Horse bolting inconsistently while being led....need advice

[Texarkana]

@endlessclimb

Horses don’t go from “fine to lead” to “established bolting problem” overnight. This was a long time coming, he’s been testing you and you’ve not passed.

I agree but also kind of disagree only because once they learn bolting is an option, it can snowball pretty quickly.

I know with my horse, my BO’s boyfriend was scared of her. She knew how to lead, but she was a young, exuberant horse being led by someone who couldn’t handle her. I remember the first time she bolted and got away from me and me venting to a fellow boarder friend that I felt like such a failure. My friend goes, “well you know she does it to the boyfriend every day, right?” NO I HAD NO IDEA that was happening.

So yeah, I failed the test… but would the problem even have started in the first place if the boyfriend hadn’t failed so miserably first? I honestly don’t think it would have ever become a tool in her toolbox had she not learned it. But regardless, I had to improve myself a lot to “fix” it and it will never truly be “fixed,” just managed.

[staciemac13]

He is in a program now getting 5 days a week hard work. And when I first got him he was not in a program but I did ride a lot-but we were also able to go on trails because he wasnt “herd bound” so not sure how fast they can become herd bound typically. And yes I agree he needs consistent work but again under saddle is not the issue. I can jump him and ride and he doesnt bolt (only once did he do this at the last place when he spooked but I stopped him with one rein and went back to work-we had been on a loose rein walk break)

[staciemac13]

He is currently in a nylon one so I can thread the chain through. I have used a rope halter a few times when doing other things and it hasnt stopped him but again I honestly think that pain just makes him want to run away more. Not that that is acceptable but when I look back on each issue and how he responds in general that is my thought

[endlessclimb]

Spook/bolts are different than in hand bolts that result in him being with his friends.

Do you think a bit/bridle would stop him?

And too damn bad about the pain, for him. Eventually you will find something that is more important than his friends. If it makes it seem like he doubles down right now, he’s likely just trying to get “through” faster. It doesn’t mean you go to something more mild, you need to go to something that made it VERY not worth trying to start with.

Imagine a horse who has learned to push through electric fences. They don’t walk through, they run - any smart animal will. The only way to stop it is to make the fence SO HOT that even running is no longer worth it.

[endlessclimb]

I hear you - there was a horse at the last place I boarded that learned this, because the owner was a froo froo who thought he should be able to go inside if he felt like it. He also said we were not allowed to use a chain on him.

Guess what? Horse no longer got turned out because no way were we going to ask the staff to deal with it.

[staciemac13]

he has done it while being in the bridle walking up to the indoor-that is actually how this started again last week. WE were walking up for a lesson and he had his bridle on (like I normally do walking up to the indoor). The only difference is that day he was more up and had a loose poop while getting tacked up which my trainer and I both noticed and wonder if the spring grass was messing with his gut. Like I said before he seems to be very semsitive when he is not feeling well or his normal self. It also didnt help that all the horses were being on edge in the paddock and running around (it was also april fools so I blame that haha). To be fair we were not walking him on high alert as he had been great since moving to this new place so when he went to bite the grass we pulled his head up and then he took off. Thus creating an issue that day that we could not win. The next day we did the mouth chain and he was perfect and didnt need it and I had my lesson. The rest of the week he was great no testing and did all my normal rides. Then sunday the weather was bad and he did it with me walking up to the indoor again but I had the chain in his mouth. I ended up winning this day but by breaking it up and moving his feet more. I also went slightly to the left of the normal path and changed his focus so I was happy with the win that day.We also notice that it happens when we yank on his head which is why we have thought the neck pain may also be causing some of this reaction when it comes out of the blue.

[jvanrens]

Have you tried a lip chain? A whole lot better at getting their attention than putting the chain through their mouth IME. With some horses it works like a twitch, and they relax with mild pressure.

[staciemac13]

no we havent as it seems hard to keep it in place

[PamnReba]

The lariat rope I mentioned would be your backup for control and restraint on the days you don’t win, but may not be practical if he doesn’t do it more frequently. Good job on getting him back to you the one time you were able to anticipate it, the redirection of his energy is actually what it’s all about in the long run. If you can do it beforehand you’re going to have more wins, so maybe incorporate that into your leading routine, even if he’s not giving you signals that all is not right in his world? Just do random things while walking to make sure his attention is where it should be - like halt, back up, do turns on the forehand and hindquarter yields - anything to break up or interrupt the routine.

[jvanrens]

@staciemac13

no we havent as it seems hard to keep it in place

It can take some practice to get the hang of it.

[staciemac13]

yes thank you that is my plan and I am committed to making this work and not giving up. He is 99% great and very sweet. but that 1% is rough haha

[IPEsq]

On the subject of control, not every horse respects a rope halter I these situations. I owned one of those. Even with extra knots or stiff rope. It was pretty good for riding when he got weird about bit contact, and a great makeshift longeing caveson, but for his wild moments? No way. And unfortunately he had a lot of anxiety and a lot of injuries and layups and got high strung when not in work. Best thing was the stud chain around the nose and crossed under the jaw. In most situations a normal nose chain was good. But if the wind was howling or something exciting going on, always also under the jaw. Hardly had to apply pressure with it and it kept his feet on the ground. I would routinely use 2 leads with him also when I wasn’t quite sure how the day was going to go. No need to put any pressure on the chain if he was being relaxed. A normal lead and the chain. Both very long. Wear gloves.

[OverandOnward]

OP, try to figure out if there is something you can do that hits his reset on bolting. This takes time and a lot of observation.

If you can figure out when the bolt is coming, or maybe just assume that it’s always coming, you can start to figure out what will divert the bolt impulse to not happen after all.

