Horse can’t accept contact without fussing

Hoping I can possibly get some advice on my current situation with my horse because both my trainer and I are truly at a loss of what to do anymore.

I have a 9 year old Thoroughbred who absolutely cannot hold a frame and struggles so badly to accept contact with the bit. When he does, he constantly yanks and jerks his head around. For the past year we have gone back to the complete basics and tried to work through it hoping that he would eventually learn to accept the bit. We finally got him using the rest of his body the way he should be except the head just wants to be in giraffe mode 24/7. Please don’t tell me that the head will follow once the hind end is engaged, usually with any other horse I absolutely agree but this horse is not like any other at all. We’ve tried several different bits like the loose ring NS Turtle Top, Nathe, a straight bar rubber pelham. We’ve also discovered he’s clearly super sensitive because he’s gotten several different sores from the rubber type bits. We lunge him in either a pessoa rig or side reins and he does seem to fight less and will actually submit to those with minimal yanking. I have reason to believe this is probably something pain related, but I’ve had his teeth checked multiple times and had xrays done by my vet with nothing to show. We also ruled out kissing spine or any problem relating to the poll as we did a temporary nerve block to see if there was any change, which there wasn’t.

It’s truly like nothing you’ve seen before and it’s like nobody can find an answer. I’m pretty sure we have tried absolutely everything in the book at this point. I’ve done so much research and can’t find anybody having an issue quite like this. This is genuinely the most frustrating thing to deal with and I feel like I’m completely alone in this. I just want to help my horse.

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Where were these sores? Have you checked the inside of the corners of the mouth? My mare would get cracks there from most bits and ended up happiest in a Myler or leather bit when needed, with a hackamore used the rest of the time.

How does your horse react to going bitless?

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He gets them on the corners of his mouth and on his tongue, I put corona on the corners of his mouth every time we use any of the rubber bits. We rode him in a hackamore for several weeks to allow those to heal, he just gets too heavy in the hand with it to have an actual proper flat ride. I do trot sets and hack with the hackamore though. I have been super curious about trying a leather bit and am totally willing to try

I have a mare with a very fussy mouth. Low palate and thick tongue. She went ok in a HS Duo, but I finally tried a Fager titanium bit and she really is so much happier. Might be worth a try?

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My equine dentist pointed out to me that my mare’s palate is extremely low so she cannot accept any bit thicker than 12mm. Huge change since I fixed that issue.

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Trouble with contact can signal discomfort. Sounds like you’ve considered this and have checked some areas but maybe haven’t found what the culprit is, if there is a physical component. I would check stifles, hocks and SI. You mention checking his back for KS and his poll but certainly plenty of other areas. What were X-rays of?

For bits the Herm Sprenger double jointed copper eggbuts or d rings are really nice. I think there is a newer pricier version I saw on SP that is specifically for horses who pull too.
This one-
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/herm-sprenger-novocontact-double-j-eggbutt-sensogan-13970?sku=2109767951&g_acctid=312-013-2860&g_adgroupid=&g_adid=&g_adtype=none&g_campaign=NB_Shopping_PMAX_Tack&g_campaignid=17492319572&g_keyword=&g_keywordid=&g_network=x&utm_campaign=&utm_content=NB_Shopping_PMAX_Tack&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1s6K84WvhAMVQTbUAR1lhQE0EAQYCSABEgKhqfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

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Just throwing this out there: my mare was like a new horse in the bridle with a tongue relief bit, specifically low port mullens. In case you haven’t tried one.

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I’m not the OP, but I’ve been considering trying a low port Mullen for my horse. Do you have any suggestions for an economical version to try?

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Not who you asked but I like this one:

https://www.doversaddlery.com/blue-alloy-hunter-dee-mlln-mth/p/X1-013276/

For less than $50, it has been a hit!

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I use the loose ring version of what @fivestrideline posted:

https://a.co/d/83Jlfrc

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Thank you both!

I used to believe changing bits was merely “fine tuning,” that every horse should be able to go decently in a basic snaffle mouth and the only reason to change would be to sharpen/elevate performance. Any failure to be able to go nicely in a regular old loose ring snaffle was the fault of the rider.

But this horse had me pulling my hair out. On top of being really inconsistent in the bridle, she had a spook/bolt move that I could not get the upper hand on. So I bought her a kimberwick out of want for brakes, and it just happened to have a low port mullen mouth. She was like a new horse. With our issues behind us, I entered an upcoming dressage show and figured I needed to put her back in her snaffle— and I got my old inconsistent horse back. I asked myself if maybe, just maybe, it was the mouth shape and bought the only low port loose ring mullen I could find at the time that wasn’t $$$$, which happened to be the Shires Blue Alloy. And voila… problems solved. We haven’t looked back!

