I see we’ve suspended the laws of thermodynamics, now…
OK, well I’ll rephrase what I wrote, then … cells convert potential energy into kinetic energy. Kinetic energy = the energy of movement itself. Therefore every cell contains energy. Either potential or kinetic as defined. Kinetic energy produces frequency. Is that not correct?
No data, no experiment using the scientific method…but we’ve got a “case study” of helping out some chick in the bath room.
Let me ask you this…could you have reduced her pain significantly, without the use of drugs? As I did?
Honestly, bringing race track performance as proof in testimonials is not very promising to proving anything.
I had trainers tell me that changing their rabbit’s foot to the other pocket is what made a horse form improve so much, or something to that effect.
You could not find a less scientific bunch of people to tell you what works or not, why a horse now runs better.
Everyone will give you a different, just as goofy reason, many completely believing it.
There are some there, granted-but there’s some great trainers there also-which is one that I worked with…not only was he a trainer, his dad and brother are both jockeys. He grew up with horses, at the track. He knows his stuff-and trust me when I say-he was skeptical of me for a long time. He ‘tested’ me for months, to see if I could also find where the horse was sore. We agreed everytime. Yes, of course he rode the horse correctly-but I helped to alleviate the pain so that he could do so.
This entire thread has gotten so out of hand it’s ridiculous. This wasn’t started to be a thread about ‘does it work’…this is a thread about ‘our freedom of choice’. I suggest that we keep it at that-and let’s stop throwing mud at each other. If you don’t believe in natural ways-fine-don’t use them!! But there are many, many that do…and WHO ARE YOU to say they can’t? Who are you to say I’m not allowed to help anymore horses that are lame, sway back, EPM, etc.??
If you don’t live in Indiana, where this is happening-why are you even posting on this thread…since it doesn’t pertain to you? If you do not use or provide natural therapies…it also doesn’t pertain to you-does it? So why are you posting here?
I won’t be back, I’ve said what I have to say-I will go on and do what I can to stop this travesty. Anyone that would like to help-please pm me.
Oh jeez, I take ONE night off to go out and pretend I’m a kid again and go to a punk rock concert (owwwww, I’m too old for that, am I EVER sore, must be all that kinetic energy in the front row! :D) and we are into quantum physics and homeopathy?
Homeopathy is an interesting example of a field that is sort of stuck in time. It hasn’t really disappeared, exactly, but it is virtually the SAME field it was 150 years ago. No progress, no evolution. Kind of like phrenology. Kind of what happens when something better and more reasonable comes along: the old and unproven stops growing and is sort of left in the dust by all but the inveterate dinosaurs who believe that evolution is for sissies. :lol:
In science (even Quantum Physics) if you don’t change, you don’t survive.
I heartily agree that the choice to use alternatives ought to be up to the consumer. The EDUCATED consumer. With QUALIFIED and credentialed providers available to choose from. As this thread so very, very readily demonstrates, just because one has set oneself up as an expert, doesn’t mean one knows diddly squat beyond the “invent it yourself” language of pseudoscience. Caveat emptor, indeed. 
Somehow I don’t think the laws of energy have changed much since creation. Energy still is alive and well today being … well, energy. Its free for the taking … an no one needs a license to use it.
[QUOTE=caballus;3050737]
Somehow I don’t think the laws of energy have changed much since creation. Energy still is alive and well today being … well, energy. Its free for the taking … an no one needs a license to use it.
;)[/QUOTE]
They do if, say, as an example, they are going to wire my house or x-ray my broken leg.:yes:
I have a large plate and 7 screws on my forearm.
Anyone using certain kinds of energy, like ultrasound, better be licensed and know not do it where that hardware is.
And so on.
This whole issue illustrates the evils of incrementalism. It reminds me of the famous writings of Pastor Martin Niemoeller http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came…
Most horseshoers don’t seem to care about this as long as their temporarily exempt. Their #1 organization the AFA has turned it’s back to this issue.
