Horse ets spookier with work

[J-Lu]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

OP
Do you usually ride alone when you are schooling?
Dressage riders tend to ride alone unless they are at a large boarding stable where you have to share the ring , otherwise you couldnt ride.

Is there someone in your barn that can ride in the ring with you?
Someone who has a nonreactive horse that wont be bothered if your horse spooks?

Could your trainer ride another horse in the ring while you are schooling?

Maybe you could do some schooling with such a rider , playing follow the leader. With each of you taking turns being the leader.

(The other rider isnt there to babysit you.
They are there to give your horse a model to follow.

Plus schooling with someone can be a fun break .
Dressage can be isolating. We are expected to work alone. )

I’ve heard of people using a steady Eddie type of horse to teach fearful horses to load onto a trailer .
Or a seasoned trail horse teaching a young horse how to cross creeks or go through deep water.

Perhaps having another horse working with him will give him a sense of security which you havent , through no fault of your own , been able to do.

Of course, this can create another problem of making him herd bound, but you are an intelligent person and if you plan carefully you can prevent it from happening before it starts.

This actually may have the added benefit of getting him inured to the organized mayhem called the warmup ring at shows, and then having to be alone in the actual class.

I often ride alone (which I prefer), but not always. The BOs like to ride when I’m there (they don’t ride often). He’s much better when other horses are in the arena, but still hypervigilant. I plan to try riding with the Western trainer now that I’m working from home. It kind of disrupts our schooling but I don’t want to go to the hospital now! Yes, he’s much better when other horses are in the arena going by the GoD. Interestingly, I turned him out in the playground adjacent to the ring (which has tones of grass and clover) when the western trainer held his last clinic (so about 5-6 horses in the arena) and my horse threw a fit… running, bucking himself into a lather watching him from afar. This is a place I regularly grazed him in/around because of the grass and clover growth. He came up to me when I went to get him, showing his insecurity in life.

I used to take him to “open shows” with a friend who rode QHs. Clearly, we weren’t going to win (clearly!!!) but we did manage to win a belt buckle!!! Mostly for conformation classes. You can’t desensitize a horse more than taking him to open shows! SO MUCH going on!!! Sometimes he was great! Most times, not to much. We went to one barn regularly (my friend purchased a QH from this barn) and they re-painted the in-gate red. I had classes held for me because my horse wouldn’t go through a gate he went through many times before. It was red. I rode in an English Pleasure class and when we lined up, the judge said “That did not seem pleasureable. Are you OK?”

We’ve tried dressage shows when he was younger, and he was a mess even with a trainer. At 11, he might be different but shows have been kind of a waste of money. He spooked at a bird the other day, did I mention he lives outside? That’s where his brain can be at. I have to work with the horse who shows up. Yes, I need to conquer his fear because I want to show third +. I’m usually a pretty gutsy rider, who doesn’t take foolish crap. I’ve regularly implanted my spur in his side, and am seriously considering harsher spurs. Clinician Rolf J. suggested I try roweled spurs, but I can’t find them at 1" or under.

I’m doing Facebook stuff (thanks, coronavirus) with an FEI/GP level trainer who specializes in young horses, who worked with him and me when he was 4. She knows him. She knows his past. She’s the one who hosted the USDF trainer demo rides that I did.

Thank you!!!

[J-Lu]

@skip99

I have two anecdotes:

She is mentally sharp so I had to get more tools in my tool box when I made a bad decision in picking a boarding situation for her which had increased her reactivity significantly as a 2-3 year old. I ended up getting a subscription to the Warwick Schiller website/videos. I’ve just got to say that the video you posted at the trainers is quite opposite of Warwick’s videos - Warwick is much more methodical in completing & getting the horse comfortable with the first step before asking anything else from the horse. I wouldn’t have even put the saddle on in the roundpen with your horse being so tense with his head way up, step one would have been get him to lower his head & relax in the roundpen, I’m not at all surprised he exploded. I didn’t follow Warwick’s program 100% but I picked out keep exercises that I thought would help and still use a couple of the very basic ones to “check in” with my mare. I would highly recommend watching his videos.

