Horse continually losing shoes

[ChasseurSauteur]

About nine months ago we finally found a farrier who’s really working out for my TB gelding (with historically terrible feet). Horse (and vet) are very happy with the current setup. Only problem - we have begun losing shoes at an annoying rate (at least once per month, but this month we have lost two shoes, twice apiece!!)

He’s in bar shoes + pads up front and a standard shoe behind, turned out all day in a group of very playful geldings in deep snow (we’re in Canada). Lives in bell boots. Luckily he doesn’t damage the foot at all when losing the shoes - he’s just walking out of them.

I’m sure getting annoyed at how often I’m losing riding time, and I’m sure the farrier is even more annoyed at how often he has to come out. In all other aspects, I’ve loved working with this farrier and I’d be very loath to change the current shoeing setup - I’ll be chatting with the farrier this weekend when he’s out, but any suggestions you guys might have for keeping these bloody shoes ON THE HORSE would be greatly appreciated!

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Is he just not holding a shoe or is he reaching up with a hind foot and pulling them off? If that’s the case there is an imbalance that’s not being addressed.

It is hard to give advice without seeing what is going on…

That being said when my old man was in shoes as a precaution I kept bell boots on him pretty much 24/7. I had the best luck with the gum colored pull ons that are double thick at the bottom. The gum color seems to be softer and take much more of a beating than the other colors, but they can be hard to find when they get one off in turnout. Make sure they fit right or they will rub… they should just touch the ground at the back of the foot when standing square. If they are too big they will bunch up at the back and if they are too small and don’t touch the ground they are useless.
https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/centaur-pull-on-bell-boots-7946?_br_psugg_q=bell+boots

[BatCoach]

Bar shoes and pads can be heavy. Have you tried Keratex? It might help strengthen the wall and prevent the nail holes from getting loose.

I’ve heard good tings about the Thinline Gator Boots https://thinlineglobal.com/shop/horse-tack-equipment/gatorbootz-bell-boot-fail-proof-closure?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-LyknP7T7gIV_w2tBh1rOgTeEAQYAiABEgL4QvD_BwE
but have no real experience with them.

[Obsidian_Fire]

I ended up putting bell boots on all 4. It caused my mare to pick up her hind feet just a bit more, and knock on wood she hasn’t pulled a shoe again.

[horseshorseshorseshorses]

Another thing to consider is add a biotin supplement to his diet. My OTTB had really bad feet coming off of the track and both my vet and farrier recommended I start feeding him biotin. Neither of them recommended a specific brand. They both told me “biotin will do him good. Aim for at least 40 mg per day.” I honestly don’t buy the fancy brands and go for the largest amount of biotin for my buck.

It will take 9-12 months to see differences in your horse’s hooves. It’s not a quick fix but it does help.

[RedHorses]

First ask the farrier what he can do differently to keep shoes on.

I knew someone who’s horse lost shoes often and lived in bell boots. The farrier only used four nails per shoe (two each side) and said it was so the hoof wall wouldn’t get broken up when the shoe came off, and refused to add nails. The new farrier used six nails per shoe and the horse stopped losing shoes as often - like once in six months instead of at least once per cycle.

Other chronic shoe pullers I’ve known have been fixed with a change in farrier.

[Equkelly]

My growing young my mare went through this last summer as well and it drove me and the farrier crazy. It got better with quarter clips, and my farrier did rocker toe so she could get her fronts out of the way faster. Even still, she lived in bell boots. It did get better when her condition improved and she had a top line and she was using her body.

[J-Lu]

Are you sure your bell boots are the right size for him? I used to use bell boots that hit the ground behind (Centaur velcro) because my horse overtracks and regularly lost the front right shoe (due to his conformation). I also use Farrier Barrier on the advice of my farrier. I don’t use the bell boots currently because we had such a wet year that they rubbed the coronet and caused problems (the first time in 5 years of use).

I’m not sure I’d recommend a change in farriers. I use one of the best farriers in my area and he’s not the reason why my horse can pull a shoe. It is my horse’s conformation and overtracking. But it is something for you to consider. My BO changed his chronically off horse to my farrier (their other horses stay with their previous farrier, who ran out of ideas with this particular horse and encouraged another farrier) and he’s not off anymore because of the approach.

We moved years ago to shoes with quarter clips and that helped. My farrier uses copper nails that supposedly reduce bacteria in the holes.