All equine related trades have the right to make a living. If vets are successful at this horseshoers and trimmers will be standing alone and nobody will be there to speak for us. When this stuff is written into law a simple amendment is all that’s needed to add more people to it. It’s that simple. Out of business with the stroke of a pen.
The reason they are passing these laws so quickly and easily is due to lack of opposition. When opposition is heard these things slow down to a stop. New Jersey is an example that comes to mind. Opposition was mounted there and the issue is now dead in that state.
Forget about what you might think about massage or animal psychics or whatever. This is about a power grab plain and simple and it threatens everybody.
George
Heck you don’t say they’ve the audacity to seek to bring in legislation to protect from the untrained, incompetetent, inept and unregulated.
What is the world coming to :eek:
[QUOTE=Thomas_1;3050893]
Heck you don’t say they’ve the audacity to seek to bring in legislation to protect from the untrained, incompetetent, inept and unregulated.
What is the world coming to :eek:[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately no they don’t. That would be licensing and that would be a good thing. The legislation being discussed here is to throw people out of business.
Occupational licensing has historically been lobbied for by the people in the licensed occupation. Usually by an association or craft guild.
If the people here were a little better organized they could do that and be safe from this. Problem is they don’t have the luxury of time and I doubt if they have much money to pay a lobbying firm.
George
There is a BIG difference between legislation to forbid everyone but vets from practicing alternative methods and licensing those that are practicing to weed out the “quacks”. We are not against some sort of licensing or testing to determine that these people are qualified. That is the point here. They want to limit it to ONLY vets.
For some reason this is just an impenetrable concept here. What do you expect in a place where laws of energy keep changing. :rolleyes: Speaking of which, if you don’t get it right at first, or miss most of a concept, you have to change to try and keep up. If you’re right, you’re right, and you continue to be right. The science doesn’t change, just the understanding of it does.
Actually, I understand perfectly.
For some reason none of the alternative folks posting on this thread understand much at all. In fact, you’re not even interested in learning how the legislative process works. A defeatist attitude. No surprise that you’re running around in circles.
You don’t need to do much of anything except pick up the phone. If you become aware of a Bill, you arrange to speak in opposition to it. If you think that’s impossible, you haven’t tried. Do any of y’all REALLY think that the only people walking the halls of your state capitol are highly paid lobbyists?
I suppose it’s just easier to sit around an invent stories about conspiracies, needing millions of dollars to hire lobbyists, or argue incessantly on BB’s about holistic medicine. The trouble is - you’re not actually accomplishing anything. If you hope to save your professions, you better hope to God someone else is fighting your legislative battle. No one is going to advocate for you except YOU.
That’s the way it works.
Now I’ll just sit back and read a couple of more pages of lame excuses as to why it just can’t be done. :rolleyes::sigh:
We are not sitting back and doing nothing. The point of this thread was to let more people know that this is happening. I have been working with a practioner that was a BIG part of getting the laws changed (but not enough) in FL. Right now we are trying to get something going on a national level. We need anyone involved at the state level (in an organization or privately) to help with this. The problem is that in many states already, it is a felon to do what the practioners are doing. They cannot just stand up and say “here I am come prosecute me”. So the practioners out there are out on their own and there is no real way to track down all the others. This very type of problem occured in Texas. The state said they would grandfather in the existing dentists that graduated from a dental school. The school gave the state a list. The state then went out and hit every dentist on that list with a cease and desist order. So in many areas these practioners have to do business “under the radar”. Many are unaware who the others out there are, even if they are right around the corner. Any horse owner or practioner that wants to join this at the national level, please pm me and I will get you in touch with others that will help and are already in this fight.
