Horse Purchasing: Trainer and I disagree! What do I do?

[fivestrideline]

Not sure if you’ve taken some time to dig around on here OP, but check out this thread

Real talk: What's everyone paying these days?

So, it seems like many barns these days are claiming that inflation is hitting them hard and telling customers that they have to increase prices. I mean, I get it. It’s not just happening with horses and I’m well aware with fuel and hay prices going up this year, we know it’s been harder than usual. However, it’s a constant conversation lately about how things are getting super expensive and lots of people that I consider on the rather wealthy side are even hinting that they’re worried and pot…

It’s lengthy, but it may give you an idea of what you’re asking when you say you want a Big Eq horse. Keeping in mind that $60k won’t buy you a finals horse, but it might get you something to aim at that ring locally and certainly could get you a jumper if you have the right trainer and a good foundation (especially if you’ll look at OTTBs and other off breeds).

I throw this out there because I think you’ve got great goals but haven’t had a good chat with the right pros to see what is realistic for your budget and time. If your parents aren’t ready to let you drop basically EVERYTHING ELSE in favor of pursuing the horse thing, you may actually be better off leasing an Appendix packer type at the local barn and pursuing the (previously called) C circuit locally.

ETA: you really need to sit down with your parents and trainer (maybe a chat with both trainers, separately) and talk goals/money/buying vs leasing.

[Fiesta01]

@Tha_Ridge

Perhaps trainer is looking for a “cow pony” because a similar warmblood-type in OP’s budget might indeed be fragile by way of a bad vetting or a whole or quirk.

Or maybe, the parents put a bug in the trainer’s ear, without telling OP, about the price they’re willing to pay.

Generally speaking, I would think cow ponies as a whole would be less expensive than warmbloods as a whole. (Not saying there aren’t expensive cow ponies).

[enjoytheride]

While WBs are more likely to hit the upper ranges of prices, competition in the “cow pony” circuit can be stiff and 60k wouldn’t be out of the question. However, that kind of “cow pony” has never seen an english saddle before and it wouldn’t make sense to look for a jumper in that world.

That said, it seems the parents have set a 60k limit and there is no earthly reason a trainer would be looking at a cow pony for a junior with the financial means to show in the 3’ 6" jumpers. That is a very reasonable budget and I assume the parents are also aware of related expenses.

[LiveTheDream]

I’ll chime in as I was in your shoes many, many years ago, albeit I was too young to drive.

My non-horsey mother spoke to the then trainer-helping-us-find-a-horse. She laid it out clearly for my mother in terms of horses, trainers, facilities, and finances. My mom then distilled that information and had a frank conversation with me: (a) buy a horse, keep it at a facility over an hour away, and ride only on weekends, or (b), buy a horse, keep it locally, and ride daily. She nixed (my) option ©, to do both for obvious reasons. She also made it clear that I may need to re-evaluate my goals.

Many posters have provided helpful advice. My suggestion is simple: whatever you end up doing, try to keep the “woulda, coulda, shoulda” to a minimum. I am wishing you happiness on your journey, wherever that takes you.

Note: after all these years, and many horses later, my mother’s favorite breed is still the quarter horse.

[Sabino]

Are you parents involved in this at all? I would talk to them - tell them what your goals are and get them involved with the discussion with the trainer. They should tell the trainer what you are looking for, how much you can spend and where you should be looking for said horse.

Maybe the trainer would be more willing to do what you (and your parents) want instead of what she wants. After all, you (and your parents) are the ones paying for the horse.

[ShenanAnna]

I think that fivestrideline hit the nail on the head with “what is realistic for your budget and time.”

[alpine1]

This is not a complex situation, especially for someone who has loads of money and lives in a major coastal US city. You say you’ve been riding hunter/jumpers since age 6 and you currently train at two different barns–you should be pretty established in your local “horseriding” (?) community. Forget the trainer who wants you to buy a little western horse and work with the trainer at the show barn. No trainer is going to turn down the opportunity to sell you a $60,000 show horse (or find one for you). The end.

[Equibrit]

Forget it until you earn enough to bankroll your own mistakes.

