What I do know is that the information you posted is 100% inaccurate. And if you are getting your information on other legislation from the same, or similar source, it is also likely to be inaccurate.
Are you talking about sb316? If so, how are we inaccurate? I too, went to school and can read.:winkgrin:
Nope. I listed the Bills in my post.
Because the laypeople are too busy arguing on the internet instead of forming associations and acting as a unified voice.
It’s not rocket science.
I don’t think anyone should take this thread as representative of the entire equine therapy field or anything. I’ve used quite a few dentists and massage therapists and even a couple chiros and they were all fully paid up members of some organization or other and had adequate training and references they were happy to provide, including vet references. Because I won’t hire anyone who can’t prove their credentials.
(Except for shoers :eek: you’re kind of on your own there)
I actually kind of wish that the vet profession would go more specialized, instead of trying to say every vet is fully qualified in every modality. It would be nice to see more vets board certified in equine specialty and in sub-specialties like lameness or repro instead of having to rely on word-of-mouth to find someone with that knowledge and experience.
[QUOTE=JHUshoer20;3049509]
What makes you think favorable legislation to protect the integrity of your trade makes you less free? I hear this from horseshoers too. They have no problem buying a license to drive a car (in the interest of public safety) They have no problem buying a license to catch fish, yet as soon as the thought of a license to protect their trade comes up they scream like their about to be sent to a gulag. Just what’s up with that?
George[/QUOTE]George … its not the licensing, either … its that the AMVA wants ONLY VETERINARIANS to administer this care or to supervise care by an authorized professional. So, I dunno but at the ripe age of 56 I’m not about to go back to college for 8 years to obtain a veterinarian degree just so I can give or suggest a Hom. remedy or administer a non-invasive massage or do any energy/vibrational work. How many horse owners are going to want or will be able to pay a veterinarian fee in addition to the professional fee of the chiro, massage therapist, homeopathic, whomever?
… states-regulated treatments and therapies usually include Acupuncture, Acupressure, Chiropractic, Imaging, Physiotherapy and Massage Therapy. Treatments and therapies such as Aromatherapy, Homeopathy, Hypnosis, Relaxation Therapy, Therapeutic Touch and Vibrational Medicine are generally not regulated.
A suggested approach is to distinguish regulated from unregulated modalities. A veterinarian, or non-veterinarian under the supervision of a veterinarian, would be authorized to perform therapies that are regulated by the state. On the other hand, only veterinarians could proceed with unregulated therapies, with the informed consent of the owner and discussion of conventional alternatives. --The AVMA Model Practice Act
Now, how many vets are going to treat an animal with “unregulated” therapies like aromatherapy, homeopathy, hypnosis, touch or vibrational med? Just review the debates here on this board to see what most think of them.
—“Now, how many vets are going to treat an animal with “unregulated” therapies like aromatherapy, homeopathy, hypnosis, touch or vibrational med? Just review the debates here on this board to see what most think of them.”—
You answered yourself there.
Pony up with studies that prove those work more than by happenstance, if at all and you won’t have a problem.
As long as it is hard to prove that all that works and why, not guessing, not testimonials, but real studies PROVING if, how and why any of that works and the contraindications, well, maybe it should not be available to the public as a true healing modality?
Umm, Homeopathy has been around longer than conventional, Western Medicine and the only reason it faded out was because the AMA, upon convening, threatened any MD who even HAD a client who used Homeopathy with loss of his/her license to practice medicine. Homeopathy is “proven” every day by hundreds of millions of people, including infants, children, the elderly and animals, fish, birds, even plants from all reaches of the earth. It’s about energy and ALL of us are about “energy” whether one chooses to believe it or not. Hypnosis has long been used in Psychotherapies. “Laying on of hands” goes back to the days Jesus walked the earth. Herbs, also, have been used since the days of Jesus and in case you’ve forgotten, are the base of many of our pharmaceuticals today. Anyone who has had a medical condition that has become chronic and incapacitating over years, unable to be eradicated or healed by conventional, Western medicine and then had the condition eliminated/healed after one of these healthcare practices will attest to the efficacy of such. There’s more than “scientific provings” and a whole lot THAT does when the damned pharmaceuticals still choose to manufacture and push drugs that cause possibly severe, even fatal, side effects! There’s a whole lot more to “life” than what grows in petri dishes. And a whole lot more that we humans haven’t even BEGUN to explore or understand.
