Horse poisoned by nightshade in pasture- whose responsibility?

[Baldwin]

I’m on day 5 of dealing with my horse’s Nightshade poisoning. He appears that he will live from the poisoning itself, however, he is suffering laminitis and of course we don’t know yet how/if he will recover from that.

My horse was found to be nearly paralyzed on Monday, and Tuesday diagnosed with Nightshade poisoning. Walking his pasture and other pastures on the farm revealed A TON of the stuff. The owner says he’s never had a problem with it before. There is no grass left in his pasture, only weeds, and he’s only given hay 2x/day.

I don’t think my horse would’ve eaten it had he had anything else to eat (speculation, of course). I am a firm believer in grass hay 24/7 but good luck with that at a boarding facility. However, I requested that in lieu of sweet feed, my horses receive extra hay and I provide their grain. The barn owner and his longtime girlfriend broke up late the week prior and I think chores got “off track” so to speak, my horse was without hay too long, got bored, and decided to try a few things he’d never had before.

I am approximately $1000 into vet bills thus far, and I have a horse who was sound and healthy last week who now is not looking like he will ever be ridden again. Not only that, but I cannot afford to board a pasture ornament, nor can I afford to drive multiple times per day to care for him.

I have not said much to the barn owner except that neither of my horses are going back into that pasture until all of it’s gone.

If this was your horse, what would you do? Trying to take emotion out of it (it’s HORRIBLE to see my horse like this), am I wrong or unreasonable to be extremely angry that something that could kill him was all over his pasture? I, personally, cannot imagine boarding something for money without making 110% sure that they could not be harmed in their enclosures, whether it be a dog or horse or whatever. How much liability do barn owners bear for deadly forage in their pasture? This is a small property- maybe 6 acres total, with 6-7 separate pastures. The lot he’s in is not big- it’s not like a huge area near woods that the Nightshade could be overlooked easily. This would NEVER have happened if anyone had walked the pasture, as I did when they were at home with me.

Opinions are appreciated. Thanks.

[Aileybay]

What a horrible, horrible situation :[ Jingles for your horse’s full recovery. I guess it depends what your boarding contract explicitly says (aka what they’re liable for), and if you do or don’t want to pursue legal action with the facility. I’m personally not someone who jumps at the chance to sue another individual so that wouldn’t be my first instinct with this situation. Are there other suitable barns in the area that you would feel comfortable moving your horses to? I could understand if maybe one shift of chores had gone overlooked but if he had been without hay long enough to nibble on poisonous weeds, then that’s unacceptable.

[Marshfield]

I would consider the farm owner/farm manager 100% liable. You were paying for safe pasture for the horse and the farm owner clearly fell down on the job in terms of appropriate pasture maintenance. Just as if a dog being boarded became ill from ingesting mushrooms on the property, we’d expect the boarding kennel to pick up the tab for care–the same applies here. This doesn’t fall under the horses being horses clause (pasture squabbles/getting cast) this is due to neglect in providing a safe environment

[ReSomething]

I have nightshade and ragweed and quite a few other weeds in one of my paddocks - I can’t really imagine a horse eating nightshade intentionally because it has those very irritating small thorns all up and down the stems and on the backs of the leaves. I yank them up but not as often as I should, because of those fine, irritating thorns.

If either one of my guys were to become poisoned I’d have to look at the paddock, and look at the hay to make sure it’s not contaminated with the stuff, but it would of course be on my shoulders. As a boarder, I think we all hold our facilities to a higher standard than we might let go at home, I know I wouldn’t feel right boarding a horse without going out and digging up or mowing down the weeds. Did you walk the pastures when you first moved your guy there? Was the nightshade growing there at that time?

Unfortunately I can’t say that legal action will do much beyond earn money for a lawyer and perhaps put this boarding facility out of business. Your guy won’t miraculously get better, you may be made whole of the vet bills but it can’t turn back time.
I do think that the facility owner should pay for the vet bills though, if there is a poisonous plant in the pasture it’s a given that eventually a horse that is a browsing type might sample one - going back to my statement about mowing them down or removing them - just because my two leave them alone doesn’t mean that another one won’t eat it and besides it’s not good pasture management, after enough time the paddock will be nothing but weeds that reseed and spread, better to be honest about it and turn it into a dry lot.