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Some horses can ONLY accept a low port mullen mouthpiece. LOL I have two horses like that now.

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Do you have a video of the behavior, w/t/c?

My experience is that fussiness in the mouth is a tension problem, and tension is a symptom of present pain. Rooting in specific seems to be a symptom of hock and SI soreness. Repeated sores from a rubber bit would concern me. Sounds like this horse is heavy on the bit, or the hands are heavy on the mouth. Non-allergenic sores don’t just form by themselves - they need pressure.

FWIW - a temporary nerve block does not rule out KS or spinal issues, since these issues typically cause issues in other parts of the body like the SI, hocks, and suspensories. I’m not saying it’s definitely KS or CA, but don’t throw out that diagnosis yet.

This may come across as unsympathetic and it is not intended to. Your issue is fairly textbook of an OTTB with undiagnosed pain. TBs in particular are a stoic but sensitive breed, they tend to demonstrate unhappiness through the mouth before resorting to behavioral issues.

Without a video my first instinct would be to look at the feet. TBs tend to have less than stellar angles from the track, and not many farriers are experienced correcting these angles. I’d also want to investigate why the sores in the mouth keep forming, that is a big flag to me something is going on especially if he is heavy in the bridle.

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This. Also realize that discomfort in front of the saddle isn’t always the mouth - there’s a whole head up there. Consider your bridle fit, as very sensitive horses may prefer a different noseband. Have you tried a Micklem? In my experience horses either don’t notice a bridle change at all, or it changes the game entirely.

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The Fager Emil is designed for exactly this type of horse: “Emil is the perfect solution for sensitive horses who easily cut or bruise in the mouth.”

My OTTB wasn’t as dramatic as your case, and he never actually had visible sores, but he has become more accepting and steady in the contact since switching to this bit. He also has a small mouth so the thinner size and lighter weight seem to work really well for him. You can get it from SmartPak and return it if it doesn’t work out, or Fager will do a bit trial through their website. I’ve also heard good things about their bit consultations for helping to troubleshoot, but haven’t done that myself.

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OP, I encountered a similar issue twice (through a family member), of horses that would not go on the bit despite trying seemingly everything in terms of vet, farrier, tack, etc. Here is how each situation resolved.

  1. Horse was previously trained through 3rd level years prior. Subsequently, the horse was owned and ridden for many years by riders who didn’t and/or couldn’t get him on the bit. My family member could not get him on the bit, so she promptly got the dentist out, even though the horse was up to date on floating. The dentist looked at his mouth and asked if the horse went on the bit. She said no, won’t go on the bit. The dentist said that although the horse had recently been floated, the floating did not successfully reach the back molars. He said that the sharp molars were preventing the horse from being able to go on the bit. The dentist floated the back molars. The next day, the owner rode the horse and . . . there was no improvement. The horse then had two months off for unrelated reasons (related to the owner not the horse). During this time, the horse was turned out in a huge pasture. After two months off, upon returning to work the horse went on the bit! I believe the reason for the delay is that the horse had been holding himself hollow for so many years, he needed a break (similar to a let down period for race horses) to let his muscles, tendons and ligaments relax before he was ready to start working in a new frame, after the underlying dental issue was resolved.

  2. OTTB was very fussy in the contact, head in the air. Owner tried a variety of bits and no-leverage hackamores and found some that the horse liked better than others but nothing that solved the issue, even after teeth floating and time off. The vet found nothing wrong. The owner did not suspect a saddle fit issue because she had an independent saddle fitter out several times, and bought two different used saddle that the saddle fitter flocked to fit the horse. After a year, the owner was feeling very stressed about the situation, as there was no overall improvement. She then tried an EQ saddle. The EQ saddle completely resolved the issue. The horse now goes very well in her favorite bit, micklem bridle, and EQ saddle.

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If your horse is consistent in the contact in the side reins with no rider but fights with a rider, my thoughts are as follows:

  1. Rider error
  2. Saddle fit
  3. Hocks or hind feet

I would think that you’ve checked your saddle and forgot to mention it in the post, and acknowledge that sometimes horses don’t like the saddle that supposedly fits them perfectly.

Did you do rads of his feet and hocks or only his spine? Is he in shoes?

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I have found with horses who fuss, fuss, fuss with the bit is that these horses were NEVER allowed to develop a proper relationship with the bit.

