Are these boards populated by massage therapists, herbalists, and dentists?
Yes, it reminds me of the people who went out, bought Dental equipment and labeled themselves Equine Dentists…:no:
As to the ‘burden’ being on the practitioners - how hard is it to understand that their profession has been outlawed? So, from what position do they undertake this burden?
Probably this battle is going to have to take place on a legislative level. That means organization, standardization, cooperation amongst widely variable disciplines, and some attempt at creating a level playing field. None of which, in the end, are really bad things to have going on. I’m sorry for those practitioners who have found themselves squeezed, but going back to the OP, other than a cry to WAKE UP, what is being DONE about this by these practitioners?
I don’t know about your state, but in mine, the state board has 2 members who are veterinarians and two lay members.
Exactly! Horse owners don’t need to wake up - it’s in our interest to be able to verify credentials, check for disciplinary action, and require the same level of professionalism and education as we do other professionals we hire. By education I don’t mean a formal one - each occupation is free to determine their own standards. Some might be formal, other apprenticeships, OJT - whatever.
It’s also in the best interest of these folks as well. By establishing themselves as a true profession, they can obtain the insurance so necessary these days, charge professional rates, and be treated as colleagues by veterinarians. It can be a good thing. But you have to have really good leadership. It’s crucial.
Check your own state–in mine, as I said above, there are currently 2 veterinary members and two non-veterinary members. They are volunteers, appointed by the governor, and interested parties are encouraged to participate.
There are currently 2 openings in MA for appointment to the board of registration for massage therapists.
Exactly! Horse owners don’t need to wake up - it’s in our interest to be able to verify credentials, check for disciplinary action, and require the same level of professionalism and education as we do other professionals we hire. By education I don’t mean a formal one - each occupation is free to determine their own standards. Some might be formal, other apprenticeships, OJT - whatever.
It’s also in the best interest of these folks as well. By establishing themselves as a true profession, they can obtain the insurance so necessary these days, charge professional rates, and be treated as colleagues by veterinarians. It can be a good thing. But you have to have really good leadership. It’s crucial
There are courses everyone takes to become a farrier, dentist, massage therapist, etc. in order to become Certified in that profession. They have attended schools to learn what is necessary to perform that job correctly. There are Associations that most of them belong to, and can purchase liability insurance. The IAAMB is one I am a member of, and listed on there as a School. Yes, we have Associations, but as far as being in politics, we’re not. We want to help the animals get better…plain and simple. Then we get this slapped in our faces! The vets reaching over and grabbing up what we have been doing for years and saying ‘only they’re allowed to do it now’. When they haven’t studied it, nor do they plan on studying it!
Those that don’t use it, fine…but those that do are having their choice taken away by money grubbing people.
http://medtech.syrene.net/forum/archive/index.php?t-2391.html
[QUOTE=JHUshoer20;3043456]
Exactly,
Alternative practicioners also hoof trimmers take a look at my signature line. Click on the page for Allied Equine Trades. We have room for everybody who works with horses in any capacity.
In my state we had an Amishman prosecuted for gelding a horse. This problem is very real.
George[/QUOTE]
And what exactly did he use for anesthesia? and how well was he prepared in case of hemorrhage?
I have seen a"dentist", with two rusty floats, and a chain shank, “floating” the teeth of a horse owned by the stupidest creature on earth.
I have seen a :horseshoer" shoe a horse with a huge crack up the center of his toe with a backwards shoe. Different ignorant owner.
You are perfectly welcome to “certify” these people. :o
[QUOTE=merrygoround;3043639]
I have seen a"dentist", with two rusty floats, and a chain shank, “floating” the teeth of a horse owned by the stupidest creature on earth.
I have seen a :horseshoer" shoe a horse with a huge crack up the center of his toe with a backwards shoe. Different ignorant owner.
You are perfectly welcome to “certify” these people. :o[/QUOTE]
Not quite sure what your getting at here. Obviously you’re proving the point that the general public is incapable of making intelligent hiring decisions.
Licensing, at least for horseshoers anyway would be in the public interest. It would protect people from themselves and best of all eliminate the least common denominator. This would ultimately be in the best interest of the horses. That is what everyone should be in favor of.
NOT giving control of all horse care to the vets. A power grab is all that is.
George
Oh please. Do you really believe this? If it were true, the vets who are mad about equine dentists would actually learn to do teeth worth a damn instead of bitching about someone else doing them and getting the money. We see that here regularly. Only one vet practice has actually put their money where their mouth is, so to speak, by requiring their vets to attend dentistry school.
This is just one example.