[Baldwin]

I did not notice the Nightshade when I moved them there, 2 months ago. However, there was still some grass, albeit sparse, back then and the owner had mowed when my guys got there. Nothing has been mowed since they’ve been there. So, now that there is nothing else to eat except tallish weeds…

My main issue is this: my horses were moved there because they were starving at their previous barn. I specifically requested extra hay instead of grain. A horse not used to getting enough to eat will eat things a healthy, fat horse won’t, obviously, hence my extreme anger that not only did he not have the EXTRA hay he was supposed to have (because I supply my own grain even though the BO provides grain), but he was low enough on forage to eat Nightshade. (BTW, there are many many forms of Nightshade, several that will make a horse very sick, and they don’t all have sharp parts. This stuff pulls out easily and isn’t sharp- it’s Eastern or “Deadly” Nightshade.") Vet said it’s the last thing they eat so it gets the tallest and also it’s thin and wraps up with other weeds they do like to eat. In the fall, it gets sweeter as it wilts.

I did not say I was going to sue anyone. I merely asked about responsibility and how others might proceed. I have not said anything to the owner. I’m being polite and civil, as I need him to at least check on him a time or two per day when I can’t get out there. He said he “feels terrible” and offered to take half off board next month…gee, that’s like 1/10 of my bills incurred the first week, lol. I didn’t say anything.

I am desperately looking for somewhere else to put them and it’s not easy where I live. I am a single mother of a preschool-aged child, so I can’t be driving an hour+ each way to doctor a horse 4x daily like I have been this week. That’s not a realistic longterm plan. I have been there every day 4+ times since Monday, often in the middle of the night. I am sooo angry, not only because he’s suffering like this for such an idiotic reason, but because I might be forced to do something I really don’t want to do because I cannot manage the logistics of caring for him if I can’t find somewhere to put him PRONTO. I have another horse there, his best friend. I need to move 2, not one, and some places only have an opening for one. They are like siamese twins, so that won’t work. The last thing he needs right now is the stress of being separated from his best friend. I have serious budget constraints, he’s never been stall kept, and has some seasonal allergies, which is another reason he’s not stalled. ARGH! So frustrating. I am looking for places to rent and move quickly and just bring them home. Desperate to get them out of there.

I breed working dogs and do some occasional training/boarding. I am OCD about safety. I just can’t wrap my head around something that could kill them being INSIDE their enclosure! I know the pasture was mowed when they moved in, but I’m not sure it would’ve occurred to me to check for poisonous plants in a horse pasture that belonged to a boarding barn, considering there were horses there the day before mine arrived. I mean, isn’t that Common Sense 101??!

Thanks for listening…makes me sick what’s happened to him. He’s not young but he was strong and healthy and never had a lame day in his life and now he struggles to stand and it’s all because of carelessness and laziness (my opinion).

[arapaloosa_lady]

Your poor horse

I don’t know who is legally responsible, but that doesn’t matter so much unless you’re planning to sue.

When boarding a horse, I’d expect the BO to provide my horse with a safe pasture. And that’s incredibly frustrating that he knew the nightshade was there but didn’t do anything.

[clanter]

[QUOTE=Baldwin;7758915]
. He’s not young but he was strong and healthy and never had a lame day in his life and now he struggles to stand and it’s all because of carelessness and laziness (my opinion).[/QUOTE]

have you ruled out West Nile as the symptoms you have posted are same as the one horse we had to contract West Nile

[Baldwin]

Responsibility and legal responsibility are not always the same thing. I was asking opinions to get ideas of what to say and when and whether I was justified in being angry about my poor horse and my quickly piling bills…again, I did not say I was going to sue anyone, but depending on the outcome of the situation and what is done to remedy the Nightshade problem, it’s not entirely out of the question as my bills keep racking up and the attitude of “it hasn’t been a problem before” prevails. If for no other reason, perhaps some $$$ lost would express the seriousness, as right now, I have no doubt that others wouldn’t even be warned if they brought their horses there. Why should another horse suffer as mine is? Again, I have said nothing yet and am waiting to see how it’s handled.

Clanter, he was diagnosed with Nightshade poisoning. There is no question as to what caused it. We saw bitten-off Nightshade in his pasture and there are only 2 horses in there, both mine. My other boy, who never forages in weeds, is fine. West Nile doesn’t cause the other symptoms he has. I didn’t list his symptoms. It’s no longer a mystery; now, more of a “what the heck do we do now?”