[alpine1]

If this is a real situation, the parents have been in the horse world for ten years too. They’ve been hauling this kid to and from barns, shows, paying for lessons and leases, etc. Even if they were not particularly horsey to begin with, they would be now, because they’ve been dealing with all this stuff (including expenses) for a long time. Any parent with a kid who rides/trains/shows for ten years is steeped in the world because they have no choice. They would have strong opinions about this situation and not just be silent partners.

[Bluey]

@alpine1

This is not a complex situation, especially for someone who has loads of money and lives in a major coastal US city. You say you’ve been riding hunter/jumpers since age 6 and you currently train at two different barns–you should be pretty established in your local “horseriding” (?) community. Forget the trainer who wants you to buy a little western horse and work with the trainer at the show barn. No trainer is going to turn down the opportunity to sell you a $60,000 show horse (or find one for you). The end.

That bolded is what show barn trainers do for a living, use that trainer if that is what you want.

[MsM]

First, OP, sit down with your parents and discuss what you want and what is practical. Be honest about your time commitments and that you would intend to drop some activities if you go all in on riding. Be sure they are comfortable with the ongoing expenses.

If you are dedicated to going all in as a Junior rider, research what that involves. If local trainer is not already taking students to shows at this level, you would have to move to the show barn. Find out the costs for training and showing. What are the expectations for showing - away shows involving hotels? Does this trainer feel you are ready for this step?

If the barn family is important to you and you want to stay there, maybe you have to scale back your ambitions. Maybe this would be a better life/horse balance. Many dream of riding at top levels, but even if your parents can swing it financially, it may not be the best path. A horse that is a “step up” but not as big a step that can take you to local shows at 3’ or a little more to own or lease may get you a better experience.

Bringing a horse to college is difficult and can be expensive with a long commute depending on your college. And the cost of course! And are your parents on board with paying for all that and allowing you to continue showing while in college?

A lot to find out and discuss with all parties involved.

[findeight]

Additional thoughts for OP to digest…no judgement included.

“Cow pony” trainer may not have any trustworthy contacts with anybody offering well started, 60k WBs. Its not what she is good at or even wants to do. She also may not be able to leave her business to travel outside of a days drive to test ride and evaluate a prospect for you. She sounds like a smart gal. May not be right for your dream goals but she runs a good local barn from what you share. And she might be considering what your parents have actually told her.

That 60k WB will likely cost you an additional 12k in commissions, 1500-2500 for a PPE. If it does come from out of the local area, there will be additional travel charges for trainer and you to travel, evaluate and test ride, plane ride, rent car, hotel and the cost to ship the horse to whatever barn you chose ($1a mile or more).

Ask the show barn trainer exactly how much board and (usually required lessons/training) will be. How much they charge for trailering your horse to the A show, how much they charge for day care ($50-$125 a day) and how many days the horse would have to be there (usually between 5-7. Per week). Some run 2-3 weeks. Oh….you’ll need a new saddle and show outfits. Lets not forget coaching at shows-lessons and warming you up for your round then critiquing after. This is all on top of entry and stall fees at the show.

Most barns have a rate sheet. Sometimes on their social media pages or just ask them for one.

Get the actual facts on actual costs, thats the Adult thing to do.

Just put this out there, that 60k would get you a dam good Stock type horse that can jump around very well with lessons and shows and maybe new show clothes too

One other thing…have you sat down with parents and had a discussion about what they can afford to pay? Total costs monthly? Will they back you on a car or have to keeping driving you? Ask them to tell you the TRUTH. Its a tough conversation but at 16, you should be willing to hear it.

The best thing my folks ever did for me was tell me the truth about what we could afford. It sucked but helped me deal with the reality and aim for attainable goals.

JMO but never, ever ran into any 6-9 year olds who really knew what it actually cost. Some did not even know “their” Pony was leased, not owned.

[NoSuchPerson]

OK, I’ve just read through this whole thread. Maybe because I read it all at once, the oddities of the posts made by the OP really stood out. Pretty much every post contains something that is “off.” Wrong jargon, atypical phrasing, internal contradictions, word choice…

It seems pretty obvious to me that the OP is not being honest. Younger than stated? Much less experienced with horses than claimed? Person whose primary language is other than English getting some English practice? Troll just trying to set a new record of how long she can keep this thing going?

