Horse Getting Frisky at Liberty

[TooMuchRebel]

First, a little bit about her personality. She’s a very in-your-pocket type mare, but one who will respect your space. Sweetest thing you’ll ever meet. No malicious intent anywhere. She absolutely loves ground work and just being with you, as shown by her excitement as she runs to greet you at the gate.

She’s recently been graduated from lead line training to liberty about a month ago after proving herself both on the ground and when riding bridleless. Doing absolutely wonderful with it. Not once has she been punished during this training, instead i use repetition and reward. If asking one way doesn’t work, i break it down further or redirect. She’s always been finicky about trotting in-hand, but will do it. Just a slight ear pin at lift off and that’s it (not flat against her head, but just enough to maybe call it a pin). In liberty she does it too, as expected. Never once acted out or acted like she wanted to act out, so it wasn’t a problem.

She’s only recently begun to willingly follow me at liberty (I have never “pressured” her to follow me, it is purely her decision), but she will kind of leap into a trot with her ears back and follow. Will do the same at a canter (she only canters if i get too far ahead).

As I’ve said before, she respects my space but obviously i don’t want her to assume we’re playing and her try to play with me like another horse. I do believe She’s just getting frisky, and i stop it and do something else when she seems to get too wound up. But do you think it’s something else? She doesn’t show any other signs of aggression, it’s simply a leap and possibly a head shake into whatever gait she chooses and she’s got her ears back. It immediately stops when i stop moving. I don’t think she’s asking me to do something else or to stop what we’re doing because as I’ve said before she has the liberty to stop when she pleases, and she has. I have not and will not ever force her forward during this. I might should mention I’ve also always got a whip (more of a fancy “stick” than a whip, the tail is no longer there). It certaintly may look angry to another person, but she has never once showed aggression towards me. However, I feel i should take all possibilities into consideration.

If she is just being frisky, what can i do to redirect the behaviour into something more calm? Just keep doing what im doing (asking for things other than following) or do y’all have a neat little trick up your sleeve? I don’t want this to get dangerous for either of us, but she clearly loves liberty work much much more than when she’s got a line attatched to her and I’d like to keep doing it because i enjoy it too. I apologize for rambling, if you’d like something clarified more just ask.

[Scribbler]

I would suggest that you stop any liberty work that is similar to her chasing you at speeds higher than a walk. It’s just getting her revved up in ways that could prove dangerous.

You don’t need your horse following you at trot and canter at liberty. Yes it’s sweet when it works OK. My friend gets her petite Arab gelding doing stuff like that and it works fine.

I simply do not trust my huge hunk of a mare not to get carried away. She is not allowed to approach me except at a walk, period. She is not allowed to trot or canter up to me. If she is moving at speed then I send her away from me. Or I tell her whoa, let her settle, and then whistle for her to approach at a walk.

[anon38350891]

The pinned ears are a big clue and a caution sign. What is the goal of your"liberty work"? Are you actually longeing her, since you mention a line? What are you trying to reinforce? Personally, I don’t think there’s any useful job a horse needs to do, that is helped by extensive following of humans.

[BEARCAT]

Can you post a video?

[tinah]

She’s reestablishing herself as herd boss, and you are reinforcing she’s in charge. Don’t be surprised when you get kicked.

[LaurieB]

If she is “following” you–I would call it chasing–with her ears pinned, I think what you’re doing is already dangerous. There is a time and place for horses to get “frisky” and it is not when you are on their turf with your back turned.

If I were you, I would stop the liberty training and do more directed ground work to reestablish which one of you is the boss.

[Where_sMyWhite]

You keep mentioning that your mare has the choice to do what she wants. That has put her in charge, not you.

IMO, you are asking for trouble and getting hurt by an animal that significantly out-weighs you.

Any “choice” she makes should be in response to a request by you. I want you to go left… humm, go left or go right, I think I’ll go left… right choice and praise.

I’ve personally never been a fan of bridle-less riding. Seems like a wreck just waiting to happen. Do you wear a helmet?

You keep mentioning that you never punish her. Have you watched horses interact in a herd? They communicate often by body language and “making faces”. If someone lower down on the pecking order doesn’t ‘obey’ the body language of someone higher in the pecking order, that lower ranking horse will get “punished” (they don’t re-request and praise/reward). Maybe only a nip or being kicked at (no contact) but they’re put back in their place. Punishment doesn’t have to fall into the ‘abuse’ category but it should be a result of cause and effect.

You need to be your mare’s herd leader, not her buddy…

[Bluey]

Just like when riding without a bridle or neck strap you don’t do that often, keep training and practicing with tack on the horse’s head, when doing liberty work is best to keep the real loose work at a minimum.
Keep training and practicing when the human can control it all without question.