For spooky areas I use those as a resting place and maybe incorporate a bit of baby lateral work into it. Working trot down quarter line, downward transition to walk with leg yield toward scary spot and nice scratch/rub with inside hand, back to trot once past the scary spot. Might not make it all the way to the scary spot on the first time, rinse, repeat, ask for a little more.

Good luck!

Thank you! The video I posted was after weeks of work, and was originally “part 4” o f his series introducing the horse to a western saddle…the saddle was laid in the center of the round pen and my horse had all the time in the world to get used to it. I’ll also mention that this horse was professionally started by a GP-level rider who started her own horses for dressage for 30 years. He bucked her off. I can add to this story. He has had all the right experiences in life.

I have tried to do what you suggested, dismounting after the ride at the Gate of Doom regularly, chatting with friends while he got sleepy there, tons of scratches and rubs because he’s now most expressive with wither rubs due to insects, dismounting and scratching his naval and sheath due to insects.

I “stroke” his withers when he’s good. A pat/stroke. I’ll work on making sure I do this every time. Thanks!

[RedHorses]

Teaching my boy how to let go of his rabbits before he collects so many that he can’t handle it any more was a game changer for us. Rabbits are basically anxiety or worry about things in this context. As more anxiety gets added to the collection the reaches a point at which something has to be done - like staying away from the GoD.

My horse still gets anxious but he’s learned to let that go while it’s still small. So the GoD induces anxiety, but instead of clutching the rabbit tightly he can let it go as we continue our work past the GoD. And the next time round he’s picking up one more rabbit - and one rabbit is easy. He can handle one rabbit, or two, or three, but ten or twelve is a different story. He can’t hold a rabbit for every time he passes the GoD - he’s got to let them go.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹
My boy has gotten pretty good at letting go of his rabbits, and just needs the occasional reminder.

I wish I’d had this knowledge when I had my QH. He just got better able to carry more rabbits.

[xQHDQ]

@RedHorses

Teaching my boy how to let go of his rabbits before he collects so many that he can’t handle it any more was a game changer for us. .

I love the rabbit analogy. It makes so much sense when I consider my boy’s behavior. He really tries to keep it together until he can’t. When I’m able to ride again, I’m definitely going to think about this as I work with him. Thanks for sharing.

[RedHorses]

@xQHDQ

I love the rabbit analogy. It makes so much sense when I consider my boy’s behavior. He really tries to keep it together until he can’t. When I’m able to ride again, I’m definitely going to think about this as I work with him. Thanks for sharing.

I posted links to a couple of Warwick Schiller videos along with how I put it into practice earlier in the thread. They’ll give you more food for thought!

[endlessclimb]

OP, what are you looking for in this thread? You’re dismissing every idea presented.

Your team can be pros, can have years of experience, but still could have methods that aren’t working for your horse. You don’t need to defend them as you do.

For the leg snatching when being shod? Absolutely a pain response. Could be the angle the main farrier holds the foot, that the assistant doesn’t. Could be something he is taught to tolerate, could not be. But if snatching when shod isn’t a pain response, I don’t know what is. Lots of horses have a reaction to shoes being nailed on because the concussion hurts somehow, somewhere. And if its the VERY VERY slim chance he’s just being a jerk? I’d one legged hobble him in an arena and let him work that out on his own.

I guess I’ll just say good luck, since clearly you have the rest covered.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

A horse can be hypervigilant but not neccessary spooky , or bolt .

Hypervigilance has a number of causes and isnt always from innate temperament.

Too much feed, not enough forage
The wrong kind of feed
Certain medications and supplements.
Too much or a lack of vitamins and minerals.
Not enough turnout
Not enough sleep.
Certain disorders: Lyme, Ulcers

Some of these have been ruled out but not all.
And some of these take time and experimenting
Changing feed is simple , but the change in the horse may take time to show a change in behavior.

Something is triggering his panic response .
He may be hypervigilant, but that doesn’t explain all of his behavior.

Imo I think that this horse has a form of PTSD.
Somewhere in his past someone pushed this horse too far, too fast to the point of causing him pain.

Please read this carefully
I am NOT saying it was something that YOU did.

in your OP you stated that he tends to spook when you to start to work. And that the GoD is where he tends to bolt. If I am reading it correctly.