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Sooo a few things:

1. The amount of cow ponies going around in the 3’ are minimal. There are some really transitional horses out there that can, but they are the exception rather than the rule. It’s not that they can’t do the height, it’s more times than not that they can’t do the step.
   So either trainer isn’t prepared to take you above the schooling hunter 2’6-2’9 heights and expressly wants to keep you in that safety zone, or they are slightly delusional.
2. Do your parents understand the long-term costs of buying and keeping a horse? When they say 50-60K, are they aware that this comes with a 15-20k minimum upkeep per year between shoes, board, recurring vet bills, and supplies? If not, that needs to be expressly explained to them that if you intend to show, 25-30K per year min should be their expected out of pocket.
3. When you say you’re doing 3’3 at home… are you coursing 3’3 or doing an occasional oxer or fence at that height? Sounds like maybe the better option is to find something that can do the 3’-3’3 (also potentially easier for that budget to find one) and go from there. Big difference between 2’9 and 3’6 courses and probably better to get that under your belt first.
4. You are 16. Has the discussion happened yet about college and plans? Are parents expecting you to sell the horse or lease it when you go to school or are they footing bill for tuition and horse? I’d be asking these questions to get a better understanding and to set some expectations for both sides. Ideally, if you’re planning on only having horse for 1.5-2 years before you leave for school… maybe find something that’s going around at 3’ with some potential scope to go higher with a pro that can eventually be ready for you to move up on.

I don’t ask these questions to be snarky. I’ve just had a few kids that believed they were capable of much more bc they’ve done a few higher jumps and felt like that’s where they belonged. From a safety aspect for you and your animal, these are heights that need to be respected and brought along naturally, not abruptly because you think you’re ready. My friend’s barn had a girl that was about 16 and when she moved in she had a cow pony that she claimed she jumped 3’ on all the time and was a “catch rider”. A quick Facebook and USEF search showed a much different story that the real truth was a beginner eq/hunter height and that maybe she did an occasional 2’6 in lessons on another school horse. Poor pony was a “hony” and didn’t have the step or lead change to be competitive in much else than the low jumpers. She threw a massive fit that she was being held back and they left the barn in a huff, but realistically, she was truly a 2’3-2’6 rider at best that thought she belonged in a much more competitive group, but didn’t have the mount or the skills quite yet to be there.

[OntheFnce]

Additional costs to include: farrier, insurance, medical/body work, training, saddle fitting, show/training fees, shipping. You mentioned going overseas to purchase, have you factored in importing fees? $50-$60k is not exactly a large budget for Big Eq/jumper horse (3’6-3’9 horse).

[OverandOnward]

IMO, with more posts, OP’s online communications style lines up reasonably with Generation Alpha, or whatever it will be called in the future. People currently under 20 years old. Very different even from millennials.

On the other hand, the replies line up with communication styles more consistent with millennial to boomer. So that is some life experience being shared with OP

Interesting that these generational style differences are so apparent these days, when so much communication is no longer monitored and standardized by older mentor adults. As it was before texting & social media were widely prevalent.

@celine.eq2023

Because I’ve been at that barn for a long time and I have a community there and don’t want to leave. I have many friends and am comfortable with my trainer there. I dont know how to leave without ruining my connections with the people there.

One of the hardest parts of becoming an adult is realizing that not every person in your world fits your goals. You can still be friends, but you do have to move in your own direction. If not, you’ll make serious compromises in that direction to keep your social world as it is now.

So you may give up or compromise on at least part of your dream to stay at the current barn. But then others will leave that barn to pursue their own life path, and there will be changes there anyway. Definitely within a year. Maybe even within months, even if they aren’t discussing it now.

You won’t be together in the same space as much, but you can certainly still communicate and be friends. Sharing your separate journeys will be enriching.

So take care of your goals first. It will be ok!

You’ve already talked about the commute and time challenges of trying to do both at the same time. Things like that will eat away at the time you need to spend on your horse to move up successfully.

Life lesson: If you choose to prioritize your goals, it means re-prioritizing the people who are not on the same path. This will be true for all of your life. Not discarding them, at all. But just moving forward in your own direction, and letting them go onward separately in theirs. Stay in touch and share your life journeys and all will be better in the end.

