Horse is a pain puzzle: does this even count as sound?

[alteredcarbon]

I have a horse that I am at a loss with. I am wondering how COTH feels about it and I am open to suggestions or ideas of what to try.

Horse is a gelding, early teens. Known issues include a past healed suspensory injury, extensive kissing spine with remodeling/degradation of the processes, chronic back pain that will not go away despite years of pasture rest, chronic poll and neck pain that is being investigated by X-ray very soon, hind hoof angle issues that we just can’t resolve despite multiple farriers (barefoot or otherwise), and recurring ulcers that respond to aggressive treatment but come back at the slightest provocation despite 24/7 turnout and access to forage and a good diet aimed at gut health.

His attitude has deteriorated in the last few years. He has gone from a sweet and tolerant horse to a very angry and reactive one. He is now boss of the herd and is stall aggressive, to the point I worry he may bite someone one day. He has some other quirks that overall make me think something is wrong.

I just don’t know what else to do? We tried Robaxin (no change), have and are currently treating for ulcers, tried magnesium (no change), he’s on vitamin E (2500iu extra), injected hocks, swapped his shoeing around. He gets chiro and bodywork and loves his back on track. I’m looking at his neck next, but he’s retired and a pain to haul so I’m limited to things I can do on a farm call (which is quite a lot - I have access to some great vets). I’m to the point of trying CBD and an animal communicator because I just don’t know what to do!

[phantomhorse]

@alteredcarbon

Known issues include a past healed suspensory injury, extensive kissing spine with remodeling/degradation of the processes, chronic back pain that will not go away despite years of pasture rest, chronic poll and neck pain that is being investigated by X-ray very soon, hind hoof angle issues that we just can’t resolve despite multiple farriers (barefoot or otherwise), and recurring ulcers

@alteredcarbon

His attitude has deteriorated in the last few years. He has gone from a sweet and tolerant horse to a very angry and reactive one.

@alteredcarbon

I just don’t know what else to do?

Let him go.

This horse is now screaming he is in constant pain with no end in sight. Be that end.

[alteredcarbon]

This has crossed my mind.

Much like a few other threads recently, it’s easier said over the internet than done in real life. But I have started to wonder. I just am not sure I’ve done “enough”? I could scope him, see if the ulcers are healing or not. We haven’t tried pain killers in a while for fear of exacerbating ulcers. I haven’t yet imaged his neck, but have that on the roster.

I’ve had this horse over a decade. I feel like I’m failing him, somehow missing something. There’s more diagnostics that could be done, some more invasive treatments, but he doesn’t tolerate trailering or stall rest very well so I’m afraid of trying anything that’ll ask those of him.

[Gardenhorse]

It sounds like you have done a lot for him. Unfortunately we can’t always fix them no matter how much we try.

[trakehners]

As our (small animal) vet told me after a rather sudden decline in one of my pets resulted in saying goodbye much sooner than expected, “the hardest and kindest thing we can do is let them go.” Freeing them from pain before there are more bad days than good is the last gift we can give them.

It’s been said a million times, but: horses are prey animals. They’re evolved to hide weakness for the sake of their own survival. If they’re telling us that something is wrong, that means something is wrong. Sometimes it’s fixable and sometimes it isn’t. It’s never a failure to give an animal a peaceful, dignified end. It is a failure if we keep them here and in pain just because we aren’t ready to let them go yet.

[Equestrianette]

The 4th vet I saw for my horse said that cervical issues can cause horses to be extremely reactive. My horse was very reactive and presented as back pain but a LOT of what I was experiencing was actually from neck pain. Landing on the back side of a jump? You’d imagine severe back pain for this horse. I’m sure it was a combination of both. He was this reactive with very mild and caught very early c6c7 facet arthritis. The X-rays were cheap. The treatment is cheap, steroids to the neck and addressing the root cause of his pain which was an undiagnosed injury to his right SI. Get the X-rays and see what the vet says, but at this age and with so many comorbidities I am also in the camp with a day too early than a day too late. You could also try keeping him on a daily dose of nexium as preventative for ulcers. Couldn’t hurt to try if it’s already this bad and you need cost effective therapies.

