You know what?
Surgeons get cancer.
Their families get cancer.
To think that they would willingly suppress therapies that could save their family members would be obscene, were it not so laughable.
Well, gee whiz, deltawave! Don’t you know if it’s on the internet it MUST be true? :lol::lol::lol::lol:
BS- Go back to my post.
I posted a link to the AVMA which has a chart that spells out what the language means in each state. Very easy to read, spells out exemptions (ie farriery) and what is included in the scope of “veterinary medicine”. IF it was some big secret it would not be made public on the AVMA site.
I also posted a link that is public on the Indianas legislative site. No BS, no biased, zealous language, just what the proposal is. Exactly as it will be on the bill if passed.
If people would start looking at the facts and not only focusing on arguing their point and not ignoring useful posts something might get accomplished.
I think this is the point of some of the posts. If you actually have some sort of organization, you will have people whos sole interest is keeping up with the politics. All it takes is to check your states Sec of State site and related organizations (ie AVMA). I do it. You should too. Where else are they supposed to announce it? Find your address? Find every person whos been certified or has accepted a check from a horse owner for performing an alternative therapy? Please. We’re all adults and perfectly capable of doing a little research especially if it pertains to staying in your profession.
I apologize for the shortness, but its late and ive broken a finger.
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3045756]
They are using this type of therapy in Canada and Europe to treat tumors and other issues. It is classified as a medical device in these countries. The information is not wanted here because it is not a drug and the surgeons are not making a lot of money with it. It all goes back to who is making the money. Right now it is the doctors and the drug companies.[/QUOTE]
Hate to break it to you - but oncologists are those who treat tumors (with chemotherapy/radiation - possibly after a surgeon debulks the tumor to a managable size). Oncologists are NOT surgeons and DO NOT operate.
Canadian and European journals are available online. Haven’t seen any of those articles re: using LED therapy for treatment as “proof”. Where are they?
Your last few posts have convinced me that the vets DO need to be the ones in charge.
Pretty much because the credibility of your position took a big hit with the led cures fractures thing.
I look at it this way. Vets have been trained, I haven’t. So I defer to their knowledge ( not that I don’t ask a lot of questions LOL).
I know where to draw the line between nonsense and science.
Talk about circumnavigating the real issue…
The issue is the Indiana law and others in the wings are making it illegal to practice any alternative therapies unless you are a vet. It is not about licensing standards for practitioners, only about it being illegal. So, is that what many of you seem to want? That ONLY vets can do these alternative therapies?
I would be interested in whether the proffered laws require that the vet has to actually be trained in whatever alternative therapy they plan on offering. If there is no standard then what makes the vet any better at it than someone who has experience? Does simply graduating from vet school qualify them?
A better alternative would be licensing standards with clear cut rules about length and depth of training, updating credentials and apprenticing. That is a much more reasonable idea than allowing only vets to offer these therapies then then not even applying standards to them.
Yes I saw your link. There are thousands of horse owners who haven’t, don’t know it’s there, and don’t know this is an issue. Just because there is some obscure chart buried deep in the internet doesn’t mean peopel know about, as you yourself say: IF people would start looking.
Since she applied this therapy herself, the law wouldn’t apply to her. It doesn’t rule it out. So the thing that really should be ruled out, is not. But honest people making an honest living are felons.
I wasn’t talking about horse owners. The people who should care the most are the ones who feel threatened. The alternative practioners. And since it seems some of them have distaste for organized veterinary medicine and have made it clear that they know what the AVMA is, it shouldnt be too hard to locate their website.
And once on there main page (www.avma.org) its right there under advocacy w/options for state or federal. Doesn’t seem that buried to me? I would think if this was something that was going on in other states it would be something to look out for in your own state.
I’m not calling anyone stupid by any means, but the information is NOT that hard to find and isn’t some big secret. I don’t know how they are supposed to go about notifying about every single change to people who are not under an umbrella organization.
And if no one reading this thread knew about it, you can check on the status of professionals licensed by your state, as well as other political/legislature information at your very own states secretary of state website. It is public information, you just have to get out there and look. I mean this in an informative way, not a condescending way becuase I believe we all have a right to knowledge and it is a powerful thing to know what is going on in your state, especially as it pertains to your own profession.
There is a big difference between someone applying voodoo medicine to their own horse and someone with 3 days training getting paid for doing the same.
But how do I know that they are honest? Because they say so?
Sorry, but I would support the law. Without it there isn’t anybody to protect the consumer from themselves. About halfway through the thread I was on the fence but not now.
Does the state of Indiana regard massage therapy on humans as practicing medicine?
Is massage therapy the province of MD’s only?
If not, I’d consider it unlikely that the state would apply a stricter standard to the massage of horses.