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3051153]
We are not sitting back and doing nothing. The point of this thread was to let more people know that this is happening. I have been working with a practioner that was a BIG part of getting the laws changed (but not enough) in FL. Right now we are trying to get something going on a national level. We need anyone involved at the state level (in an organization or privately) to help with this. The problem is that in many states already, it is a felon to do what the practioners are doing. They cannot just stand up and say “here I am come prosecute me”. So the practioners out there are out on their own and there is no real way to track down all the others. This very type of problem occured in Texas. The state said they would grandfather in the existing dentists that graduated from a dental school. The school gave the state a list. The state then went out and hit every dentist on that list with a cease and desist order. So in many areas these practioners have to do business “under the radar”. Many are unaware who the others out there are, even if they are right around the corner. Any horse owner or practioner that wants to join this at the national level, please pm me and I will get you in touch with others that will help and are already in this fight.[/QUOTE]
And how many of you crying here, because the legislative process is what it is, were so for passing that poorly drafted, sorry slaugher ban bill?
What does around comes around.
You take someone’s rights away, closing a well regulated, useful industry and now cry because your own, very questionable practices, are being questioned and some are asking for supervision and accountability?
When we give others the right to take outhers rights away, we should not be surprised if they also want to interfere with what we consider our rights.
Like JSwan said, learn to play the game, if you want to stay in it.:yes:
[QUOTE=redleaflady;3051153]
We are not sitting back and doing nothing. The point of this thread was to let more people know that this is happening. I have been working with a practioner that was a BIG part of getting the laws changed (but not enough) in FL. Right now we are trying to get something going on a national level. We need anyone involved at the state level (in an organization or privately) to help with this. The problem is that in many states already, it is a felon to do what the practioners are doing. They cannot just stand up and say “here I am come prosecute me”. So the practioners out there are out on their own and there is no real way to track down all the others. This very type of problem occured in Texas. The state said they would grandfather in the existing dentists that graduated from a dental school. The school gave the state a list. The state then went out and hit every dentist on that list with a cease and desist order. So in many areas these practioners have to do business “under the radar”. Many are unaware who the others out there are, even if they are right around the corner. Any horse owner or practioner that wants to join this at the national level, please pm me and I will get you in touch with others that will help and are already in this fight.[/QUOTE] Sadly enough what you say is true. Here in Pennsylvania Horse Dentists that were turned in arrested and prosecuted were shamefully reported by other dentists. Out of jealosy those who weren’t working turned in those who were. Under our system once something becomes a law it’s almost impossible to get rid of. It needs to be derailed before it gets that far. That can be done.
Yes it’s true that anybody can be a lobbyist. Just go down and register and you’re in. I venture to say that those who hang out down there every day are far more effective just as lawyers are much more effective in court than are pro se litigants.
[QUOTE=Bluey;3051189]And how many of you crying here, because the legislative process is what it is, were so for passing that poorly drafted, sorry slaugher ban bill?
What does around comes around.
You take someone’s rights away, closing a well regulated, useful industry and now cry because your own, very questionable practices, are being questioned and some are asking for supervision and accountability?
When we give others the right to take outhers rights away, we should not be surprised if they also want to interfere with what we consider our rights.
Like JSwan said, learn to play the game, if you want to stay in it.:yes:[/QUOTE]
Bluey,
I don’t know if this was pointed at anybody in particular but I never supported the anti-slaughter legislation. I said on the other website it was a mistake. I am glad you see the concept of incrementalism though.
George
If you’re trying to get something going at the national level - uh - you’re pissing in the wind. If that’s where that bogus info about “soring” came from, I’d advise you to steer clear of the people who gave you those “facts”.
You need to start at the state level. The legislation affecting laypeople is in that legislature; not the US House and Senate. The veterinarians you want to work with to develop good legislation are at the state level. The incidents that prompt legislation outlawing your occupations happen at the state level.
You’re crazy if you want to try and create some sort of national policy. Why would you even want to? It’s illogical, a waste of time and resources, and it’s completely unnecessary.
The state legislature should be your focus.
readleaf and others,
I will gladly be an advocate of you when you can show me that what you do significantly improves the quality of life in horses. I have seen some (via my own experiences in human Eastern medicine and philosophies) however, I am still skeptical about the case you present here pertaining to horses.