Spooking is usually caused by
A response to external stimuli: sudden loud noise, or apparent danger.
a response to internal stimuli:
pain , actual or anticipated.
or fear of pain and punishment.

(sometimes horses do spook to get out of work but that is a little different.)

You may be triggering a response from an incident from long ago and with which you had nothing to do.

Early on in his training, he may have spooked as an evasion, or from pain and was punished for it in such a way that he never forgot it.

I would do some careful experimenting and see exactly what work sets him off and when.

Also do some ground work to build his confidence in you and in himself.

On a lighter note, I know someone who had a horse that would almost have a come apart if someone moved the trash cans.
They were moved one day from one side of the barn to the other and the horse started carrying on, snorting and trying to spin around and acting all stoopit, like the trash cans had become horse killing trash cans of death.
The next time he walked by , the trash cans were in their usual spot and had been magically transformed back into ordinary trash cans and he walked by them as if nothing had happened.

This was a usually laid back horse that was good about most things, and didnt start or spook at almost anything.

That’s horses.

[GraceLikeRain]

@J-Lu

Oh, this horse hates flags despite his work. Despite his work. I have used Remount Horsemanship and the vast majority of his horses accept flags. Here’s a video of this horses reaction to flags after weeks of training 6 years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLu5r4jcHhU

Oh, this was 2-3 weeks after he had him in training and introduced the western saddle. This horse was professionally bred, well raised, started by a dressage professional who started he own horses for over 30 years.

You can see this trainer’s approach. You can watch his newer videos to see his approach.

Second 1 of watching my thought was “I hope he’s unsaddling because that horse is about to blow”. The fact that he held it together for 30 seconds is pretty impressive. The combination of inverted neck and intensely looking over the shoulder are the two things my reactive mare does when she is feeling stressed, trapped, and wants to move her feet but is afraid.

The trainer didn’t ask for a COTH critique but several of the videos show a progression before the horse has really accepting the prior step. A lot of horses tolerate this without too much issue but some really need to find a mental place of rest at every little step along the way.

The spookier with work is a small facet of a larger problem, which you recognize.

My mare (the one who would have done exactly what I saw in the video above) spooks when stressed. That stress can be a 2/10, the type of stress or pressure that the average horse would barely register. For her, it is like a slow boil where it creeps in and when it hits a very low threshold, she’s going to spook and spook hard. A door can slam one day and it is no big deal but a dog barking in the distance is enough to push her button the next. She also has a chosen corner that is the scary corner. Despite being hot and reactive, I work on keeping her truly in front of my leg so that I can have a jello/supple feel at all times.

If I feel tension creep in, I will intentionally turn up center line, quarter line and leg yield out, etc. so that I’m not asking her to trot directly into the area where she wants to have an outlet to blow. Even if she isn’t relaxed, I do everything to let go of the smallest tension that could have crept into my forearms or thighs. Once her level of tension goes back down, I’ll do an intentional walk transition and work through the space at a walk. Only when she feels totally relaxed will I go back to a trot or canter through that area. It is tedious but I feel that she’s a horse who has been held together a lot, her brain cannot handle tension and she has found her chosen outlet. Some days we work through that corner the whole ride and others we barely touch it but by putting the decision in my court, I’m trying to set her up for success and reinforce that tension doesn’t have to result in an explosion.

If you have a sensitive and reactive horse who has used the same area as a mental outlet for 6 years, I don’t know if aggressively riding through the issue will solve anything. I also don’t know if it will ever go away. My gut says that much like the video above, there is a period of time before Gate where he is no longer loose and swinging. He may still be moving like an 8 but as a rider you can feel that subtle stiffening in the back or the base of his neck drops. If you can find a way to redirect the tension and work away from his trigger area, I’d bet a virtual dollar that the frequency of explosions will go down.

[xQHDQ]

Are the Spursuaders legal in the showring?

[Jackie_Cochran]

According to the Spursuader site they are legal in:

Canadian Eventing
Canadian and American Hunter/Jumper
USDF
Canadian and British Dressage Shows
FEI Show Jumping

As usual, to be sure check the rule book!

[cnm161]

I had a very spooky/reactive horse that I was able to get to GP because his spooks were always FORWARD. He wasn’t dirty or overly self-protective (to the point of ditching me), and I was able to channel the spooks (they always were there) into half-halts instead of spaz-outs. Took a couple years but we got there.

