good, long, leather shank with a 36” stud chain was effective most of the time. So she wore that every time she was led. I also always carried a whip because her MO is to pop her left shoulder into you to increase her leverage. She still wears her chain shank in “high stress” situations, though it’s been many years since she needed it 100% of the time. What I often do now is proactively put two shanks on her in trigger situations- her regular lead rope and the chain, so I don’t accidentally use the chain and punish her except when completely necessary (my mare holds grudges).

Unfortunately, it sounds like your guy may be beyond even the best leather chain shank at this point, so you may need something like a chifney. Whatever you use, I found I needed to always have it until trust was restored, but I also needed to be very judicious to only activate it when absolutely necessary.

The other day I took my mare to a new barn for a ride (often a trigger for her) and I forgot to put her chain shank back on her after we unloaded. I led her around a new place in just a halter and cotton rope. She was perfectly fine. It was not lost on me how far she has finally come and what a long journey it has been to get to that point.

Thank you and yes he def seems to hold a grudge too which is why I try to not immediately go to pull on his chain and have thought about using two lead ropes. The interesting thing is that he is actually better in new situations basically where he hasnt established a safe place (at least that is something that seems to be the case with him but I have only had him less than a year). I wish I could say that I know every time when he will do it but sometimes he will lift his hea high to look at something and not do it and other times he will lift his head and bolt or just turn and bolt away. I literally dont have much warning. So I try my best to get him to focus on me (breaking it up with engaging and moving the hind end each direction, pause and back up etc) I also use treats for good behavior and staying focused on me. I can usually tell how checked out he is if he takes the treat and either just holds it in his mouth or eats it so fast its like he cant get enough-I try to use those clues as to what my next steps are but again its not consistent with him which makes this so hard. I wish it was straightforward in regards to what he is either spooking at or afraid of.

You will fail if you continue to make excuses.

It’s black and white. It’s unacceptable for him to be bolting from people. I do not care why he did it in the past. It is NOT acceptable.

I never said it was acceptable and you can leave and stop commenting. you are not offering any actual advice just being rude. bye!

You had a well behaved horse, and you’re blaming a barn owner for creating a problem. A horse SHOULD stop abruptly when you stop.

You left the barn where the BO was (supposedly, you didn’t witness) roughing him up, and then 3 months later he’s started bolting.

I need to you get introspective here, and figure out what “GREEN LIGHT” you’ve given him to do this.

Also - how many barns have you moved this horse to in less than a year? Based on your first post, it’s at least 3, maybe more.

I hear you. My mare is a little different in the sense that sometimes she runs back to her herd, but mainly when she bolts, she runs around like a maniac and throws a temper tantrum until she decides she is over it. She has run headlong into traffic. She has run off steep banks and fallen. It’s like her self preservation goes out the window until she regains her brain. Sometimes I swear she has 9 lives.

I don’t know every time she will do it, either. Boy, wouldn’t that be easy? That’s why at first, you have to be ready and “armed” for a potential bolt every single time you lead. They cannot win. Unfortunately they will win, but every time they do, it resets the clock.

I did learn to recognize the signs it was coming and eventually her bolting was reduced to “big” trigger situations. That doesn’t mean it can never happen other times anymore. Her last bolt was maybe 2 years ago being led in for dinner at feeding time like she does twice a day every day— seriously, no excuse for that. But if I had a time machine, I also know I could have prevented that last bolt and it was 99% my fault. Honestly, it was mostly her reminding me she can still bolt if I’m going to be a crappy partner and not hold up my end of the bargain.

I am not blaming a barn owner for creating a problem I am saying that until I had a friend see what happened (it was never in front of me but my horse def was scared of him) I have noticed a change in his behavior. I have moved 3 times because we were on a wait list for a quality barn (it is terrible here to find good safe barns with proper footing and feed). I think this is a trick he has had before and its showing up now. The person I bought him from didnt have him long (he was too green for her and she panic bought him when her horse died abruptly) His past is a bit shady in terms of where he was and for how long etc. Multiple trainers and cowboys who have met him agree this is not a new trick.