[Simkie]

@alteredcarbon

His attitude has deteriorated in the last few years. He has gone from a sweet and tolerant horse to a very angry and reactive one. He is now boss of the herd and is stall aggressive, to the point I worry he may bite someone one day. He has some other quirks that overall make me think something is wrong.

Neuro stuff is SO painful. It’s so awful to live with. You feel trapped in your body with no way to get away from the pain. You want to flee, the fight or flight response is always so triggered, but no matter where you go, the pain is still there.

It sounds like he’s telling you as loudly as he can that he HURTS.

What are you hoping to find with further imaging? Do you just need something in black and white that looks bad, so you can let him go? Or…?

If you just need more time to make this decision, I’d get him on a solid dose of gabapentin for nerve pain and Tylenol for general pain. ASAP, like, tomorrow. Consider it hospice care, but either do something to get him more comfortable, or make the call and put him down.

I’m very sorry you’re facing these hard decisions.

[Horsecrazy3]

You’ve done right by your horse. He’s in pain and showing it. As a prey animal he is also living in a state of constant fear of being eaten. If he was mine, I would euthanize. It is never an easy decision and it shouldn’t be. I’ve had to make that decision with 5 horses and 3 dogs. All beloved and still missed to this day.

[Halternatively]

This, a million times this. Thank you for restating it.

[Demerara_Stables]

I’d try the animal communicator. I’ve had wonderful experiences with Joanna of The Wild Thread: https://www.thewildthread.com/

[alteredcarbon]

@Simkie

What are you hoping to find with further imaging? Do you just need something in black and white that looks bad, so you can let him go? Or…?

Maybe? Or something to treat, really. Within reason.

It’s tough. He’s so good some days. But he’s weird. Like, doesn’t want to leave the shelter/go far from the barn area weird. Kicks out at nothing while standing around. Has a head toss/chin flip that randomly shows up - maybe when he bangs his head on something? Unsure.

It would be… tough, right now, to put him down. At least the fallout from others would seriously be. He’s boarded, and young, and visually looks very healthy and sound. Maybe I’m looking for a diagnosis just to deflect judgement from others?

[Simkie]

@alteredcarbon

Like, doesn’t want to leave the shelter/go far from the barn area weird. Kicks out at nothing while standing around. Has a head toss/chin flip that randomly shows up - maybe when he bangs his head on something?

These all sound like response to pain.

Take a look at everything you’ve said is wrong with him:

@alteredcarbon

Known issues include a past healed suspensory injury, extensive kissing spine with remodeling/degradation of the processes, chronic back pain that will not go away despite years of pasture rest, chronic poll and neck pain that is being investigated by X-ray very soon, hind hoof angle issues that we just can’t resolve despite multiple farriers (barefoot or otherwise), and recurring ulcers that respond to aggressive treatment but come back at the slightest provocation despite 24/7 turnout and access to for

Consider how he’s changed:

@alteredcarbon

His attitude has deteriorated in the last few years. He has gone from a sweet and tolerant horse to a very angry and reactive one. He is now boss of the herd and is stall aggressive, to the point I worry he may bite someone one day. He has some other quirks that overall make me think something is wrong.

I know this is very hard, but really think about what else this horse needs to do to convince you he’s miserable. Everything he’s doing is in response to the pain he feels. He’s got a long list of ailments that cause pain that you’ve not been able to treat.

Don’t let potential judgement from others stop you from doing what’s right for the horse. He’s got a very long list of issues that make ending his suffering the right choice.

[Horsecrazy3]

My last euthanized horse was 8. She was neurological. No one has ever questioned my decisions to euthanize. You are your horse’s advocate and making decisions for best care and quality of life should never be based on what other people think. Your vet’s advice is the only one that matters when making your decisions. I have a great relationship with my long term vets so I always ask if the horse was yours what would you do? They have been honest and say euthanizing is the kindest release from pain and fear for a prey animal. The decision is ultimately up to you how you want to proceed.