[Maythehorsebewithme]

@NoSuchPerson

OK, I’ve just read through this whole thread. Maybe because I read it all at once, the oddities of the posts made by the OP really stood out. Pretty much every post contains something that is “off.” Wrong jargon, atypical phrasing, internal contradictions, word choice…

It seems pretty obvious to me that the OP is not being honest. Younger than stated? Much less experienced with horses than claimed? Person whose primary language is other than English getting some English practice? Troll just trying to set a new record of how long she can keep this thing going?

It almost sounds like it was written by ChatGPT.

[OverandOnward]

OP, over the last several years it seems that often in these threads it is the younger person who needs to take control of the communications process, of organizing and bringing the right people together, to solve problems and create new directions.

What you’ve described so far can be confusing because it reads like a jigsaw puzzle with the pieces all spread out and disorganized. One can’t even start solving the puzzle until the pieces are grouped and sorted, so that then they can be aligned with where each should go in the completed puzzle. Otherwise it is just grabbing one random piece after another, and not finding where each should go. Massively frustrating, and much time wasted with no true progress toward a complete picture. Sounds like that is what is happening?

Like others in this thread, before the ‘horse’ question is addressed, you first need to get information and organize the pieces – which are the adults who have roles in your horse journey. Parents, trainer(s), barn manager, etc. You know better who they are.

Write down your step-by-step plan, with a timeline for each step. Don’t forget that the future horse and show budget is a huge part of the plan. Make your plan, budget and timeline flexible and adjustable, because realities will sometimes move things around. You can even do more than one plan, a perfect-ideal plan, and a this-seems-realistic plan.

Prioritize your communications for where to start, who should be the first to hear your goals (parents). Work forward step by step to then bring in the trainer(s), then the future barn manager. And so on. You know better how this needs to work in your situation.

Keep adjusting your goals, budget and timeline as you get more information at each step. But keep the “ideal” alongside for comparison to monitor how far the goal is drifting. In fact, you may need to have some conversations before you even start parts of your written plan.

Start over planning your future horse show life with no ties to the past. What is your ideal? How close can you reasonably come?

After all the pieces are arranged then you can then start the project of looking for a horse. That is the last piece of the puzzle to put into place, not the first. Because you need the right people to help you find the right horse. And at present, that isn’t what is happening. (Which is why you posted this question on COTH! lol )

As it is, you are trying to do the last step, the horse, first. Understandable, because finding a horse would make the goal look as if it is in sight – but if the other pieces aren’t in place, the goal will keep eluding you, even if you find a horse. And you may become attached to the ‘wrong’ horse, one that isn’t the one you should have bought.

I understand this may be new to you and that’s all the more reason to get the adults aligned into Your Team and working with you toward your goal.

Good luck! Please come back in a year and let us know how things are going for you!

[OverandOnward]

@NoSuchPerson

OK, I’ve just read through this whole thread. Maybe because I read it all at once, the oddities of the posts made by the OP really stood out. Pretty much every post contains something that is “off.” Wrong jargon, atypical phrasing, internal contradictions, word choice…

I disagree.

Linguistic styles between generations are diverging more and more, with shorter cycles for noticeable style changes.

Gen Alpha – under 20 years old, children of millenials – have a style that is distinctly different from what most of us are used to. Even from Gen Z.

Much of that is the usual coded language of teenagers. But it seems that they could make some significant changes to the way English is used and spoken in this country. Possibly.

Quote from the New York Times article gift linked below …

Welcome to the language of Gen Alpha, the cohort coming up right behind Gen Z. These children of millennials have begun a generational rite of passage — employing their own slang terms and memes, and befuddling their elders in the process.

They also use a lot of voice-to-text and don’t always check and edit the AI mistakes.

2 Gen Alphas tried to teach a millennial how to text without sounding old....

Online, members of Gen Z have begun to realize they are no longer the new kids on the digital block — and that Gen Alpha might be coming for them, in the same way that they had once gone after millennials

Gen Alpha Is Here. Can You Understand Their Slang?

[OverandOnward]

@Maythehorsebewithme

It almost sounds like it was written by ChatGPT.

A hallmark of Gen Alpha ‘writing’ style.

They use voice-to-text much more and don’t always edit it. Communications is far more condensed, dispensing with traditional sentence structure, grammar, and punctuation, to make it faster on a mobile device.

Traditional writing style is “for school” and should be left there, according to Gen Alpha.