I was reading a round up of last week’s events and was surprised to read that a rider earned a 5.7 at Ram Tap. So, I go and look at the scores and the entire division was pretty low scores. Most were in the teens and twenties. When I get in the twenties, I am ecstatic! What are your thoughts on this score?
It’s in an intro division (although most of the divisions with that same judge appear to be overall scored lower than the others). I recall being at a different HT (opposite coast) probably a decade ago now and one of our barn kids scored something like a 12 in intro/elementary/whatever on a pudgy no-neck pony. At that level I think some judges will score generously as long as all the basics are solid.
It was the Open Intro division which is the level below starter. It’s a great score but I don’t think you can infer much at that level. It’s an easy test and probably generous judging, plus the rider that won is a pro so that helps.
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Did any one else read the title and go “a 5? what’s the big deal? I’ve gotten a lot of 5’s, and 4’s and…” and then read the post and went “ooooo - not me, then, never mind, carry on”
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You weren’t the only one! 
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That judge is a NOTORIOUSLY low scorer. It drives me insane. I posted about this on my IG that weekend and I had several people reach out In agreement. One person said she saw a pretty bad test and commented the horse broke to the trot three times in the free walk and that horse still got a 20!!
I actually have an email to USEA to send about this. She is consistently scoring horses 10+ points lower than their average. I started drafting a spreadsheet to keep track of this last year when she scored a horse a 12 in one of the novice divisions. If you know what events she’s at and you look at scores, you can tell which divisions she scores. Imagine receiving a 25 dressage score and still sitting in 12th place.
Here is why I have issue with this, as it does not just affect the people in the division:
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Yes they’re all against each other but what about people on teams? Often teams will compete against each other. Say teams across all BN divisions - it includes open BN and BN rider which might have 2 different judges. Now these people are competing against each other with the dressage judging being so vastly different. Obviously discrepancies between judges happen, but 2-3 pt difference is wildly different than double digit point difference.
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It affects TIP awards at shows, where all TBs are slated against each other on an entire level. If you have a judge that is 10+ points off, suddenly that rail isn’t so influential anymore.
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dressage standards should be upheld and if judges are off by 10+ points, one of those judges has a misinterpretation.
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MERs. If you see a truly attrocious test get a 38 that another judge would’ve scored over a 45, suddenly this becomes a potential safety issue.
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Can skew sales horses record. Did the horse you’re looking at get a 25 in dressage to sit him in first place, or did your 25 put the horse at 16/17?
ETA - yes the horse who got a 5.7 was in intro but she scores this generously at all levels.
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I’m confused. By my understanding, an overall 20 is a very good score in Eventing dressage. Most average riders are in the 30s and even 40s. A 5 in dressage scoring is “adequate”, as in not terrible but not very good either. So is American scoring different?
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That is exactly how I read it, and then I realized that the 5 meant something totally different here.
In this case the final score for the entire test was 5 (or 5.7 I think). It wasn’t a score of 5 for one or two movement. So the equivalent of a 95% on a test in regular dressage scoring.
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Ahh, 5 as their final score would be quite extraordinary, given that the highest ever pure dressage score is 94.3% by Charlotte Dujardin with Valegro.
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It was in the Intro (starter) division. Walk, trot, and canter. Grasshopper is their division below Intro, that has the walk/trot test
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To put it in additional perspective, on this particular weekend this judge scored 5 divisions and 67 horses. The lowest score across 67 horses was a 33.2. Here is the break down of scores:
Under 10: 1
10.1-19.9: 13
20.0-29.9: 45
30-32.9: 7
33+: 1
The other 6 divisions that were judged by 2 different judges had 101 horses remaining and of those 101 horses, ten scored sub-30, and there were zero sub-20 scores.
I’m not claiming this break down to be statistically significant, but it sure is eye opening when you just sit down and look at the numbers.
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My then 9 year old daughter on my 16.3 TB earned a 9.5 in their green horn debut. They should have retired then and there!
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We had a charity show (if I remember correctly) in my area - unrecognized, Elementary through Novice. There was at least one Olympian acting as dressage judge and he was doing the same thing - really unrealistically low scores. I guess it’s fine as it is unrecognized and what not but I would have felt that the judge wasn’t really taking a critical eye to my test with scores like that. Did you even look or are you not taking this seriously? Because I am.
I also went to another unrecognized event and had the lowest score in my division…I was first to go in for dressage and the scores got progressively lower for each horse - progressive and systematically. That was also annoying - like OK, did you watch the tests or did someones say something to you? When you look at horse 1 - 38, horse 2 - 35, horse 3 - 33, horse 4 - 30…it doesn’t look good. And yes we all went clean so I ended in last place because I was the first to go in dressage.
I always love getting a really good score at a schooling show and then some railbird wanders in and says the judge was “generous” because it was “just a schooling show.”
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Maybe the meaning of “a pro” has changed since my day, but I’m having difficulty imagining Karen O’Connor entering into such a division.
The meaning of a pro is just anyone who gets paid to ride, train, or coach. There’s no requirement to show at a particular level, but IIRC from when I looked this particular rider had experience up to prelim. I assume she was there to build confidence or address issues in a young horse. The open divisions mean that anyone can enter, if that’s what she felt the horse needed I really don’t see anything wrong with it.
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Tamie Smith took a horse intro there, I believe it was last March. If the horse needs it the horse needs it. Absolutely lovely horse that just floated above the ground when it moved. She didn’t get a 5.7.
Personally I get more irritated when I see a trainer entering the rider division just because they can. Like, YES I understand what the rules say and that it is allowed, but it just rubs me the wrong way when I see an accomplished event trainer entering rider divisions.
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Boyd Martin just took a horse BN so I don’t have issues with a pro showing a green horse in the appropriate level and division.
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Ah!