He never got over having a spooky spot in almost every arena, though. Over time, it became a chance to ask for more engagement and sit instead of lack of focus.

I have a horse right now who can be a bit dirty and overly self-protective (she’s got a well-established eject button), and I just recently made the difficult decision to retire her from real work. Especially now, when I don’t want to be anywhere near a hospital if I can help it, it’s just not worth the stress to either of us to keep pushing her into a role she doesn’t want to play. She appears healthy in every way, has clean x-rays, and is a wonderful mover who on her good days is solidly schooling PSG. But there’s clearly something off and she’s not 100% bought in to being a riding horse. It’s not worth it to me (professional with a job outside of the equine industry) to try to make it work.

This tale of two horses has definitely instilled in me the importance of temperament when shopping for the amateur horse. I need a horse that’s willing to dig in and try hard when the work gets tough.

Good luck in whatever direction you ultimately choose. It’s not easy and I sympathize!

[J-Lu]

@cnm161

I had a very spooky/reactive horse that I was able to get to GP because his spooks were always FORWARD. He wasn’t dirty or overly self-protective (to the point of ditching me), and I was able to channel the spooks (they always were there) into half-halts instead of spaz-outs. Took a couple years but we got there.

He never got over having a spooky spot in almost every arena, though. Over time, it became a chance to ask for more engagement and sit instead of lack of focus.

I have a horse right now who can be a bit dirty and overly self-protective (she’s got a well-established eject button), and I just recently made the difficult decision to retire her from real work. Especially now, when I don’t want to be anywhere near a hospital if I can help it, it’s just not worth the stress to either of us to keep pushing her into a role she doesn’t want to play. She appears healthy in every way, has clean x-rays, and is a wonderful mover who on her good days is solidly schooling PSG. But there’s clearly something off and she’s not 100% bought in to being a riding horse. It’s not worth it to me (professional with a job outside of the equine industry) to try to make it work.

This tale of two horses has definitely instilled in me the importance of temperament when shopping for the amateur horse. I need a horse that’s willing to dig in and try hard when the work gets tough.

Good luck in whatever direction you ultimately choose. It’s not easy and I sympathize!

Oh, thank you!

His spooks are not forward but slamming on the brakes, ducking in front, whirling and bolting. To different degrees. Most are rideable, some aren’t. Yes, I also don’t want to be anywhere near a hospital these days and am considering things. He’s quite talented but very prone to distraction that we can’t seem to address. It really is a hard set of facts to consider.

Thank you for your advice.

[J-Lu]

@endlessclimb

OP, what are you looking for in this thread? You’re dismissing every idea presented.

Your team can be pros, can have years of experience, but still could have methods that aren’t working for your horse. You don’t need to defend them as you do.

For the leg snatching when being shod? Absolutely a pain response. Could be the angle the main farrier holds the foot, that the assistant doesn’t. Could be something he is taught to tolerate, could not be. But if snatching when shod isn’t a pain response, I don’t know what is. Lots of horses have a reaction to shoes being nailed on because the concussion hurts somehow, somewhere. And if its the VERY VERY slim chance he’s just being a jerk? I’d one legged hobble him in an arena and let him work that out on his own.

I guess I’ll just say good luck, since clearly you have the rest covered.

I’m looking for ideas that will apply. I have responded to most of the posts explaining why they don’t apply, which I laid out (I think) in my first email. I’m hoping to get non-standard replies for approaches that might work with this particular horse. All of the declarative statements about what “is” wrong are mostly wrong.

[J-Lu]

@Jackie Cochran

J-lu,

I once had a Paso Fino mare I broke and trained myself. This mare was HOT, HOT, HOT, lit firecracker ready to explode when she wanted to be. Even so she was safe for me to ride though some of the times I had to ride her every step.

HOWEVER when I started feeding my horses some carrots for a treat she became super-duper explosive on the ground, really reactive. Nothing before in her over 10 years of life had gotten her so explosive. After the second carrot a few days later it clicked in my brain–with this horse carrots were “rocket fuel.”