Consumers want whoever is the BEST at what they need done and that should be their perogative to decide… not someone elses. It is amusing to me that these issues always revolve around NOT ALLOWING someone to do something; rather than actually having some sort of system that sorts out who is qualifed and who isn’t. If it worked that way, a whole lot of vets would flunk right out of being allowed to do teeth :lol:
And what exactly did he use for anesthesia? and how well was he prepared in case of hemorrhage?
I have seen a"dentist", with two rusty floats, and a chain shank, “floating” the teeth of a horse owned by the stupidest creature on earth.
I have seen a :horseshoer" shoe a horse with a huge crack up the center of his toe with a backwards shoe. Different ignorant owner.
You are perfectly welcome to “certify” these people.
And I know of a vet around here that has no business being one…yet they LICENSED her anyway…you are perfectly welcome to hire her for your horse, since she IS licensed-I guess that means she’s good.:lol:
Were those people Certified? I’m guessing no…just learned on the side somehow.
NOT giving control of all horse care to the vets. A power grab is all that is.
:yes:
Total consumer ripoff if vets perform all…
Geez, all I saw from the OP is that some states appear to be pushing to have all healing modalities delivered by a veterinarian only. It had nothing to do with licensing, which 99.9% of people support. The practitioners in these modalities already are licensed–this step is already a done deal–and the OP was simply bringing to everyone’s attention that these practitioners’ livelihoods are at stake. And horses’ well-being is being jeopardized.
Deltawave, you used the term ‘conspiracy theory’ to insinuate that anyone who thinks that some forces beyond just the obvious could be behind such legislation. It’s not conspiratorial at all – it’s right out there, and people have to be just plain naive to have no clue as to why suddenly such legislation comes along. It’s simply in human nature to want to corner the market, and while you may not act upon that impulse, there are more than a few who do. They’re called lobbyists; maximizers of shareholder return; etc. etc. (Anyhooo, it doesn’t help the conversation to use inflammatory words for a perfectly valid viewpoint – often quite legitimate – even though you don’t agree with it…)
There is NO valid reason to have a vet deliver every modality, and if you were to ask most vets, they would shudder to know that they would have to be experienced in so many areas. What a nightmare.
And, talk about the customer being ripped off!! I would feel sincerely ripped off if I had to use a vet to do massage therapy when he practises that modality maybe once a month–and hardly that if it’s foaling season, or competition season, or surgery time, or… Wow, what a great way to rip off the consumer with the utterly mediocre abilities in the alternative treatments.
Hah! All it will do is have a lot of savvy horsepeople continuing to work with the practitioners they respect the most and feel are the most competent. They’ll figure out a way to compensate them. No way to regulate that. And, yes, charlatans will continue to find a home because people are gullible. Always will be.
In CA, apparently, vets have to prescribe if a animal owner wants to try an ‘alternative’ therapy. Get a script, call up your alt-prac of choice. They do not have to be vets in addition to the therapies they specialize in.
Well, guess what. No one else wanted to get involved in politics, either. It’s necessary if you want to protect your interests.
Every profession has to advocate for itself. Since you appear to be so passionate about this (understandably) then perhaps this is an opportunity to be a leader; an advocate. A voice of reason.
I’m sorry - I’m just not into complaining that something isn’t fair and asking other people to fight my battle.
If you feel your profession is being unfairly maligned, or is a pawn in some sort of political machinations in the legislature - then DO SOMETHING. Form your own lobby. Don’t know how? Find out. Learn. Join Toastmasters to learn how to speak in public. Meet with your state reps to discuss your associations position. Work with your state vet lobby to compromise.
My suggestion would be that when you advocate for yourself, you refrain from using terms such as “money grubbing”. Or that everyone is out to get you. No one likes to deal with nutcases. Even if you have excellent points (and you do), people just won’t listen.
Or - you can continue on your present path. But I doubt you will get anywhere.
[quote=J Swan;3043883]
I’m sorry - I’m just not into complaining that something isn’t fair and asking other people to fight my battle.[/QUOTE]
The consumer has a stake in this too.
If you feel your profession is being unfairly maligned, or is a pawn in some sort of political machinations in the legislature - then DO SOMETHING. Form your own lobby. Don’t know how? Find out. Learn. Join Toastmasters to learn how to speak in public. Meet with your state reps to discuss your associations position. Work with your state vet lobby to compromise.
and presumably take a leave of abscence from one’s profession while doing all this, and survive by ???
Unsaddle the drama llama, Lookout. You don’t need to take a leave of absence, wear a hair shirt, or sell your body on a streetcorner to make ends meet. Though you may have to if your current profession is outlawed.
