Horse in ICU after Vetera 3 Way Serial Number 3530057B

[JB]

@frugalannie

would the vaccine company have any responsibility for the loss?

Highly unlikely. They may offer, though not sure if they’d want to set that precedence if it’s not already set. No vaccination is 100% safe for 100% of the population. These vaccines aren’t new, BI isn’t a new company. I’m not sure how new the actual Vetera is, but even then, horses have gotten all 7 of those vaccinations at once, even if in 2+ needle sticks, for a very long time. The question then really would be whether there is a new/different adjuvant since it’s a 7-way vaccine.

@Angela_Freda

It is my understanding that they will only cover it if it was administered by a Vet as in this case .
This is why self administering vaccinations is not a great way to trim costs imo.

100% and Amen. Yes, I bet a situation like this is incredibly rare, with less severe but still requiring vet care less rare but still not all that common. To try to save the money on this (cost of the vaccinations + farm call) when there’s a risk of $1000s and $1000s of vet bills you’d incur because you DIY, it’s not worth it. I see it as paying an insurance premium by having the vet come out to do this. You may never need to use that “insurance”, but if you do, it likely far more than pays for itself

Plus, with the incredible shortage of (good) vets, and the recent (June '23) of a great many antibiotics going from OTC to Rx, it’s more important than ever to have a solid VCR (vet-client relationship) so you can get the care your horse needs when he needs it. And yes I realize this is sometimes easier said than done, see the above “vet shortage”, but a lot of people choose to DIY vaccines when they DO have access to a vet.

[JB]

I forgot to add - if this was a bad batch, there would be a lot more incidents, and since UC Davis had at least some of this batch (and probably a lot, given the time of year), they’d know about it

[Sfbayequine]

Know that UCD vaccinated two horses from the same bottle. One is fine. One is in the hospital. Let’s not go thinking this is a bad batch or something is wrong with the vaccine or BI. Don’t look for zebras here.

Trust me when I tell you this horse is special. If a catastrophic failure is going to happen - it’s gonna happen with this horse.

I know the faculty and the drug vets were putting their heads together. Everyone is pulling to get her out of this.

I’m trying really hard not to assign blame anywhere. Sh*t happens. We do the best we can. It’s horses. They’re gonna horse. Sometimes it fills your heart with joy. Sometimes they shatter you.

[skydy]

You’re dealing with this terrible situation very well.

Keep on keepin’ on, and trust yourself to do the right thing, you will. {{{{HUGS}}}} from Colorado.

[skydy]

@Demerara_Stables

@FjordBCRF

For anyone that has a horse that is reactive to flu/rhino, if you haven’t tried the intranasal vaccine, my VERY vax reactive horse has (yet) to react to the IN version.

Thanks! I’ve considered that but I do most of mine myself so I can spread them out without 5 farm calls. Not sure I trust myself to do the IN. Maybe worth a shot to have the vet do it next time.

If you are responsible for other people’s horses (being paid to take care of them) it would behoove you to have their vaccinations done by a veterinarian (documentation and baseline blood work being important in case of adverse reaction.)

This thread is a good example of why vaccinations shouldn’t be done on the cheap. The people who pay to keep their horses with you should be OK with the expense. It’s better to have documentation of the vaccines and that they were given properly, as well as a veterinarian present in case of any rapid anaphylactic reaction.

I used to do my own back in the day too, but that was a long time ago and they were my at home horses. I realized then, that the documentation, proper handling of vaccines etc… were important and worth the expense of farm calls and always had the vet out for vaccinations when I knew better.

[Demerara_Stables]

@skydy

If you are responsible for other people’s horses (being paid to take care of them) it would behoove you to have their vaccinations done by a veterinarian (documentation and baseline blood work being important in case of adverse reaction.)

This thread is a good example of why vaccinations shouldn’t be done on the cheap. The people who pay to keep their horses with you should be OK with the expense. It’s better to have documentation of the vaccines and that they were given properly, as well as a veterinarian present in case of any rapid anaphylactic reaction.

I used to do my own back in the

Oh look it’s @skydy here derailing yet another thread to harass me and talk about something she knows absolutely nothing about.

[Amy3996]

How about you and Skydy take this debate to PM to spare all of us the drama?

Let’s keep the focus where it belongs - support and jingles for @Sfbayequine’s mare.

[EmilyM]

For my horses that are reactive, I get flu/rhino intranasal, and it’s a huge improvement.

[trubandloki]

Still jingling for your horse @Sfbayequine!

I think your experience is a great reminder to people the importance of having the vet do vaccines.

I had a horse who had been vaccinated her whole life, not even a stiff neck. Then one day she had a nasty vaccine reaction. All over hives, which led to laminitis. I was so thankful my vet was there and could immediately deal with this.