Could your horse be eating some “rocket fuel?” It could be carrots, it could be alfalfa, it could be corn, it could be an ingredient in the sweet feed or pelleted feed. Several years before the carrot incident I had changed my horses from sweet feed to plain “western” oats, corn and alfalfa pellets plus grass hay and trace mineral salt, and I seem to remember her dialing her reactivity down. Could it have been the molasses causing her tension? Who knows, she just improved even when I gave her really, really good oats.

Another time I had an Arabian yearling stud colt, correctly started by his breeder, well trained by me, quiet, calm, responded with the thinking part of his brain, no problem handling from the ground, etc… I was boarding him at the Paso Fino breeding barn where I boarded and the owner decided to go to this “super” feed. The Paso stallions may have gotten a little more snorty, but my calm laid back nothing bothers him colt started rearing on me and became quite a handful. I told the owner to put him back on the regular sweet feed, and the colt calmed right back down and never reared again even when we had “discussions” about proper stud colt behavior around mares (including mares in heat).

Think about changing his feed. Personally I am a big believer in Western oats, local corn is fine so long it is tested for the alpha-toxin (sp?) mold, trace mineral salt and regular alfalfa pellets if more protein is needed. Some additive might be triggering this behavior in your horse, or some grain that is substituted for the oats or corn, or it may be soy beans, who knows. You seem to be doing everything else properly with his training and riding him etc., and it might be time to consider his feed.

You are a brave lady who knows a lot about riding and training horses, and you get good outside help with your horse. I am not dismissing your horsemanship at all, your horse is lucky to have you because you do search for solutions.

I would also like to suggest thinking about going to the gentlest spurs out there–the Spursuaders. With my MS, when it got hot and humid (NC summers) all the horses would get antsier under me and my riding teacher would come up to me and tell me it was time to stop wearing spurs until it got cooler. I tried the dummy spurs but they were not much better than a bare heel. Then I got the Spursuaders (http://www.spursuader.com) , even in the worst heat the horses stopped getting antsy and they do not mind me using my Spursuaders at all. I think the horses were getting antsy because they were expecting uncontrolled jabs from my–Prince of Wales spurs, my disc spurs (and the horses liked these), my Waterford spurs, and all the other spurs I had tried until I used the Spursuaders. The unexpected benefit from these spurs is that the horses do not tense up their rib-cage muscles and they feel these spurs just fine and obey them as promptly as they did the previous spurs when my legs worked well. I consider them my “yes, I mean it” spurs when I give a leg aid they ignore and they do not hurt the horse if used correctly (and I am very sure that you use your spurs correctly.)

May you find the solution soon. You deserve it.

Thank you!

He currently only gets balancer, and has been getting a flake of alfalfa in additiion to his normal hay (it’s pretty brown, harvested from the field next door) because he lost weight over the winter. He’s off the alfalfa now.

But…he’s been this way since he was three and super skinny and getting tons of food. Now he’s getting next to nothing in grain and is on pasture. The diet doesn’t seem to be a factor, the factor seems to be his brain. He has gotten better with training and age.

I can’t understand why a few carrots are rocket fuel to a 1200 lb horse, but I can try celery sticks because they are crunchy and my horse likes crunchy treats.

Re spurs, he can be pretty lazy to aids. When he’s thinking about spooking at external sources (making him bend to the inside) , I need some sort of spur to remind him quickly to bend to the outside and that he really needs to focus on me, not what he’s looking at. If his brain isn’t derailed quickly, he’ll take matters into his own hands. We do tons of shoulder-in leading up to the Gate of Doom which helps. I ride him straight during his mellow days.

Of note, he has gone past the Gate of Doom for 6 years now.

[J-Lu]

@GraceLikeRain

Second 1 of watching my thought was “I hope he’s unsaddling because that horse is about to blow”. The fact that he held it together for 30 seconds is pretty impressive. The combination of inverted neck and intensely looking over the shoulder are the two things my reactive mare does when she is feeling stressed, trapped, and wants to move her feet but is afraid.

The trainer didn’t ask for a COTH critique but several of the videos show a progression before the horse has really accepting the prior step. A lot of horses tolerate this without too much issue but some really need to find a mental place of rest at every little step along the way.

The spookier with work is a small facet of a larger problem, which you recognize.