[QUOTE=caballus;3049747]
Umm, Homeopathy has been around longer than conventional, Western Medicine and the only reason it faded out was because the AMA, upon convening, threatened any MD who even HAD a client who used Homeopathy with loss of his/her license to practice medicine. Homeopathy is “proven” every day by hundreds of millions of people, including infants, children, the elderly and animals, fish, birds, even plants from all reaches of the earth. It’s about energy and ALL of us are about “energy” whether one chooses to believe it or not. Hypnosis has long been used in Psychotherapies. “Laying on of hands” goes back to the days Jesus walked the earth. Herbs, also, have been used since the days of Jesus and in case you’ve forgotten, are the base of many of our pharmaceuticals today. Anyone who has had a medical condition that has become chronic and incapacitating over years, unable to be eradicated or healed by conventional, Western medicine and then had the condition eliminated/healed after one of these healthcare practices will attest to the efficacy of such. There’s more than “scientific provings” and a whole lot THAT does when the damned pharmaceuticals still choose to manufacture and push drugs that cause possibly severe, even fatal, side effects! There’s a whole lot more to “life” than what grows in petri dishes. And a whole lot more that we humans haven’t even BEGUN to explore or understand.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, all talk, no PROOF.
We know what medicines do and why, when they work and don’t.
We don’t go blind at it and say it worked, we think, or sorry, it didn’t, better luck next time.
[QUOTE=Bluey;3049698]
As long as it is hard to prove that all that works and why, not guessing, not testimonials, but real studies PROVING if, how and why any of that works and the contraindications, well, maybe it should not be available to the public as a true healing modality?[/QUOTE]
You mean like mammography? There is no solid proof that it increases breast cancer survival rates in pre-menopausal women, yet annual mammograms are recommended for all women over 40 regardless. Even after menopause the studies are unconvincing.
We know what medicines do and why, when they work and don’t.
We don’t go blind at it and say it worked, we think, or sorry, it didn’t, better luck next time.
And yet, that’s what happens to most chemo patients!:yes:
As long as it is hard to prove that all that works and why, not guessing, not testimonials, but real studies PROVING if, how and why any of that works and the contraindications, well, maybe it should not be available to the public as a true healing modality?
Well…my studies are ACTUAL horses that are running and Winning again! Those that hadn’t won a race in over a year, after I worked on them for less than a month-they’d be in the Winner’s Circle. One trainer I worked for (it’s actually on my site if you care to look)had a 75% win rate while I worked for him-that didn’t include all the 2nd’s and 3rd’s he took.:winkgrin:
But I’m sure you will say something like ‘unless you had a placebo effect (which placebo’s don’t work on horses :winkgrin:), and a 10yr study on that horse, it proves nothing. It was not just one horse-it was many. They ALL were better with massage. Believe it, dont’ believe it-doesn’t matter to me, because I KNOW it works!
Studies are nothing more than testimonials from people saying it works, the someone writing it down…keeping logs.
And right now…it is available to the public!:yes:
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;3049801]
You mean like mammography? There is no solid proof that it increases breast cancer survival rates in pre-menopausal women, yet annual mammograms are recommended for all women over 40 regardless. Even after menopause the studies are unconvincing.[/QUOTE]
First: You are talking statistics, not if the procedure works, which it does.
Second: That is not a medical procedure itself, but a diagnostic one.
Bad example, but I am sure you can come with some other.:yes:
Other than some exceptions, we do have a body of scientific proof and undersanding in traditional medicine that is non existent in alternative modalities and that is what makes them, by definition, “alternatives”.
[QUOTE=caballus;3049747]
It’s about energy and ALL of us are about “energy” whether one chooses to believe it or not. [/QUOTE]
Trust the Force, Luke.
Well…my studies are ACTUAL horses that are running and Winning again! Those that hadn’t won a race in over a year, after I worked on them for less than a month-they’d be in the Winner’s Circle. One trainer I worked for (it’s actually on my site if you care to look)had a 75% win rate while I worked for him-that didn’t include all the 2nd’s and 3rd’s he took.
And your control group was? How do you know the trainer didn’t change their training techniques, diet, or just get in a high grade of horse, etc.? Did the trainer’s win rate go down immediately after you worked for him? It’s like saying becasue I am the only one riding my horse that is why he wins. Hmmm, I bet others could do as well of better.
Reed
Alternate medicine falls under the science of Quantum physics. It has to do with vibrational energy. Western medicine falls under chemistry. Not all chemists understand physics and vice versa. So the vets are trying to apply chemistry to a physics problem. It just won’t make sense to them. That doesn’t mean that physics is wrong. Just that the wrong information or approach to the problem is being taken.
[QUOTE=MassageLady;3049830]
And yet, that’s what happens to most chemo patients!:yes:
Well…my studies are ACTUAL horses that are running and Winning again! Those that hadn’t won a race in over a year, after I worked on them for less than a month-they’d be in the Winner’s Circle. One trainer I worked for (it’s actually on my site if you care to look)had a 75% win rate while I worked for him-that didn’t include all the 2nd’s and 3rd’s he took.:winkgrin:
But I’m sure you will say something like ‘unless you had a placebo effect (which placebo’s don’t work on horses :winkgrin:), and a 10yr study on that horse, it proves nothing. It was not just one horse-it was many. They ALL were better with massage. Believe it, dont’ believe it-doesn’t matter to me, because I KNOW it works!