[Montanas_Girl]

I commend you, @Sfbayequine, for the class you are showing while weathering such an awful, stressful situation.

Continued jingles for your horse to turn around soon.

[endlessclimb]

More jingles over here too.

I too used to do my own vaccines. For the last 8 or 9 years though, I haven’t. I want my name fresh in the mind of my vet should I ever have an emergent call. As long as their fees are reasonable (and I’m really flexible here, I’ve only felt ripped off by a vet a few times in 25 years), it’s worth it to me.

[CanteringCarrot]

Still jingling.

While it wasn’t a bad batch, I still don’t think it’s a bad idea for the manufacturer to know (they do, so moot point in this case). For me, it’s not about blame, it’s just about having more data.

The other thing about self vaccination, is that I don’t know how you can go to competitions or travel? Is it just very loose at some comps or states? I’ve not lived here very long, but there’s already been a few times that I’ve had to present my horses vaccination records, and I’m not sure a non-vet copy would’ve worked.

[TWH_Girl]

@Sfbayequine Following along and keeping you and your horse in my thoughts and prayers. Jingling for healing and peace for you.

As others have expressed, I am back to having a vet vaccinate my horses after doing them myself for years as well.

[Bogey2]

Sending more healing vibes!

[JB]

@CanteringCarrot

The other thing about self vaccination, is that I don’t know how you can go to competitions or travel?

The only ones I know that are, or may be, required to show proof of, are rabies and strangles. There may be some one-off venues that require flu/rhino but I don’t know if that’s a thing

Very few states even allow rabies to be shipped to a non-DVM, not even to the point that a non-DVM could submit an Rx. But even if you’re in one of those states and DIY the rabies, your horse isn’t legally vaccinated.

I do know some barns strangely require horses to be, and show proof of, WNV/EEE/WEE, which is always weird to me since horses are dead-end hosts for those, but I can’t say I’ve seen someone say a show venue has required those. There aren’t any requirements for cross-state travel for diseases for which the horse is a dead-end host, and I don’t even think strangles is a requirement anywhere (but happy to be corrected)

[beowulf]

Not exactly the same, but when my kitty had a horrible reaction to Solensia, I had to do all the leg-work in terms of reporting the reaction. My vet practice that administered the shot was completely hands off and indifferent, and I had to go to the ER because they couldn’t fit me in. (Sidenote: that was another wake up call to switch practices). At the ER, the vets confirmed it was a reaction and sent me home with a ton of paperwork. I sent it all to Zoetis, who then reached out immediately. Zoetis refunded me for the entire ER visit - which was not cheap. I think vets must be reluctant to take this on themselves, cause it’s not their money.

Anyway, continued jingles for you and Skye. I’m glad that there are multiple parties now putting their heads together to see you and Skye through.

[CanteringCarrot]

That makes sense.

I’ve had barns require a stranges vaccine for sure. I’ve also been to a competition that just said to bring a Coggins and vaccination records (no specifics). They didn’t look at either We’ve also needed a health certificate and proof of vaccinations to travel or to simply hail into a barn the next state over. A health cert seems easier to get if your horse sees the vet more frequently (or even twice a year for vaccinations), or if you have a well established relationship. So again, using the vet for vaccines is a good idea.

[DiamondJubilee]

All the shows I’ve attended in the US and Canada require proof of rhino/flu only. Almost none ask for proof of rabies anymore - maybe the odd show at a fairgrounds in the US (Syracuse Fairgrounds was the only show that has asked for rabies - they don’t even ask for rabies for horses to cross the border, well, they don’t need any proof for anything but a coggins and health certf.), but thats it. It used to be the other way. Always asked for rabies and never for rhino/flu. I have never been asked to show proof for strangles ever. And we show quite a bit and all over.

I was just at WEC Ohio the other month and they needed rhino/flu only. I did have to show coggins and health papers since I was out of state (I needed those anyway to cross the border).

I’ve always had my vet to the shots since I show and have to show the proof of rhino/flu. I just email the show a copy of my bill and make sure my vet puts my ponies show name on it (not their barn name).

[trubandloki]

@DiamondJubilee

All the shows I’ve attended in the US and Canada require proof of rhino/flu only. Almost none ask for proof of rabies anymore - maybe the odd show at a fairgrounds in the US, but thats it

That is so weird.

Everything I have done has asked for a negative Coggins and Rabies.

Some things have asked for additional stuff, but Rabies and Coggins seems like an always.

[Montanas_Girl]

USEF shows require proof of EHV-1 and influenza vaccinations within six months.

I’ve never seen any show grounds require Strangles vaccinations, though some boarding barns do. Some public facilities may require Rabies vaccinations, but I’ve never been to one.