My mare (the one who would have done exactly what I saw in the video above) spooks when stressed. That stress can be a 2/10, the type of stress or pressure that the average horse would barely register. For her, it is like a slow boil where it creeps in and when it hits a very low threshold, she’s going to spook and spook hard. A door can slam one day and it is no big deal but a dog barking in the distance is enough to push her button the next. She also has a chosen corner that is the scary corner. Despite being hot and reactive, I work on keeping her truly in front of my leg so that I can have a jello/supple feel at all times.

If I feel tension creep in, I will intentionally turn up center line, quarter line and leg yield out, etc. so that I’m not asking her to trot directly into the area where she wants to have an outlet to blow. Even if she isn’t relaxed, I do everything to let go of the smallest tension that could have crept into my forearms or thighs. Once her level of tension goes back down, I’ll do an intentional walk transition and work through the space at a walk. Only when she feels totally relaxed will I go back to a trot or canter through that area. It is tedious but I feel that she’s a horse who has been held together a lot, her brain cannot handle tension and she has found her chosen outlet. Some days we work through that corner the whole ride and others we barely touch it but by putting the decision in my court, I’m trying to set her up for success and reinforce that tension doesn’t have to result in an explosion.

If you have a sensitive and reactive horse who has used the same area as a mental outlet for 6 years, I don’t know if aggressively riding through the issue will solve anything. I also don’t know if it will ever go away. My gut says that much like the video above, there is a period of time before Gate where he is no longer loose and swinging. He may still be moving like an 8 but as a rider you can feel that subtle stiffening in the back or the base of his neck drops. If you can find a way to redirect the tension and work away from his trigger area, I’d bet a virtual dollar that the frequency of explosions will go down.

This is a great post, thank you! I think my horse looked over his shoulder much in that video is because his pasture mate was to the left. I originally told this trainer I wanted 2 months of training, but the issues revealed I needed 12 months of full and part time training. I fully believe this trainer saved this horse’s life by teaching him how to think. I very much fear what his life would have been like if I sold him (if I could have).

We work constantly on the Gate of Doom, even with my trainer. I often know when he’s really scared because I can feel his heart beating, but sometimes he says “Ummmmm, nope!!!” and is so athletic his spooks are hard to sit. I regularly do things that trainers suggest I do with him when he’s obviously hypervigilant.

I have very much taken the aggressive stance, telling him you WILL go past this gate. Sometimes he says “yes, ma’am”, sometimes he freaks because the pressure is too much. It is always a fine line with this horse. Like you say, I’m not sure if his fear will ever go away, and I am very much in the market to find a way to redirect this tension!!!

Any ideas???

[GraceLikeRain]

@J-Lu

I have very much taken the aggressive stance, telling him you WILL go past this gate. Sometimes he says “yes, ma’am”, sometimes he freaks because the pressure is too much. It is always a fine line with this horse. Like you say, I’m not sure if his fear will ever go away, and I am very much in the market to find a way to redirect this tension!!!

Any ideas???

I’d be super curious if you took a work around the issue approach for a few weeks. At this point, do you really have anything to lose? If you feel any tension as you get close to that area, make an intentional turn way before there’s even a thought of balking, do a half volte to change direction, turn early and shoulder in off the rail, ride a square, whatever is within his comfort zone to keep him thinking without raising the pressure. Keep him in his happy bubble and only move through that space when he’s totally swinging. My mare has the potential to be explosive and I’m working really hard to not create situations that teach her she has to “go there” to relieve tension. If she spooks I take the approach of “hmm. I’m sorry. I didn’t set you up for success and didnt read your tension early enough”. It’s not an approach I’ve ever taken before, nor is it one that I take with any of my other rides. For her specifically, I feel that the spook is like the valve trying to relieve pressure. Since adopting this mindset I’ve found that I stay calmer when she spooks or balks and we have fewer instances. Mine can also do quite an althetic dip and spin so I’m very motivated to do whatever keeps us happy as a team!

[J-Lu]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

A horse can be hypervigilant but not neccessary spooky , or bolt .

Hypervigilance has a number of causes and isnt always from innate temperament.

