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Horse buckling when backed up

Off Course
#1

Here’s a long shot because I’m not sure how to describe it and not quite sure what it all means…in addition to my “day job” I also teach lessons once a week at a local farm…I teach hunt seat lessons and beginner western lessons.

One of the girls owns a 15 year old TB who they bought for her this spring. Previous trainer found them this steed and he’s ended up with some issues on the ground that new owners were never aware of. (Inexperienced horse owners who fully trusted trainer meanwhile trainer was pocketing commission with seller as well.)

Anyways, trainer has since then moved on but we are now left with this horse with very ill ground manners. His rider is 13 and small and he is 17.1, he gets very pushy and she has a hard time with him. He is slightly cinchy in the aisle but I think it’s more a game because he’s never mellow dramatic about it if I am the one girthing him.

He is also very pushy and drags her around when walking to the arena. I’ve led him over for her for her last few lessons and twice now when he’s tried to drag me and I shanked him and backed him up he rounds his back, groans really loud and acts like he’s going to buckle and collapse. The first time I thought it was weird but then it happened a second time when I went to back him up. Any ideas on what would cause something like that?

#2

Get the Vet out. There is something majorly wrong. Once any physical issues have been diagnosed and treated, some ground manners lessons should be next on the agenda. The ground manners and the problems backing are probably not related, but any physical issues need to be treated sooner rather than later.

#3

First thoughts, considering the area you’re in, are Lyme and/or EPM.

Regardless, it’s a vet call. Good luck!

#4

Call the vet. It could be a sore back which could be caused by:

  1. Sore Hocks
  2. Saddle fit
  3. Muscle myopathy (pssm,Epsom,hypp)
  4. Sore Heels
  5. Lyme
  6. Bilateral slight lameness up front.

I’m sure there are other causes, those are the ones I’ve had to deal with.

Best of luck!

#5

Thanks for the ideas guys! He’s absolutely sound under saddle, and only does it once…I could back him up again a few times with no problem.

#6

Do ** not * shrug this off, which it sounds as if you are doing. Consider this a ‘horsemanship’ lesson for your young student also. When in doubt, get the Vet out.

If this is the onset or a symptom of a neuro problem, it is a safety issue also. Good luck, and please keep us posted on what the Vet says.

#7

[QUOTE=TheHunterKid90;7928833]
Here’s a long shot because I’m not sure how to describe it and not quite sure what it all means…in addition to my “day job” I also teach lessons once a week at a local farm…I teach hunt seat lessons and beginner western lessons.

One of the girls owns a 15 year old TB who they bought for her this spring. Previous trainer found them this steed and he’s ended up with some issues on the ground that new owners were never aware of. (Inexperienced horse owners who fully trusted trainer meanwhile trainer was pocketing commission with seller as well.)

Anyways, trainer has since then moved on but we are now left with this horse with very ill ground manners. His rider is 13 and small and he is 17.1, he gets very pushy and she has a hard time with him. He is slightly cinchy in the aisle but I think it’s more a game because he’s never mellow dramatic about it if I am the one girthing him.

He is also very pushy and drags her around when walking to the arena. I’ve led him over for her for her last few lessons and twice now when he’s tried to drag me and I shanked him and backed him up he rounds his back, groans really loud and acts like he’s going to buckle and collapse. The first time I thought it was weird but then it happened a second time when I went to back him up. Any ideas on what would cause something like that?[/QUOTE]

Could also be stifle. But is this a problem or isn’t it? I don’t understand this comment.

#8

[QUOTE=TheHunterKid90;7928919]
Thanks for the ideas guys! He’s absolutely sound under saddle, and only does it once…I could back him up again a few times with no problem.[/QUOTE]

Translation - I don’t want to have the vet out because that will cost money.

#9

[QUOTE=sdlbredfan;7928982]
Do ** not * shrug this off, which it sounds as if you are doing. Consider this a ‘horsemanship’ lesson for your young student also. When in doubt, get the Vet out.