Ghazzu…you’re so smart…you don’t know the answer?? Why not google it, oh right-not everything on the internet is correct-only what DW says is. So, since you don’t believe anything I say anyway (and I do know the answer here), I will let you find out for yourself. Ask DW where to look. She is omnicient.:lol:
Ghazzu-if doctors/surgeons/families of them get cancer, and they can’t do a ‘simple search’ on the internet to find a tea that has been proven on thousands of patients-oh wait, anecdotes…walking, talking living anecdotes that were cancer patients, that will literally cost them less than $100 to buy and make for their family, then I feel sorry for them. As others have so well put it, it’s out there for everyone to read-if you just look for it.:winkgrin:
I don’t need to know the answer–I don’t practice in Indiana.
Still, I would think that someone who “certifies” other people in a modality might have an inlking where they stand in the jurisdiction in which they ply their profession.
Guess it’s more productive to play Chicken Little on a bb, though.
Ghazzu-if doctors/surgeons/families of them get cancer, and they can’t do a ‘simple search’ on the internet to find a tea that has been proven on thousands of patients-oh wait, anecdotes…walking, talking living anecdotes that were cancer patients, that will literally cost them less than $100 to buy and make for their family, then I feel sorry for them. As others have so well put it, it’s out there for everyone to read-if you just look for it.:winkgrin:
If it’s essiac you’re referring to, and if you truly believe it is a cancer “cure”, then I sincerely hope you never need to put it to the test.
I am familiar with it, know DVMs who have used it, and none have yet managed to cure cancer with it.
But essiac is not being suppressed by surgeons, anyway.
There’s plenty of information on the stuff available.
[QUOTE=MassageLady;3045892]
Ghazzu-if doctors/surgeons/families of them get cancer, and they can’t do a ‘simple search’ on the internet to find a tea that has been proven on thousands of patients-oh wait, anecdotes…walking, talking living anecdotes that were cancer patients, that will literally cost them less than $100 to buy and make for their family, then I feel sorry for them. As others have so well put it, it’s out there for everyone to read-if you just look for it.:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
TEA? Are you out of your gourd? You think TEA is going to cure an 11 year old boy that has been battling a rare form of leukemia for SIX YEARS of his LIFE? Right at this very moment he is lying in a room at Sloan Kettering, trying to get the FDA to approve an experimental drug because it is LITERALLY his last resort?! Hell, if that’s the case, the family would no doubt buy all the tea in the entire world. Of course, they wouldn’t be able to get him to drink the magic tea as nothing stays in his stomach for very long.
Does it have preventative properties? Sure.
Guess what - You give me facts. Scientific papers that say TEA cures cancer. Then, and ONLY then, I just might give some thought to what you have to say.
To keep this horse related: I’ve been curious to see what your school is all about. Off to click on your link…if it involves giving my horse tea, I might just laugh myself to sleep tonight 
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3045676]
I NASA and the medical profession recognize that LED therapy works. Just google LEPT or low energy photon therapy.[/QUOTE]
I went to both the scientific database, Scirus, and medical, Medline, and found absolutely ZILCH on the medical use of LED on bone healing, outside the studies that removed all tissue prior to exposing the bone.
As a researcher who worked for NASA on bone loss and bone healing and was funded by NASA on bone tissue engineering I can tell you that what you say about NASA is FALSE. NASA never has recognized that light therapy works on bone. It works for other things such as certain skin and neural problems but not bone.
If you had actually read the stuff from NASA it was for treating oral ulcerations (that is SKIN to you) due to the chemo-therapy. No, this does NOT translate to bone.
Your argument is 0 for 2 with me now. At the same time you are proving the point to me that the law in Indiana is a good thing. If somebody with a fews days training thinks they know exactly how this stuff works and actually relates medicine from one area and say it will do the same in another, I KNOW they are shysters.
Reed
Actually, this thread has me so concerned I’m going to be keeping an eye out for similar bills in my state. Unfortunately, I’ll feel the need to support making these practices illegal; or at least force some sort of credentialing or licensing process. You people could really hurt or even kill a horse with your crazy notions.
I can’t help but wonder if the alternative practitioners on this thread had put this much energy into watering down the language, instead of trying to convince us tea cures cancer, they’d have actually accomplished something.
Some people complain that things aren’t fair, and some people get off their butts and do something about it. I’ve no use or sympathy for people that just sit around and complain. But I do wish y’all the best of luck in finding a job, or finding a way around the law (if the bill passes)
Guess what - You give me facts. Scientific papers that say TEA cures cancer. Then, and ONLY then, I just might give some thought to what you have to say.
I gave you links, read them, don’t read them-whatever. What boy is dying? Wouldn’t it be worth the $20 to buy the 4 herbs and at least try to get this to him?? Is his life worth $20? Of course it is.:yes: Herbs are powerful, why do you think God put them here?
You people could really hurt or even kill a horse with your crazy notions.
Massage has never hurt or killed an animal. NOr has LED…acupressure, aromatherapy, etc.
instead of trying to convince us tea cures cancer
Let me ask you this…during the winter time don’t most people say to take vitamin C?? Drink orange juice when you feel sick? Why…because it helps build the immune system. Do you believe that eating healthy will make you healthy? Then why wouldn’t you believe that certain herbs can help you fight off disease? The 4 herbs in this tea cleanse the liver and the blood, helping them to fight off the cancer cells-which are basically cells gone nuts. It puts the body back to where it should be so they stop ‘going nuts’. It can be used on other ailments also. I used it on my puppy that had a tumor growing on her lip-I started giving her this tea everyday, and the tumor disappeared in less than 2 weeks.