[hut-ho78]

With the wonderful care you provide, he still sounds miserable. Certainly test what you need to test to if it helps provide you peace with your decision. However, I think you have a very good and realistic understanding of what to do and why, it’s just that final acceptance that is so hard. Best wishes for whatever you decide. It’s an aching decision made when, as best as we can tell, our beloved animal is no longer happy in this world or we know the already compromised quality of life will continue to deteriorate. If he has become so unhappy as to be unsafe in the stall when he wasn’t before, it sounds like it is time. Don’t worry about what other people think. They aren’t the ones with pain. If they stay with horses, they will learn what happens when we wait too long and how very hard their own decisions are. Any comments kind or no, thank them for caring, and do what you believe to be right.

[TWH_Girl]

Don’t do or not do something for your horse based upon what others may think or say. You know the horse better than anyone else. Shame on anyone who would second guess someone’s painful decision to either let the horse go or make him comfortable if that is what you choose.
You don’t owe anyone explanations about what you do. It gets so much easier as you get older to not give credence to what others think.
I hope whatever path you choose, each of you finds some peace and comfort. You will know what to do if you sit and listen to yourself.

[alteredcarbon]

It would be an easier call if I had a neuro diagnosis. But I got a vague shrug from the last vet who I had do one (who really didn’t want to do the exam at all).

I just wonder if it’s a different kind of ulcers? Or a gut bacteria thing like one poster here had? What if all he needs is mesotherapy or something? That’s what’s really hard about this for me, and that’s why I’m still chasing a diagnosis. I’ve had several vets look at him, and most have just wanted to scope him again after a very short look-see.

[alteredcarbon]

@hut-ho78

If he has become so unhappy as to be unsafe in the stall when he wasn’t before

This is really what has me worried. He’s always been bottom of the totem pole, but now he’s The Boss. And a bit of a bully sometimes. He has always had a bit of ear pinning and head flip/hop in front at people standing outside his stall, but it was very mild and mostly centered around feeding time. Now, it’s constant. Perhaps it has something to do with the barn being set up in a way that the other horses can reach around into his stall (not to his feed bucket, but near it)? He’s been in a similar open front stall setup but the feed bucket side didn’t have a horse in it. Still, he’s this way whether there are horses in or not - and he’s inconsolable if the routine changes.

[JBCool]

@hut-ho78

With the wonderful care you provide, he still sounds miserable. Certainly test what you need to test to if it helps provide you peace with your decision. However, I think you have a very good and realistic understanding of what to do and why

@hut-ho78

Don’t worry about what other people think. They aren’t the ones with pain.

Both of these. I had to put one down an unsound, but otherwise healthy, beautiful & sweet 11yo and we just kept it quiet until it was over. Certain close friends had a chance to say goodbye, but most of the barn didn’t know until afterward. Truthfully, there was far less drama than we anticipated and more support than expected. He wasn’t sound, wasn’t in agony, but also would never get better and euthanizing him is the only way I could guarantee he wouldn’t end up in constant pain. He had already been through enough pain by that point.
You are the one who knows your horse, not us, but it sounds like he is miserable and it is time to say, “there’s nothing more we can do. I’m sorry, buddy, but this is the only way I can take away the pain.” And it is ok to have to tell him that. He will understand. (((((((HUGS))))))))

[JBCool]

@TWH_Girl

Shame on anyone who would second guess someone’s painful decision to either let the horse go or make him comfortable if that is what you choose.

Amen.

@alteredcarbon, I totally remember the “what if it’s just…?” feeling, but there may not be another diagnosis to be made. It sounds like he has enough issues that could add up to that much pain since they are layered on top of each other. The drastic behavior change may well be another hint. I had rehabbed my horse for several things 4(?) times, and when he came back the last time he just wasn’t quite the same. Close, but, not quite, and I think he was hurting more than we knew when he was “sound” and it was him saying, “I can’t take any more.”

[Simkie]

@alteredcarbon

It would be an easier call if I had a neuro diagnosis.

What do you mean? You have a neuro diagnosis in “extensive kissing spine with remodeling/degradation of the processes.”

That sort of spinal abnormality causes neuro pain. Neurological pain is like being shocked from the inside. Does that help to frame how his behavior has changed?