Every time we give a horse the freedom to choose what to do from light cues and no way to restrain or reinforce what we ask we are playing with fire that the horse may choose wrong and all our previous training may not be enough to handle that.
The more they get to choose wrong, those pinned ears one way she is telling you her opinion, the less we should go there with that horse, but keep it slow and controlled for now.

When training, we can say that much good training can be hurt by one bad training moment.
It is up to us to try to have as few of those bad moments as we can manage.
Preventing them is one good way to go about it.

Also, some days are not good training days.
When it is cold and windy and horses are on edge is not the best time to train where a horse may not concentrate on what we are doing.

You are aware already of all this, why you are asking.
I would say, any time you see something is not coming along as you wish, don’t keep going there.
Change what you do until the horse becomes better trained so that doesn’t come into play.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Bluey

Also, some days are not good training days.
When it is cold and windy and horses are on edge is not the best time to train where a horse may not concentrate on what we are doing.

Bluey makes some excellent points. In addition to some days not being a good training day, some days the horse might not be in the right mental place for the training day you had planned.

With my mare, I always started with a bit of in-hand work to find out where her brain was on that day and determine the connection we had on that day. Sometimes the work I had planned was tossed out the window because the horse I had in front of me wasn’t the horse I’d planned to work with. Gotta train what is in front of you, not what you wish you had. You sometimes have a bad day, so do they

[TMares]

but she clearly loves liberty work much much more than when she’s got a line attatched to her

She loves it b/c she’s in charge. Please stop before you get hurt.

[ynl063w]

If it were me, I would put a lead shank on the horse anytime I want to move it from point A to point B, and I would pay a visit to the local shelter and pick out a dog for myself.

[Foxtrot_s]

Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse - if a saddle horse is the end result you want.

Horses that can do the Grand Prix bridle-less, have been trained with a bridle first, and so on.

[Scribbler]

@Foxtrot's

Seems like you are putting the cart before the horse - if a saddle horse is the end result you want.

Horses that can do the Grand Prix bridle-less, have been trained with a bridle first, and so on.

This. There are a few travelling pony shows currently with trainers demonstrating riding with no tack.

It is very compelling to the teenage girl that lives deep inside us but I cannot stress enough that this is demo ridung and essentially trick or performance riding.

A well trained horse, either dressage or Western, can usually be ridden in an arena with the reins dropped on the neck, off seat and leg and perhaps voice cues.

It is really no big mystery.

Taking the bridle right off and performing with nothing on the head is obviously another level of confidence in the horses training and some horses realize pretty quick that if there is nothing on their head they don’t need to listen.

Obviously no one with lick of sense would ride a horse outside of a contained space with nothing on its head.

Anyhow OP if you want to refine your communication with your horse refine your seat and leg aids to the point you can ride a pattern at walk and trot with your arms folded. Refine your aid for downward transition and halt from all gaits to weight or voice. A sliding or pop stop from canter to the word whoa is very very useful! Clicker training can help.

Once your seat and leg aids are confirmed enough that you can at least walk trot patterns, do downward transitions and halt immediately from all gaits with no reins, then you can try riding with a neck rope and eventually no bridle in a safe area.

Just goofing around with a horse at liberty does not teach this refinement of aids.

Unfortunately I see folks get mesmerized by the idea of riding with no tack, when they have neither the skills nor the desire to learn the skills to ride off seat and voice cues.

They imagine there is a Magical Shortcut that will let them connect with their horse without learning to be excellent riders.

There isn’t.

[skydy]

If I understand correctly, the OP is not on the horse while he/she is “liberty training”. He/she is on the ground running with a loose horse, which seems to me to be a very bad idea.

[Denali6298]

OP stop the liberty “training”, get properly fitted tack, and get yourself a trainer. If none of that is possible sell the horse and get a cat.

[Xanthoria]

When you have a lunge whip and make her move her feet, you’re in charge. When she chases you with ears back, she’s in charge. It’s not a game - it’s simple dominance. As others have said, don’t forget you’re small, slow and easily hurt compared to her…

“she’s got her ears back.” - this is a threat posture.

[Magicboy]

Is this a real post?

[luvmyhackney]

Wear a helmet for when she runs you over or kicks you in the head.

Not a great idea to do liberty with a dominant mare.

[Scribbler]

@luvmyhackney

Wear a helmet for when she runs you over or kicks you in the head.

Not a great idea to do liberty with a dominant mare.

There are liberty activities you can do safely with a dominant mare or indeed a stallion. But just because the horse has no tack on, does not mean the name of the game is that the horse gets to choose what to do.

People think liberty training is wonderful because it doesn’t “force” the horse to do anything.

But in actual fact it shows that you have complete control over the horse even without tack.

Its more about your ability to dominate the horse psychologically.

[LaurieB]

I hope the OP checks back in with us.