Thanks for the replies.

[S1969]

I don’t know…that’s a tough situation. I have nightshade in my own pasture (well, it is on the other side of the fenceline, but if you know anything about nightshade you know it’s tenacious, so it does grow through the fence and is certainly available if horses wanted to eat it.) And personally - I am not aware of nightshade plants having thorns? I pull them out with my bare hands all the time and have never noticed. Although I do know there are several species, so perhaps a different species of nightshade.

I’ve never seen my horses show any interest whatsoever, so I have never been concerned. I also feed hay all day in a drylot, and have already started putting hay in the pasture overnight because I know there isn’t much grass left.

I agree that a barn owner should provide a “safe” pasture, but eradicating every possibly noxious weed seems to be a pretty high standard. I’d be more annoyed about the fact that the horses aren’t getting enough hay - because that’s the more likely reason that the horse is eating weeds - not the existence of the weeds themselves. It’s early fall - many pastures are done for the year (in fact, I’m moving mine off this weekend so they don’t eat the roots).

So…who is responsible for a horse not being fed properly – obviously the Barn Owner, but if the outcome was colic, would we still consider that the BO’s responsibility? Or the horse owners?

I feel for the OP, but if you knew that the horse wasn’t getting enough hay…I think that’s the real issue. Nightshade, buttercups, ragweed – they are all extremely invasive, and whether mowed or long, they are usually still available for horses to eat unless you are paying big bucks for superior pasture maintenance.

If I were the BO, I would probably offer to at least split the expense…but then again, if I were the BO, they would have always had enough hay that they wouldn’t have needed to eat weeds…so you may be fighting a losing battle.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=Baldwin;7758915]
I did not notice the Nightshade when I moved them there, 2 months ago. However, there was still some grass, albeit sparse, back then and the owner had mowed when my guys got there. Nothing has been mowed since they’ve been there. So, now that there is nothing else to eat except tallish weeds…

My main issue is this: my horses were moved there because they were starving at their previous barn. I specifically requested extra hay instead of grain. A horse not used to getting enough to eat will eat things a healthy, fat horse won’t, obviously, hence my extreme anger that not only did he not have the EXTRA hay he was supposed to have (because I supply my own grain even though the BO provides grain), but he was low enough on forage to eat Nightshade. (BTW, there are many many forms of Nightshade, several that will make a horse very sick, and they don’t all have sharp parts. This stuff pulls out easily and isn’t sharp- it’s Eastern or “Deadly” Nightshade.") Vet said it’s the last thing they eat so it gets the tallest and also it’s thin and wraps up with other weeds they do like to eat. In the fall, it gets sweeter as it wilts.

I did not say I was going to sue anyone. I merely asked about responsibility and how others might proceed. I have not said anything to the owner. I’m being polite and civil, as I need him to at least check on him a time or two per day when I can’t get out there. He said he “feels terrible” and offered to take half off board next month…gee, that’s like 1/10 of my bills incurred the first week, lol. I didn’t say anything.

I am desperately looking for somewhere else to put them and it’s not easy where I live. I am a single mother of a preschool-aged child, so I can’t be driving an hour+ each way to doctor a horse 4x daily like I have been this week. That’s not a realistic longterm plan. I have been there every day 4+ times since Monday, often in the middle of the night. I am sooo angry, not only because he’s suffering like this for such an idiotic reason, but because I might be forced to do something I really don’t want to do because I cannot manage the logistics of caring for him if I can’t find somewhere to put him PRONTO. I have another horse there, his best friend. I need to move 2, not one, and some places only have an opening for one. They are like siamese twins, so that won’t work. The last thing he needs right now is the stress of being separated from his best friend. I have serious budget constraints, he’s never been stall kept, and has some seasonal allergies, which is another reason he’s not stalled. ARGH! So frustrating. I am looking for places to rent and move quickly and just bring them home. Desperate to get them out of there.

I breed working dogs and do some occasional training/boarding. I am OCD about safety. I just can’t wrap my head around something that could kill them being INSIDE their enclosure! I know the pasture was mowed when they moved in, but I’m not sure it would’ve occurred to me to check for poisonous plants in a horse pasture that belonged to a boarding barn, considering there were horses there the day before mine arrived. I mean, isn’t that Common Sense 101??!