Yes thats exactly what my trainer said-restarting the clock and that we really need to “win” for at least a year to see if we can in a sense reset the brain reaction. I am not saying it will ever go away either but I need him to not have that as a his first go to response. Again I understand the need to get away when panicked (I have panic attacks and want to run out of crowded places haha) but I cant exactly tell my horse o take calming breaths or pop an ativan haha. I also really try to find humor in these kind of situations or I will go crazy!

Whatever his history, you and the barn staff need control to prevent him from being successful. A couple of options were mentioned.
This is a chiffney bit. https://www.bigdweb.com/chifney-lead-bit-straight-mouth?gad_source=4&gclid=CjwKCAjw8diwBhAbEiwA7i_sJTd9SFsurF6Yg6eXXLSBR3V3MyBBRG7M5o8oAJoPX2SzGzEkE-vTxBoC4J4QAvD_BwE

The iron nosepiece is similar but does not go through the mouth.

You might consider having him led with one of these always. (For a long time for the behavior to extinguish) It seems like they are less likely to be abused by other handlers than chains and have more lateral control.

yes the plan is only myself and my trainer will handle him as he will just live in his pasture and not come in. And yes we are consistently using the chain in the mouth right now but will look into the other options as well.

Someone taught him to lead nicely somewhere in the middle, because the problem didn’t crop up for several months after you owned him.

The scared former-owner wasn’t likely the one who taught him to lead nice - was he with a cowboy when you bought him?

If you had [anyone] pick the horse that bears down and bolts uncontrollably, or the one who walks behind you and stops abruptly when the handler stops, which one would get chosen?

I bet he had some serious consequences for acting like a turd while leading in his past - which led to him being a decent citizen for at least the first few months you owned him. Now, despite all the cookies and liberty training you have offered him, he has relearned this extremely dangerous habit.

In situations like this, I can nearly guarantee that the bolt is the last thing he’s learned. First, it’s crowding you a little. Next it’s not stopping when you stop. Next, it’s moving towards you in the crossties. Or giving you a shove with their head.

Horses don’t go from “fine to lead” to “established bolting problem” overnight. This was a long time coming, he’s been testing you and you’ve not passed.

Go all the way back to the beginning and be strict about every single step he takes with you when he’s on a line. His feet go where you tell them to, when. Anywhere else must have some sort of consequence.

Some horses you can be a little lax with and there’s no big issue. Others, turn into your guy - inch --> mile.

actually it sounds like he was passed around a lot and maybe only with people for a month or two before I got him which would explain why he didnt have these behaviors since in new situations he doesnt do it. Also he doesnt move towards me in the crossties, he doesnt crowd me, he doesnt shove me with his head, and he typically stops when I stop when walking, which is why I am trying to explain how this behavior seems odd to me. He also is usually very polite but he can just check out at times with no warning (I am trying my best to figure out what leads up to it and pick up on things but since it has been so inconsistent I havent yet). He was not with a cowboy when I got him he was with a trainer in florida but she only had him a month or so. Again there isnt a lot of straight info on his past. I am also not a push over and expect my horses to act accordingly which is why my mare is well behaved who I have for 17 years. The first time it happened it was on the lunge line which he has done without issues with me prior. It was not while being led.

Do you have a link to the iron nosepiece as well I am not finding it when I search those words but maybe its not called that?

Another thing you can try when leading is using a separate, second lariat rope as a halter/lead rope combo. They are thin and stiff and will put a bite in if he tries to take off. Or, what kind of halter are you using? A rope halter with noseband knots might get his attention better than a nylon with a chain lead rope. Seems like he’s decided the chain doesn’t hurt, so switching up his equipment may be enough to get his attention.

If you can’t find that, a proper lunging cavesson will have the same effect.

It sounds like he wasn’t doing this while in a program, so that may be what he needs. How often is he getting worked?