So, I advise, along with your legislative efforts, you undertake scientific efforts to get the current mainstream medical establishment to support your cause as well.
Reed
redleaflady, I totally agree…the same is true with medical “treatment” for humans. I find it interesting that what is still considered “alternative” in this country is the norm in countries much healthier than we are. Same for our 4-legged friends…
[QUOTE=lindat;3051798]
redleaflady, I totally agree…the same is true with medical “treatment” for humans. I find it interesting that what is still considered “alternative” in this country is the norm in countries much healthier than we are. Same for our 4-legged friends…[/QUOTE]
And your proof for that statement is…more testimonials?
will gladly be an advocate of you when you can show me that what you do significantly improves the quality of life in horses.
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18 year old cat with golf-ball sized abscess. Present for over 5 years. 3 surgeries to treat. Regular veterinary treatment. Nothing worked. One, 2 day stint with Silicea 30C Homeopathic remedy and in less than week abscess and wound were non-existant.
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10 year old QH with abscess in jaw. Surgeries X2. Veterinary treatment. Face swollen to twice the size. No improvement with surgeries or treatment. One, 2 day regime of Silicea 30C Homeopathic Remedy and swelling disappeared and abscess dried out. Less than one week and surgical site healed with fur beginning to grow … Calendula Ointment was used for tissue repair/healing.
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2 dogs, 3 horses. Tested pos. for Lyme Disease. Doxy regime reaped no results. 3 days with Ledum 1M Homeopathic remedy cured all. Retested with neg. results. Numerous other dogs and horses reported similar instances.
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12 yo. Greyhound with Corneal Ulcer. Veterinary treatment reaped no favorable results. Next step was to “scrape” the eye. Owner refused. Put on regime of Mercurius corrosiva and Silicea Homeopathic Remedies. Ulcer resolved in less than one week.
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3 year old Filly with stove-pipe swelling of rear leg - cause unknown. Unable to bear weight on the leg. Administration of Transfer Factor Stress Pak and Ledum 1M (one dose). Less than 24 hrs. later (following morning), fully weight bearing on the normal leg. Swelling gone. No further recurrances.
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25 yo TB exhibiting mild to moderate colic symptoms with diarrhea. Administration of Arsenicum 30C, one dose. TB back to “normal” within 1/2 hr. with no further recurrance.
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2 yo Filly with mild colic symptoms. Administration of Nux vomica 30C Hom. remedy. Resolved in 20 mins with no further recurrances.
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2 year old Filly with puncture and tear inside right rear buttock area. Puncture at least a finger lengths deep as vet examined. Treated by vet with cautions of swelling, drainage to be present for following 3 weeks. Antibiotics given for 3 days. In place of Triple antibiotic Ointment, Calendula Ointment was used after flushing with Calendula solution. Slight swelling 24 hrs. after initial injury. 2nd day no swelling and wound was closing from inside out … no further swelling or drainage occured and leg was healed in 7 days.
Would you like more? 1 “human” case … 24 year old female with Dx Lyme Disease with all 3 Lyme bacteria/biotics? 2 rounds of Doxy … increased symptoms; no relief. High positives again. One round of Ledum 1M for 3 days and all symptoms resolved. Low positive tests. Recurrance of disease about 6 months after initial bout and again, treated with Ledum 1M for 3 days. 1 1/2 years later with no recurrance and tests neg.
Another human case … Lyme tick embedded for 5 days prior to notice. Typical bull’s eye reaction. Flu-like symptoms with pos. Lyme test. No doxy or other regime given. 3 days of Ledum 1M. Symptoms alleviated, no recurrance and blood tests neg.
I could go on and on and on and on … would you like me to start in on herbs and acupressure or energy/massage cases where “conventional” vet. treatments failed to resolve or “improve the quality of life”? I have many “testimonials” … OH! but of course. They don’t mean anything cause they aren’t under “controlled studies”. However, all documented and observed by veterinarians and MDs. Sorry for the faux pas …