Thanks for listening…makes me sick what’s happened to him. He’s not young but he was strong and healthy and never had a lame day in his life and now he struggles to stand and it’s all because of carelessness and laziness (my opinion).[/QUOTE]

I don’t blame you for being upset.

If the barn owner is not feeding plenty of hay to a starving horse, who really knows if it is the nightshade which caused the colic? That’s not a rhetorical question actually; did the vet do some kind of blood test which tested for arsenic in your horse’s system or was it an assumption based on the presence of nightshade plants along with severe colic? If the barn owner is throwing grain at a starved horse and not giving extra hay which you requested, I wonder if he/she is also shorting the fresh water? That could also be the cause of colic.

My opinion about moral blame is that it depends. If the pasture is safe and the barn owner inspects the pasture periodically and cleans up noxious weeds, then I would not see the barn owner as responsible if a lone nightshade plant survived.

On the other hand, if the pasture is a weedy mess not safe or suitable for horses then they would be at fault. If you moved your horse into such a pasture with your eyes wide open, you might share a little blame as well. But if the barn owner is not feeding hay properly and as agreed upon, the barn owner is at fault. That’s my opinion.

[buck22]

I really cannot weigh in on the responsibility issue, though I would be beyond livid, and I am so so sorry for what you and your horse are going through.

I self care board, and I have nightshade growing in my paddocks that I hand pull. I always thought horses shied away from noxious weeds if otherwise satisfied.

But my very well-cared for, scrumptious hay available 24/7 plus good grazing Morgan decided that nightshade tastes delicious for a short period in its growth cycle. I personally witnessed him graze his way across a lush patch, push a honeysuckle bush out of the way and then snarf down a large nightshade plant that was hiding in the honeysuckle and escaped my attention - thorns, berries/tomatoes and all! This horse, who is a BCS of 6, had just finished his breakfast and was nibbling his way back to one of his many piles of hay available. The furthest thing from “hungry”.

After reaching down his mouth and pulling out everything I could, I was on the phone with the vet immediately. She gave me protocol, he had a mild reaction that evening and then recovered without incident. But now I am extra vigilant about control.

Nightshade grows rampant all over the farm where I board. Its in the paddocks with the other horses. Some paddocks overgrown with the stuff. The BO - who is a responsible person - simply didn’t know what it was until I told her my tale and pointed it out. They now take measures to control it, but in my case, I was the only person on the farm that knew what the strange plant was.

[PNWjumper]

My disclaimer is that I have no comment about legal responsibility in any way, shape, or form.

With that out of the way, I don’t blame you for being upset, but I feel like this is one of those situations where it falls on everyone’s shoulders. Yes, the barn owner should have noticed the poisonous plants and removed them or removed the horses from the pastures. But you also could/should have noticed them and done something about it, too. And by “you should have done something about it,” I mean you should have removed your horses from the pasture, or pestered the BO to address the issue, not that you should have done it yourself (though I’ve done many things that not-particularly-detailed-oriented-BOs-haven’t-been-on-top-of over the years in the name of keeping my horses to the standard I expect).

In your shoes I would be kicking myself and then perhaps be angry with the BO as well. But I would be the first one in line to shoulder the blame. I am my horses’ biggest advocate, and I’m the one with the responsibility to ensure that their care is up to the standard I expect. In pursuit of that I bought a farm and do my own care (not saying you should or can do the same). I am much happier blaming myself 100% than getting all angst-y about who should bear the blame on something that’s a bizarre accident.

Also weighing on my decision, though, is the actual standard of care at the facility. If I were paying $1200 per month per horse I would have much higher expectations than if I were paying $200 per month per horse for pasture board. I’m not asking, nor do I need to know, what you’re paying, but that would also play into my thinking. I would expect to be much more involved in the decision making and care of my horses at $200 per month than I would at the other end of the spectrum.

[PeteyPie]

[QUOTE=PNWjumper;7759187]

Also weighing on my decision, though, is the actual standard of care at the facility. If I were paying $1200 per month per horse I would have much higher expectations than if I were paying $200 per month per horse for pasture board. I’m not asking, nor do I need to know, what you’re paying, but that would also play into my thinking. I would expect to be much more involved in the decision making and care of my horses at $200 per month than I would at the other end of the spectrum.[/QUOTE]

That’s a really good point.

[Marla_100]

I really understand your angst as I’ve been there with negligent BO’s.