I find it sad that people won’t even try a tea that costs less than $30 to make, won’t harm you in anyway-and has been proven to help cancer patients, yet they will go in willingly for chemo/radiation treatments that have been proven over and over again NOT TO WORK, pay an exhorbitant amount, be sicker than a dog, and still most likely die. And you call us crazy?
Dr Brusch presented his findings after ten years of research. He had come to the conclusion that “Essiac is a cure for cancer, period.” All studies done at laboratories in the United States and Canada support this conclusion.
Whereupon the Federal Government issued a gag order and said, “You’ve got one of two choices, either you keep quiet about this or we’ll haul you off to military prison and you’ll never be heard of again,” so we never heard another word out of him.
Brusch’s Essiac patients included Ted Kennedy’s son who had a sarcoma in his leg, and who had his leg amputated. He was being treated at the time by the Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts. Dr. Farber didn’t know how to save him, because no-one had ever lived with this type of sarcoma. So what he did was go to Dr. Brusch and say, how are we going to save Ted Kennedy’s son? And Dr. Brusch made the suggestion to put him on Essiac, and after they did, he didn’t have a cancer cell in his body. But all this information has been hidden from the public.
And I personally know a lady who was diagnosed with colon cancer, she was ready to go in for her chemo, but her Dad had been looking into other ways to help her. He read about the Essiac formula and got it for her, she took it instead of the chemo…and her cancer is gone. :yes:
What does it take to get people to try things that have been proven over and over to help? The cost is minimal compared to other treatments-and NO SIDE EFFECTS. And again…WE are the crazy ones??:lol:
Well the OP was. Maybe you should check the thread title.
[quote=PineTreeFarm;3045846]
There is a big difference between someone applying voodoo medicine to their own horse and someone with 3 days training getting paid for doing the same.[/QUOTE]
Really?
But how do I know that they are honest? Because they say so?
Sorry, but I would support the law. Without it there isn’t anybody to protect the consumer from themselves. About halfway through the thread I was on the fence but not now.
You don’t need a law for this. You are perfectly free rihgt now to have your vet fleece you by overcharging you for a service in which they have 0.00 days training but are more qualified to do so than someone with 3 or 6 days training or 10 years. And you know they’re honest, because they said so and they wrote the law that no one else but they can do it. I thought vets were in the business of healing animals, when did they become consumer advocates? What other profession has this kind of oversight over others? Where is the outrage that a vet with absolutely no training and which he or she knows absolutely squat about, can legally perform a service that someone with ten years training, and testing and licensing can’t?
[QUOTE=MassageLady;3046190]
I gave you links, read them, don’t read them-whatever. What boy is dying? Wouldn’t it be worth the $20 to buy the 4 herbs and at least try to get this to him?? Is his life worth $20? Of course it is.:yes: Herbs are powerful, why do you think God put them here?
Massage has never hurt or killed an animal. NOr has LED…acupressure, aromatherapy, etc.
I find it sad that people won’t even try a tea that costs less than $30 to make, won’t harm you in anyway-and has been proven to help cancer patients, yet they will go in willingly for chemo/radiation treatments that have been proven over and over again NOT TO WORK, pay an exhorbitant amount, be sicker than a dog, and still most likely die. And you call us crazy?
And I personally know a lady who was diagnosed with colon cancer, she was ready to go in for her chemo, but her Dad had been looking into other ways to help her. He read about the Essiac formula and got it for her, she took it instead of the chemo…and her cancer is gone. :yes:
What does it take to get people to try things that have been proven over and over to help? The cost is minimal compared to other treatments-and NO SIDE EFFECTS. And again…WE are the crazy ones??:lol:[/QUOTE]
Certainly can’t argue that. Good posting. I sure do wish Caballus was here:yes:
[QUOTE=Lookout;3046217]Really?
You don’t need a law for this. You are perfectly free rihgt now to have your vet fleece you by overcharging you for a service in which they have 0.00 days training but are more qualified to do so than someone with 3 or 6 days training or 10 years. And you know they’re honest, because they said so and they wrote the law that no one else but they can do it. I thought vets were in the business of healing animals, when did they become consumer advocates? What other profession has this kind of oversight over others? Where is the outrage that a vet with absolutely no training and which he or she knows absolutely squat about, can legally perform a service that someone with ten years training, and testing and licensing can’t?[/QUOTE]
Right again, important thing to remember though, when a vet or human doctor labels their operation with PC, or LLP, or any similar type appelation they are telling the world that they are a business. A business attempting to make a profit. This tends to put humanitarian issues on the back burners.
They will do what is in the best interests of their business. If it includes lobbying for protectionist or controlling legislation they will do so. With the vast reserves of backing by the pharmaceutical companies who have most legislators in their pockets anyway it’s not hard to get accomplished.
George