Studies are nothing more than testimonials from people saying it works, the someone writing it down…keeping logs.
And right now…it is available to the public!:yes:[/QUOTE]
Honestly, bringing race track performance as proof in testimonials is not very promising to proving anything.
I had trainers tell me that changing their rabbit’s foot to the other pocket is what made a horse form improve so much, or something to that effect.
You could not find a less scientific bunch of people to tell you what works or not, why a horse now runs better.
Everyone will give you a different, just as goofy reason, many completely believing it.
To have scientific proof of something, you need independent, scientifically run studies with the proper protocol for what you are trying to prove.
How familiar are you with PT, pysical therapy?
There is much done there and massage is part of it, a kind of massage that is just one more of many modalities.
So, yes, massage does has some measurable results in the context of a more extensive process, but as a field all it’s own, in horses and to say it does this and that is NOT proven yet, I don’t think, to make it what you are saying it does.
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3049862]
Alternate medicine falls under the science of Quantum physics. It has to do with vibrational energy. Western medicine falls under chemistry. Not all chemists understand physics and vice versa. So the vets are trying to apply chemistry to a physics problem. It just won’t make sense to them. That doesn’t mean that physics is wrong. Just that the wrong information or approach to the problem is being taken.[/QUOTE]
Speechless at that statement, really.:lol:
As someone said, believing in THE FORCE?
Most people go to church for faith questions and yes, there have been faith healers out there for thousands of years and all along people lived if lucky for maybe 35 years, many dying like flies before that, under the care of those healers.:no:
Seriously, chemistry and physics are classifications in science.
Any scientist is familiar with ALL of the scientific fields at the level you imply there.
How much “science” do you know?
Bluey, How well do YOU know Quantum physics?
Trust the Force, Luke.
Um, what is the heart except one ELECTRICAL (read energy since electricity IS energy and DOES produce frequencies which DO resonate as a matter of physics) … organ. Any misfire in the electrical circuit and the holder of that misfiring organ is in deep kaka.
Polarities = Magnetic = MRI’s = MAGNETIC RESONANT IMAGING … more energy.
Cell contain nuclei … contain ENERGY to exist.
Trust the Force, Luke? If you ain’t trustin’ the force and you ain’t living with “energy” then you ain’t livin’ at all, Sweetie. GRIN
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3049907]
Bluey, How well do YOU know Quantum physics?[/QUOTE]
Sufficient to know what I am talking about and what makes sense.
What part of quantum physics are you referring to here?
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3049862]
Alternate medicine falls under the science of Quantum physics. It has to do with vibrational energy. Western medicine falls under chemistry. Not all chemists understand physics and vice versa. So the vets are trying to apply chemistry to a physics problem. It just won’t make sense to them. That doesn’t mean that physics is wrong. Just that the wrong information or approach to the problem is being taken.[/QUOTE]
So please explain to me how M-Theory (includes string theory), Shreodinger’s Equations, or both the General and Special Theories of Relativity apply? (I took quantum physics in university). Do you think that the new muon collider will answer all of medicine’s problems because they anticipate being able to model how matter gains mass from energy in the experiments.
Oh, many scientists understand that chemistry, engineering, biology are simply applications of physics. So, you are saying absolutely nothing new there other than to show ignorance about the scientific field.
Um, what is the heart except one ELECTRICAL (read energy since electricity IS energy and DOES produce frequencies which DO resonate as a matter of physics) … organ. Any misfire in the electrical circuit and the holder of that misfiring organ is in deep kaka.
Polarities = Magnetic = MRI’s = MAGNETIC RESONANT IMAGING … more energy.
Cell contain nuclei … contain ENERGY to exist.
Trust the Force, Luke? If you ain’t trustin’ the force and you ain’t living with “energy” then you ain’t livin’ at all, Sweetie. GRIN
That electrical energy is the result of chemical reactions exchanging electrons, e.g. the heart relies on the calcium/potasium charge differential. Misfires, as deltawave can attest, can be due to things other than electricity such as lack of blood supply.
Cell nuclei contain NO “energy”. That is left to the mitochondria and that energy is in the CHEMICAL form of adenosine triphosphate. I suggest you read a cell biology book. You are continuing to make “alternative” practitioners look like uneducated kooks.
Reed
There’s NO science to it from what I’ve seen. No data, no experiment using the scientific method…but we’ve got a “case study” of helping out some chick in the bath room. :rolleyes:
Anything that moves creates energy and frequencies … do cells not move?
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