I ride lesson horses, often elderly lesson horses, who are often totally into fussing with the mouth, ducking back behind contact, inverting, and otherwise showing their displeasure.

With one horse I was in despair and I hit my equitation books. One day I read something about having a straight line from the rider’s elbow to the bit, not only vertically but from side to side. So I concentrated on having a straight line from my elbow without bringing my hands together over the withers as well as the straight line from the side.

It took each horse as long as it took each horse, they are all individuals. But after a while, during my one 30 minute lesson a week, the horses relaxed, started to poke their nose forward in front of vertical, and obeying my rein aids. One day I was looking at my hands and realized when I had a straight line from my elbow to the bit when I looked down at my hands that the horses could SEE MY HANDS, and that the horse could not see my hands when they were in the “proper” position of maybe 5" apart, the width of the bit. When the horse can see my hands clearly, my hands are about a 12" to 18" apart and the horse relaxed and reached for the bit.

This drove my riding teacher crazy at first, at least until she saw the horses I ride relax, breathe out, reach out for the bit, and carry the bit on contact without fussing.

Yes, this is not an ideal hand position for winning equitation classes. However if the horse will not accept the bit when the rider’s hands are in the winning equitation position, the first challenge that must be met is getting the horse to reach out for the bit calmly. Only after calm contact is established can a rider worry about a hand position that would win in an equitation class.

I have Multiple Sclerosis. My hands have a tremor, my hands often wander to the side, my coordination is absolutely horrible (I have to concentrate really hard to coordinate my body). But even with all my physical problems the horses relax, reach for the bit in response to my leg aids, and KEEP contact easily and cheerfully so long as they can see my hands out of the corner of their eyes. After a while, however long it takes that individual horse, I can bring my hands together into the “proper” equitation position without the horse objecting. If the horse starts fussing at the bit again then I move my hands out so the horse can see my hands and the horses tend to relax and settle down.

And I also recommend the Fager titanium bits. With my physical difficulties with my hands the best Fager snaffle bit for MY hands are the Bianca–a titanium 3-piece mouthpiece snaffle with a titanium roller on the center link which gives the horse something easy to move with their tongue when the horse starts becoming tense. Nowadays I ride with a double bridle with the Fager Victoria Mullen mouth curb bit with the longer shank and the Fager Alicia bridoon which is the bridoon equivalent of the bigger ringed Fager Bianca snaffle bit. I have used this double bridle on horses who were resistant to bits, they relax, they reach for the bits, and they keep contact just fine even when I tie up my bridoon reins and keep contact with just the curb bit.

I LOVE the Fager titanium bits that work with my handicapped hands. There are Fager bits that do NOT work with my handicapped hands, and the horses will tell me so quickly. When that happens I switch back to the Fager Bianca or my double bridle with the Fager titanium bits and all is forgiven.

And when the horse I ride inverts and mimics a giraffe I raise my hands so there is still a straight line from my elbow to the horse’s mouth and pretty quickly in my experience the horse reaches out for the bit, some horses will reach for the bit all the way down to the ground, and as long as I let them do this the horse relaxes, and when his head comes back up the inversion disappears and the horse accepts contact much better, until the next time. At 30 minutes a week it may take me several weeks to “cure” the inversion, but after that the horse rarely tries inversions again when I am riding him. This works a lot better than trying to keep my hands down or trying to pull the horse’s head down.

These elderly, been there done that with beginning riders, lesson horses end up trusting my hands even though I am handicapped and my hands really are not the best all the time, so long as they can SEE my hands.

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My Goober came with a bog-standard snaffle (which I also used to think was a bit that could be all things to nearly all horses). We worked a lot on holding himself up, softening his jaw, etc., and as he started to muscle up and understand the assignment he’d go along happily, but never really reaching into my hands to have a conversation. And if I closed my hands even minutely, his head would shoot up, his neck would brace, and he would do his very best camel impression.

As an experiment, I picked up a double-jointed eggbutt with a fat lozenge in the middle, and the difference was like night and day. He was immediately more steady in the contact, more willing to engage, and less protective. It seemed very clear to me that he did NOT enjoy how the single joint acted on his mouth vs. the double. As a further experiment, I tried another double-joint, but this time a copper loose ring. He’s OK with it, but I think he prefers the stability of the eggbutt.

Just my anecdata on how the various elements of a bit need to be considered/can be tweaked. There is a fascinating bit-fitting rabbit hole out there if you’re so inclined.

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