Too much feed, not enough forage
The wrong kind of feed
Certain medications and supplements.
Too much or a lack of vitamins and minerals.
Not enough turnout
Not enough sleep.
Certain disorders: Lyme, Ulcers

Some of these have been ruled out but not all.
And some of these take time and experimenting
Changing feed is simple , but the change in the horse may take time to show a change in behavior.

Something is triggering his panic response .
He may be hypervigilant, but that doesn’t explain all of his behavior.

Imo I think that this horse has a form of PTSD.
Somewhere in his past someone pushed this horse too far, too fast to the point of causing him pain.

Please read this carefully
I am NOT saying it was something that YOU did.

in your OP you stated that he tends to spook when you to start to work. And that the GoD is where he tends to bolt. If I am reading it correctly.

Spooking is usually caused by
A response to external stimuli: sudden loud noise, or apparent danger.
a response to internal stimuli:
pain , actual or anticipated.
or fear of pain and punishment.

(sometimes horses do spook to get out of work but that is a little different.)

You may be triggering a response from an incident from long ago and with which you had nothing to do.

Early on in his training, he may have spooked as an evasion, or from pain and was punished for it in such a way that he never forgot it.

I would do some careful experimenting and see exactly what work sets him off and when.

Also do some ground work to build his confidence in you and in himself.

On a lighter note, I know someone who had a horse that would almost have a come apart if someone moved the trash cans.
They were moved one day from one side of the barn to the other and the horse started carrying on, snorting and trying to spin around and acting all stoopit, like the trash cans had become horse killing trash cans of death.
The next time he walked by , the trash cans were in their usual spot and had been magically transformed back into ordinary trash cans and he walked by them as if nothing had happened.

This was a usually laid back horse that was good about most things, and didnt start or spook at almost anything.

That’s horses.

He’s currently turned out 24/7 in his own pasture with a great shed he shares with his neighbor (they both hate rain). His pasture is very well maintained, his diet was analyzed, and he’s currently just on balancer. i’ve worked with my vet for 5 years on his diet. The pastures are mowed regularly and he very, very rarely has ticks.

He’s had a pretty cushy life, but was freakishly hypersensitive when I came out to ride him as a 3 year old and they changed run-ins of horses because 2 were fighting over the fence. He was literally shaking until we switched the horses back to their original stalls/run-in paddocks.

He notices everything that is different in his environment. Move a trash can in his view? Yes, that is something to watch and maybe spook at when the work turns up.

We do and have done tons of groundwork. Groundwork has ‘saved me’ at shows!

[J-Lu]

@GraceLikeRain

I’d be super curious if you took a work around the issue approach for a few weeks. At this point, do you really have anything to lose? If you feel any tension as you get close to that area, make an intentional turn way before there’s even a thought of balking, do a half volte to change direction, turn early and shoulder in off the rail, ride a square, whatever is within his comfort zone to keep him thinking without raising the pressure. Keep him in his happy bubble and only move through that space when he’s totally swinging. My mare has the potential to be explosive and I’m working really hard to not create situations that teach her she has to “go there” to relieve tension. If she spooks I take the approach of “hmm. I’m sorry. I didn’t set you up for success and didnt read your tension early enough”. It’s not an approach I’ve ever taken before, nor is it one that I take with any of my other rides. For her specifically, I feel that the spook is like the valve trying to relieve pressure. Since adopting this mindset I’ve found that I stay calmer when she spooks or balks and we have fewer instances. Mine can also do quite an althetic dip and spin so I’m very motivated to do whatever keeps us happy as a team!

Oh man, I’ve been doing much of what you suggested! I don’t want to deal with going to the hospital so we’ve been working at the upper gaits at the proximal side of the arena. Like you mention, circles, squares and collected work after his warm up.

Great response and things I will keep in mind!! Thank you!!! THANK YOU!

[endlessclimb]

@J-Lu

I’m looking for ideas that will apply. I have responded to most of the posts explaining why they don’t apply, which I laid out (I think) in my first email. I’m hoping to get non-standard replies for approaches that might work with this particular horse. All of the declarative statements about what “is” wrong are mostly wrong.

Any comment on the pain response to the shoeing? How did the dorm go?

[xQHDQ]

My guy wears ear plugs, which we found helped a lot. Just an idea (a cheap one at that).