Becoming active in your profession is very common. Doctors do it, so do paralegals, lawyers, cpa’s, chemists, just about everyone. People get together over coffee, around the kitchen table, meet with their state reps, and it’s all done when we can fit it into our schedules.
You can too. You can be a leader. Some people become leaders by default - no one else wants to step up to the plate. Others see an opportunity to be a strong voice for change and grab it.
Or, you can sit in a corner and pout that it’s too hard.
Up to you.
[/quote]
Not to the extent that would be required in order to reverse current laws already in place let alone get new ones passed. Those professions are not being threatened with being outlawed. What you are describing is a full time job. People that do this for a living are called lobbyists and are paid millions of dollars per year. The only reason vets were able to put the veterinary practice act into law was because of the funding provided by the pharmaceutical companies and the subsequent jobs that were promised.
[QUOTE=cyberbay;3043880]
There is NO valid reason to have a vet deliver every modality, and if you were to ask most vets, they would shudder to know that they would have to be experienced in so many areas. What a nightmare.
And, talk about the customer being ripped off!! I would feel sincerely ripped off if I had to use a vet to do massage therapy when he practises that modality maybe once a month–and hardly that if it’s foaling season, or competition season, or surgery time, or… Wow, what a great way to rip off the consumer with the utterly mediocre abilities in the alternative treatments.
In CA, apparently, vets have to prescribe if a animal owner wants to try an ‘alternative’ therapy. Get a script, call up your alt-prac of choice. They do not have to be vets in addition to the therapies they specialize in.[/QUOTE]
Hey Cyberbay,
This is what it’s all about. Of course no vet wants to shoe horses or do massages or whatever. But they have no problem incorporating those services into their practices and then hiring people to do it.
Think of the annual income of a dozen or more horseshoers going into a vets coffers and you can see where the temptation to push these type of laws comes from. Follow the money.
Licensing of all these respective trades would protect them from that. When one is granted a professional or occupational license nobody can stop that licensee from doing what they’re licensed to do. In PA and NY Massage people are no longer allowed on the racetrack. They must either be a vet or be WORKING for a vet. If these laws continue they WILL take control of the industry.
George
Oh for God’s sake Lookout.
Did I suggest you go out and become a full time lobbyist? You obviously aren’t qualified. It’s its own profession.
I’m talking about being a leader and a voice within your profession. A unifying voice; a politically savvy voice; and learning how to work with and within your legislature. Both as an individual and as part of a group. And that also means working with the opposition to identify common points, and compromise on others. Reasonably, professionally, and credibly. You start by learning how your legislature works, what the issues are, what the arguments are, and continue to learn, and listen, and develop working relationships with your own state reps.
It’s not going to be easy, and it’s not supposed to be. You have to learn. I did it - a poster on this BB (NRB) did it, and others do it every darn day.
But nothing is going to change for the better unless someone decides to take the ball and run with it. Perhaps that person is you.
One thing to think of also…NAIS will give vets even more power…the power of enforcement of the law in reporting people in violation with the laws. I am not anti vet but I am very much against taking the choice away from a horse owner on who they can use to provide non veterinary care to their horses.
I think we’ve correspondend about a new Va law before - the “dog database”. When the bill was being hashed out, one might have thought that the veterinary lobby was all for it. They really weren’t. It was a bureaucratic nightmare for vets. But - the veterinary lobby didn’t oppose the bill; they just asked for the language to be changed so that vets weren’t burdened with the recordkeeping tasks. Voila. The lobby protected the interest of veterinarians; though by doing so vets really couldn’t bring in more money by charging an administrative or office fee for the recordkeeping. It’s not always about money.
The reason I mention it is because the lobby didn’t voice any concerns about privacy of veterinary records, nor did it appear concerned with any possible increase in rabies. (rabies has risen since the law passed but it may be coincidental). In that respect, the veterinary lobby failed the public.
On the other hand - they don’t represent the public now, do they.
We all have to pay attention. I know a lot of this stuff seems like David and Goliath - but at the state level, there really is an opportunity for us to advocate for ourselves. Whether we’re a farrier, massage therapist - it doesn’t matter. While I personally loathe politics, I make it a point to know exactly who is doing what to whom in our legislature. (on the issues that are important to me)
NRB did a great job advocating for a bill that she put together herself, got a sponsor - and was heard. She gets a kewpie doll for that one!
Lookout seems like an intelligent person, as does MassageLady. There is no reason to doubt that either of them could suddenly discover that they are capable of being a leader, forming a group, developing a consensus and then making things happen.
You just have to decide to do it.