If this is the onset or a symptom of a neuro problem, it is a safety issue also. Good luck, and please keep us posted on what the Vet says.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the dig but I am indeed NOT “shrugging this off”…I have already been in contact with the students grandmother who is also the barn owner. The kid takes one lesson a week and therefore ends up riding one day a week. She won’t be on the horse until next Saturday when I walk in the barn. That’s plenty of time in the meantime for their vet to come out and look at him. Just wanted a little back up/ideas about what could potentially be wrong instead of oh hey, something’s wrong with your horse…not sure what though.

#10

[QUOTE=rizzodm;7929004]
Translation - I don’t want to have the vet out because that will cost money.[/QUOTE]

Not my vet bill so no actually, I would rather do what is right by the horse, BUT refer to my post above this…it’s easier to tell an inexperienced owner there’s yet another problem with your horse when you have some legitimate ideas on what is wrong…

#11

It should be enough to tell these people that you have witnessed behavior that indicates the horse is in pain, and it needs to be evaluated by a vet.
The disrespectful ground manners is all just a sidebar issue and should not be part of this conversation. What you described when he is asked to back is not normal or behavioral. If you can, get someone to video it, in case you can’t reproduce it in front of the vet.

#12

I would think possibly shivers also…

#13

Sound does not equal not in pain.

There could be a host of other issues going on.

#14

[QUOTE=islgrl;7929582]
I would think possibly shivers also…[/QUOTE]

Excellent catch

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers/home.html

The most characteristic signs of shivers occur when an attempt is made to move the horse backwards. Occasionally, a horse will exhibit signs if made to move over suddenly in the stall or box. Shivering may also be seen on lifting or attempting to lift a hind foot, or when the horse is being shod, especially when the foot is hammered during shoeing.

In the early stages, the owner notices that the horse snatches up the hind limbs when they are being picked up to clean the feet or to be shod. The condition may progress so that the horse becomes impossible to shoe. Even in well-developed shivering cases, signs may not be seen when the horse is standing still. When the horse is moved forwards there may be no signs, or the signs may be restricted to the first two or three steps. In advanced cases, the affected animal may be unable to move backward more than a few paces, and sometimes this cannot be performed at all.

Unfortunately, the prognosis for shivers is not good.

Other possibilities are stringhalt or PSSM.

#15

I was going to chime in with shivers also.

Had a mare in training that did that exact thing… She would kind of bunch up when asked to back and then run backwards. She was diagnosed with shivers later on and retired from riding.

#16

Third on the shivers. There was a pretty comprehensive article on this in the January issue of Equus; you might want to get a copy!

One thing that struck me was that the majority of horses with Shivers were geldings over 17 hands; apparently size (and gender) is a risk factor. The article was not all doom and gloom–there are horses who can function with the condition–but it’s not “fixable”, and will only get worse with time…There are a few therapies that can be tried that might help forestall the inevitable, but no cure.

Keep us posted!

#17

I was coming in with shivers too- just from the title- and was expecting in the description of the newbie with the difficult horse- hoof picking was going to be in the list of misbehaviors. Since it wasn’t, I thought maybe my armchair vet degree may have jumped the gun.

#18

At this point my vet thinks a pinched nerve in his neck or back. He says not neurological because it isn’t consistent and we can’t reproduce it on command. We will have him out on Saturday for a hopefully official diagnosis.

#19

I like the optimism, but unfortunately, inconsistency of symptoms does not rule shivers out at all. In fact, it seems more to reinforce the possibility. I truly hope that’s not the case though.

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers/home.html

What are the signs of shivers?

The clinical spectrum of shivers in horses is very variable in the degree or manifestation of signs. The diagnosis of a characteristic case of shivers seldom presents a problem, however the signs of shivers may be intermittent, occasional, or latent and very difficult to confirm. Shivers may be extremely difficult to detect in the early stages, and careful observation may be required before the diagnosis can be made.

#20

[QUOTE=TheHunterKid90;7930602]
At this point my vet thinks a pinched nerve in his neck or back. He says not neurological because it isn’t consistent and we can’t reproduce it on command. We will have him out on Saturday for a hopefully official diagnosis.[/QUOTE]

Their vet isn’t going out? If it was my horse, I’d want my own vet to look at him. My own vet knows the history of my horse. Also, any other vet would likely be breaching a code of conduct in some way seeing another vet’s patient. I don’t know about what the regulations are where you live but where I am, another vet only gets involved if the client severs the client/vet relationship or is a referral.

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