My horse occasionally loses a shoe now that I’m not using bell boots, mostly when it is muddy and his neighbors change (that really animates him-he’s a worrier). He lost one this week (he had 3 different neighbors). But I think his dressage training has helped him move in a more balanced manner that may have helped over these months.

My vet likes how this farrier shoes him. Maybe your vet can chime in?

Oh, my horse is on a 5 week shoeing schedule. At 6 weeks, his shoes are poorly hanging on. We balance heel support with pulling of shoes (meaning, how much heel support we can add without my horse pulling the shoes. It is a fine balance.) I’ve never had a 5 week schedule prior to this horse but here we are. His nutrition meets the AVMA standards for horses (his pasture was professionally analyzed and I weigh his feed) in all categories. My farrier considers his feet as “good”.

Good luck!

[SolarFlare]

I just wanted to offer a suggestion for bell boots for use in the snow. My horse has them on behind in winter, not because he loses shoes but because he’s corked and on frozen ground tends to step on himself behind.

I use the Horze neoprene bell boots - not a no-turn style, but a simple bell shape. They stay pretty flexible in the cold, are thick enough to protect, stay on pretty well in turnout, and don’t rub. I think because they fit fairly snugly around the top, they stay in place.

https://www.bahrsaddlery.com/horze-pro-bell-neoprene-boots-horze-pro-bell-neoprene-boots.html

[MsM]

I think your approach also depends upon how and why your horse loses shoes. Are the shoes getting loose and then just coming off with the least amount of stress? Or are they tight and seem secure and then come off as if they are yanked off?

If the former, you can ask the farrier to try something to make the shoes more secure such as clips or bigger clinches. But if the shoes are being yanked off, you run the risk of pulling chunks of hoof off. It is a difficult balance in a lot of ways!

[ChasseurSauteur]

Thanks so much for all these thoughts. Will chat with the farrier (if he ever returns my texts, sigh) and raise some of these suggestions.

[sascha]

Rock or roll the front shoes as much as possible along with setting the front of the shoe back as far as possible on the foot. The second half might involve having to readjust the placement of the bar The first part - rocking or rolling - can be as simple as taking a grinder to the toe of the shoe.

[Dbliron]

I think the problem has more to do with deep snow than anything else. Last winter we had epic snow - our horses made tunnels through it, and only their heads stuck out above it. Our fence lines were completely snowed under. As a result, I had a terrible time with all of the horses losing (mostly) front shoes, it drove me and my farrier nuts. All of them have really good feet, and don’t normally lose shoes at all, but it was constant last winter. Between the three of them we had lost shoes weekly, and sometimes both fronts in the same day. However, watching them navigate the deep stuff made the issue crystal clear, in order to get through it they had to take huge steps both in front and behind, and the snow added suction. Once the snow was gone we had no more issues, and thus far, while the polar vortex is due to arrive tonight we have a reasonable amount of snow, and no problems holding shoes. Sometimes our environment works against us…all of them are in steady work, hence the shoes through the winters.

[Weezer]

We once had a similar problem and switching to smaller nails seemed to really help. If this is a snow problem, another option to consider is to leave him barefoot and invest in a pair of hoof boots with corrective padding for your rides. Once the snow is gone, you can transition him back to shoes.

[sascha]

Never occurred to me that snow would be an issue. For me, it’s always been deep sucking mud that would pull a shoe if a shoe were going to be pulled, or lack of a sufficiently rocked or rolled toe on an extravagant and/or short-backed horse.

Knock on wood, I have never had deep snow pull a shoe - turn a pull-on bell boot upside down, yes, pull off a Velcro bell boot, also yes, pull shoes, nope.

[beau159]

@ChasseurSauteur

I’ll be chatting with the farrier this weekend when he’s out, but any suggestions you guys might have for keeping these bloody shoes ON THE HORSE would be greatly appreciated!

One summer, my Red was constantly pulling or bending shoes … liked once per week. I had him in speciality shoes on the front for heel pain (wedge pad with shoe) and rear rim shoes for traction for barrel racing. Turns out, he had an undiagnosed stifle issues. Got the stifle issue under control and the shoe pulling magically stopped. He was probably “scrambling” a lot due to the stifle issues, which was causing him to step on himself.

In my opinion, a bell boot won’t stop the force of a shoe being bent or pulled. If they’re going to catch it, they are going to catch it.

So, is it possible there is any undiagnosed lameness problem with your horse that might account for him catching shoes?