At many boarding barns it’s pretty common to have to buy extra hay when the BO won’t feed enough. Not right but it happens a lot. When YOU notice the problem and the BO won’t budge then it’s up to you to fix that problem -
and/or move your horses.

Regarding the laminitis/founder, most horses DO recover and go back to being sound. It’s a long drawn out process where their hooves have to totally grow out into a healthy hoof. But generally they do heal. It’s very important to have a good, experienced w/ founder farrier on board who can do frequent trims to get the coffin bone back where it should be.

It can be a very difficult time when you’re boarding and taking care of a foundered horse especially when you have other responsibilities. Been there also.
You might want to invest in some hoof boots like Soft Rides as they do help the horse start moving around better.

You have my sympathies, but hang in there as “This Too Shall Pass”.
Good Luck and just keep you wits about you and think POSITIVELY.

[Bluey]

I would not know, our pastures are measured in hundreds of acres, not conductive to spraying or mowing and full of native short grasses and all kinds of weedy plants, some poisonous.
Cattle and horses know what to eat and what not to eat.
If they happened to eat it all into the ground, there may be the rare horse or cattle that may be starving and if nothing else is there, will nibble on something that will sicken or kill it.
Or for some strange to us reason, take a bite of something poisonous and get to like it, like a few do with loco weed.

In a way, to leave animals where they are starving and start eating poisonous weeds is no better than feeding hay with those in them and so little the horses end up so hungry they are eating those weeds in the hay also.

There is not much that can be done then, but to take those animals that will eat those poisonous plants out of those pastures, or quit feeding that hay and hope they recover.

Now, in horses kept in very small pastures, where someone plants the grasses and manages those with mowing, spraying, fertilizing and watering, that is a whole different situation, maybe one where you can expect the paddocks to be weed free.

Which were you in?

[microbovine]

I am so sorry. Prayers for a full recovery. Our donkey ate a tiny piece once. I found the plant in his paddock and recognized it. If I hadn’t been there, I would not have known it happened. He sweated, frothed and staggered for awhile before recovering fully. Our vet got there as he was coming out of it.

[saultgirl]

Thanks to this thread, I now know what nightshade looks like!

I have some growing in the manure pile. A month or so ago, I noticed the plant and wondered what it was, as I had never seen it before. I didn’t get around to looking it up until this thread came up today.

I’ve pulled it out for now, and turned it into the manure pile; only a few of the berries seemed mature so I don’t think it will spread. I don’t think it grows around here very much anyways.

While you probably could legally hold the barn owner responsible for keeping horses in an enclosure with a toxic plant, I wouldn’t personally hold them responsible. Plants travel and grow randomly; I’m not sure what it would cost to board somewhere where they walked the pastures regularly to identify each type of plant. Last year I had a corn stalk grow out of nowhere near a fenceline. This year I notice a squash/pumpkin plant creeping along the side of a hill.

I put this into the category of “shit happens”.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=PeteyPie;7759175]
did the vet do some kind of blood test which tested for arsenic in your horse’s system or was it an assumption based on the presence of nightshade plants along with severe colic? [/QUOTE]

Arsenic is not the toxic principle in nightshade. Atropine, solanine, and scopalomine are some of the toxic constituents.

[Katy_Watts]

@Bluey;7759249

Cattle and horses know what to eat and what not to eat.

As you noted, this is only applicable to animals raised by their dams on their home range. When animals are moved, they have to learn again what to eat and what not to eat. When new plants move into an area, they must learn again. There is no instinctual knowledge of what is safe to eat, although I have run into a lot of people who believe that. Plants that do not always cause immediate sickness create problems for learned aversion. Toxin levels fluctuate greatly depending on environmental conditions, or pests or disease that is attacking the plant.

A full text article on the subject:
http://www.ckwri.tamuk.edu/fileadmin/user_upload/PHOTOS/Deer-Research_Program/Student_papers/2013-Dietary_Development.pdf

[Ghazzu]

Another factor in consumption of toxic plants is that, in many of them, the toxic principle also makes them unpalatable.

I have, on numerous occasions, seen horses and cattle confined in a small enough area that everything non-toxic has been eaten down to the dirt, with the exception of bumper crops of plants such as Jimson weed or nightshade.

In these cases, the animals are being provided enough fodder to satisfy their appetites.