There could be an internal horsey time limit before he starts becoming agitated. Or a particular environment or geography. Or a certain distance from the happy security place (a distance trigger is very common with barn & herd sour horses.).

Then it is what will get him to reset before he has the reaction. This can be tricky to suss, trial and error. There can be more than one trigger. Be patient and forgiving with yourself as you explore.

My non-tying horse (who did learn to tie, with safety qualifications) was spooky as hell, in addition. I gradually realized that these problems were coming from the same place.

It was like he had a constant anxiety ticker, that started on low, and gradually built up to high, until it came to the point where he had to have a release. Boom, pull back on halter and thrash, or under saddle have a giant spook.

I learned how to read the ticker, and what would get him to distract and reset the ticker time. As he got better and better, basically the ticker time was lengthening.

The reaction was coming. But the new habit was to finish what we are doing and move on, before the timed explosion. The horse came to expect this as well. That helped to gradually lengthen the time before explosion. Except that you couldn’t push the time limit by very much, at any given moment.

A Trainer said to me once during a ring lesson “just avoid those standards since that is where he spooks and we don’t have time to deal with it right now”. I replied, “he’s not spooking at the standards, he’s spooking because it is time to spook”.

The horse was going to spook at something, if there wasn’t a change in what we were doing that would hit the reset button. It worked the same with being tied. We worked up to standing tied for 20 minutes on a blocker tie, then we had to have a little walk as a reset. It really was not a big deal and was well worth it for this horse.

I learned how to read the countdown clock, and make a reset before the explosion came.

But this horse was still a special case all of his life, because as easy as it was for me to handle him (he became so easy after he learned to stand without being tied !! ) , other people just could not clue in to the magic formula, all in a minute. They had to relearned some of their default horse handling.

I had to do my best to teach the few people who sometimes groomed and rode him how to read and reset the countdown clock. And I had to recognize which people were just never going to clue in (a local vet tech, mostly!).

[fivestrideline]

@endlessclimb

And too damn bad about the pain, for him.

I just want to reiterate this, along with the “it doesn’t matter what past trauma he had”.

It is good to take these things into account - but at a certain point it doesn’t matter, you have to fix the behavior (or manage it). You can baby a horse through pain and give them the benefit of the doubt for things that don’t put the handler, horse, or other horses into immediate danger. At the end of the day the horse has to be handled on the ground No Matter What. They can express discomfort, but bolting away from handlers is unacceptable.

Do what you have to in order to make getting away borderline impossible - that’s the first step. Lip chain, rawhide bridle, long rope and gloves, whatever.

Bolting horses that have learned they can get away with it are not easy to fix, you have my sympathy on that!

[fivestrideline]

@IPEsq

Best thing was the stud chain around the nose and crossed under the jaw

This is how I use a chain almost always. Over the nose (usually wrapped around the nosepiece once or twice), through the offside lower ring, under the jaw and clipped to the near side upper ring. You get the most power that way, and can lift or pull the head down.

OP if you’re using a chain now just clipped to the lower rings or even up to the outside upper ring, try a new configuration and/or the lip chain. Wear gloves, use a long line, and honestly wear a helmet too!

[staciemac13]

Yes I agree that I need to fix the behavior I wasnt discounting that-what I Was saying is that it has been so inconsistent that it throws me for a loop. I am doing everything I can right now to prevent it (since it just started up again last week). I will keep trying different configurations as well. I do use gloves and use a longer line.

[Alterration]

I rehabbed a big older KWPN that came with this problem on the longe line and in hand.

I put a chain over his nose, wrapped so I wouldn’t actually break his nasal bone, and ran the longe line behind my back, kind of under my butt. When the horse pushed his shoulder into the longe line to get away, I pulled down hard with all of my weight. Spun him around and nearly took him off his feet.

Was it dramatic? Yes. We needed to get his attention in a big way. Was he damaged? No. Just his pride.

He also had a habit of being pushy on the ground. Fixed that by making sure he didn’t move a step unless I told him he could. He HAD to think I was the one in control of his feet at all times. And I walk slow, so he had to adjust. He did try to tank off a few times and I had to be absolutely ready to set him on his hind end quickly.

Seems harsh, but that horse was headed to the knacker otherwise, so I think having to follow strict rules for his interactions with humans was a much better deal. He eventually got good enough that other people could handle him without issue but I would never put him with someone that would let him push the boundaries. Some horses just need really tight human interactions. Not tight ropes, just solid timing and boundaries.

[OverandOnward]

By the way, with my horse’s problematic behavior, punishment was not only ineffective, but actually made my horse’s problem worse. Punishment added to the anxiety factor.

I did a lot of research and learning on positive training. That worked. It was a different mindset, but it worked when everything else utterly failed.

Punishing the horse when he failed did not address the underlying behavior, which was ultimately driven by instinct. Punishment made it worse, not better.

A battle of wills with a horse becomes a strength contest. Guess who wins. We have to teach from wisdom. It is far more successful.

Positive training and learning what were the real triggers, and working from there, got results.

The horse has to see it is a better deal to do it our way. We may have our ways of putting on pressure, and blocking other avenues. But in the end the horse has to want what we want.

Just for what it is worth from my experience.

[staciemac13]

yes this is what I feel with my horse too.

[PamnReba]

Here’s a video of Ryan Rose working with a colt with just a lariat - about 10:51 he shows how to use it as a halter (in the event you’re not sure how it would work):

Could I Start this Colt using only a Lariat Rope?

You can buy a lariat rope, like this one, anywhere. And yes, DEFINITELY have gloves on if you decide to give this a try, and make sure you don’t get your hand or fingers caught in any loops if he does bolt with it on. Hold the lead part of it in a figure eight instead. Many a cowboy has lost a finger to a rope pop.