[ChasseurSauteur]

Lots of good stuff to consider here! In response to those asking whether this might be soundness-related - he was just seen by the lameness vet a couple of weeks ago for his maintenance injections, so that definitely may have been playing a part.

Discussed with the farrier today - we rolled the front shoes as much as possible last time, so have decided to try a straight bar on the fronts rather than the egg bar, and we’ve adjusted the back edges of the hind shoes to have them fit more closely. (From examining the lost hind shoes, it’s clear that his pasture mates are stepping on them.)

Hopefully this will help somewhat. Told the horse to keep the shoes on, or else he’s being left by the side of the road with a “Free to Good Home” sign around his neck!!

[walktrot]

Do the biotin. Research has shown it is the best option for improving hoof quality. My gelding’s feet were okay but he acquired an odd little ding on a hind foot. It was growing out but developed a very shallow crack that wouldn’t quit. Farrier commented months later that hoof wall and sole were both thicker and stronger.

I use Bioflax 20 from HorseTech.com.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Sufficient biotin is important, but if the horse is getting plenty of good quality forage there most likely isn’t a deficiency… balanced levels of copper/zinc are also very important for a strong laminar connection. Balancing the copper and zinc with the levels of iron and manganese in the diet is important. Dr Kellon recommends a ration of 4-10:1:3:3 (iron/copper/zinc/manganese). I have seen how balancing to iron impacts hoof health in my own horses. It’s like night and day.

https://uckele.com/articles/is-it-safe-to-increase-copper-zinc-and-manganese-to-balance-excessive-iron/
https://thehorse.com/19784/trace-mineral-basics-zinc-and-copper/#:~:text=As%20such%2C%20horses%20must%20consume,proper%20absorption%20of%20both%20minerals.
https://yuccitup.com/blogs/equine-nutrition-health/hay-harmony-cu-zn#:~:text=The%20ratio%20of%20iron%3Acopper,Eleanor%20Kellon%2C%20VMD.

[PNWjumper]

So a couple of things here:

1. Bell boots won’t really help horses that pull shoes. They are made to protect the coronet band and more sensitive tissue around the foot from injury. If you want to prevent shoes from coming off on a real shoe puller, you will have to move to something like a shoe secure (www.shoesecure.com). I have used these with great success on a couple of goofy youngsters who liked to rip shoes off while playing. But all you have to do is watch a horse walk in mud/snow/deep sand to see why bell boots do next to nothing. They might help a bit with a horse that tends to step on a front foot with another front foot, or other casual/incidental interference issues, but mostly bell boots make the owner feel better rather than doing much to keep shoes on. That’s not to say they’re useless, and I still keep them on my horses that are more prone to doing it, but I have very little expectation that the bell boots will help with shoe issues. I had this driven home by a horse who liked to kick off a front shoe at the base of jumps at shows, and for riding purposes I found much more effective bellboots for that purpose…but I don’t think they’d work well for turnout: https://www.equusport.com/product/quarter-bell-boots/

2. Eggbars and really any sort of a bar shoe is much more difficult to keep on a horse. There are a couple of reasons for that. One is that the shoe is usually easier for a horse to grab with a hind foot, but also, the leverage of the weight of the shoe on the back of the foot makes them wear more easily. I have found with my TB (who went through a few cycles in eggbars this last year) that I had to reclinch the nails every few days by the end of his cycle. He also pulled more shoes while he was in those shoes than he does in regular shoes/pads. I do think that only putting 2 nails in exacerbates the situation as well. But I can maybe understand a farrier’s perspective that if he’s going to pull them anyway, at least that minimizes damage to the foot? I would think that if your farrier was ‘that’ annoyed by having to keep putting the shoes on, he would add another nail just to give him another day or two between visits.

3. Snow. There’s no way around the fact that any sort of footing made deeper by the environment (so snow or mud or whatever) is going to slow the front foot and create a great situation for shoe pulling. Mine wade through deep mud periodically, and I am putting shoes back on my horses fairly routinely this time of the year. I am sure my farrier would jump for joy if I would keep my horses in stalls, but I prefer the mental outlet to keeping shoes on the feet.

4. Last suggestion, along the lines of what someone else said - try different nails. I have found that copper nails really help a lot with my TB (who has very stereotypical TB feet). Might be worth a try? The nail holes seem to stay smaller with less wear and tear than when we use regular nails.

Best of luck to you. I got so tired of harassing my farrier about lost shoes that I made him teach me how to put a shoe back on, so I totally feel your pain!